Keith Bogans to Cavs, Now Traded to Philly

[*L-Train*]

i thought this was the most interesting quote from Pluto's well written article:

Cavs General Manager David Griffin wants a player at mid-season to help who makes about $2 million

he probably came up with the 2mio number because that's the type of contract they could acquire without going over the tax line (which is critical, you want to avoid paying the luxury tax as long as possible).

there aren't a lot of Centers out there who make ~2Mio and could help us (most of them either make more or are minimum players who wouldn't even crack the rotation here). the most interesting name i found was Ronny Turiaf, he makes 1.5mio and the Wolves are pretty loaded at Center with Dieng, Pek and Fesenko (in fact it wouldn't surprise me if they try to trade Pek in February). oh and it's likely that they'll be bad so they might look to unload some of their veterans. Turiaf has had durability issues in the past but if he's healthy come February he might be the player they go after (signing Okafor might be another option).

 

[kovanovich]

Let's keep in mind, that cash isn't the only thing that can be used to acquire 2nd round picks.. You see teams pull off the "I'll trade you this guy's rights for a future 2nd" quite often.

Yes, it involves giving up a future 2nd, but there are multiple ways to acquire 2nd round picks without involving cash.

Also, not sure how you're not confident that, as long as LeBron is on this team, our 2nd round picks won't be in the 50-60 range..

Very few things I am confident about 3 years from now. So many things that no one can possibly predict could very well happen between now and then. Anyway, my larger argument is the opportunity cost of using the picks to grease other future moves. And as I said, I wasn't even against the trades, so long as they end up with a useable player or two.

 

[kovanovich]

i thought this was the most interesting quote from Pluto's well written article:



he probably came up with the 2mio number because that's the type of contract they could acquire without going over the tax line (which is critical, you want to avoid paying the luxury tax as long as possible).

there aren't a lot of Centers out there who make ~2Mio and could help us (most of them either make more or are minimum players who wouldn't even crack the rotation here). the most interesting name i found was Ronny Turiaf, he makes 1.5mio and the Wolves are pretty loaded at Center with Dieng, Pek and Fesenko (in fact it wouldn't surprise me if they try to trade Pek in February). oh and it's likely that they'll be bad so they might look to unload some of their veterans. Turiaf has had durability issues in the past but if he's healthy come February he might be the player they go after (signing Okafor might be another option).

This was a classic case where Pluto comes up with a number and we are left with wondering where he got it. I think you must be right that the $2M figure has to do with the luxury tax. Per my math, they can now, for instance, sign Ray Allen, keep Amundson (but none of the other camp invitees), AND use ~$2M of the TPE and still avoid the tax.

Who the target would be for the $2M is anyone's guess. Turiaf doesn't make a lot of sense because he is expiring, and thus the trade would offer them no financial relief for 2015-16, unless Minny just wants to save a little bit of money this year. It's not like the Cavs have a second round pick to sweeten the deal.

 

[Pioneer10]

So reading thru the thread this is what I got as positives and negatives (please feel free to correct me and I'll update)

Positives:
-We get below the luxury tax

-delays the dreaded repeater tax by one year
-allows us to use MLE next year if the TPE is not used​

-the TPE is more flexible then Bogans contract

-It can acquire cheaper contracts
-or it can be used all at once for up to 5.3 million which couldn't be done with the smaller 3 expiring Utah contracts
​

Negatives
-Can't be combined with Haywood's contract (mitigated somewhat by the fact we can still use Thompson or Waiters rookie deal to get a near max player. This is likely more realistic as well as the Cavs are unlikely to want to play for another expensive contract and keep both Thompson and Waiters after they get their pay raises)
-Lost Felix, Powell, and a bunch of second rounders

 

[Douglar]

And as I said, I wasn't even against the trades, so long as they end up with a useable player or two.

That's the key there. Getting a usable player. That's what this is all about, with some saving money sprinkled in there, because what boss would complain if you said "and I also saved you $4,000,000 in the process" ?)

So, yeah, if Griffin thinks he's got a way to convert last year's #34th pick, this year's #46th pick, and (what we hope will be) 4 late second round picks in the next 4 years into a usable player who doesn't have a horrific contract, by all means do it. If he pulls that off, he'll have come out ahead of the game.

But at this point, the team has essentially burned 5 or 6 second round picks depending on your point of view to get to this position which is still pretty far from "landed a decent player" And the clock is ticking. Most trade exceptions go unused. At what point would it have been better not to play this gambit and keep all the young guys with the hope that one of them works out?

* Staying under the Tax likely saves the team about a net $4,000,000

 

[col63onel]

That's the key there. Getting a usable player. That's what this is all about, with some saving money sprinkled in there, because what boss would complain if you said "and I also saved you $4,000,000 in the process" ?)

So, yeah, if Griffin thinks he's got a way to convert last year's #34th pick, this year's #46th pick, and (what we hope will be) 4 late second round picks in the next 4 years into a usable player who doesn't have a horrific contract, by all means do it. If he pulls that off, he'll have come out ahead of the game.

But at this point, the team has essentially burned 5 or 6 second round picks depending on your point of view to get to this position which is still pretty far from "landed a decent player" And the clock is ticking. Most trade exceptions go unused. At what point would it have been better not to play this gambit and keep all the young guys with the hope that one of them works out?

* Staying under the Tax likely saves the team about a net $4,000,000

We were never going to keep all of them. If we assume that Ray Allen will come aboard, that gives us 3 roster spots for 2nd rounders plus Amundson.

And many exceptions expire, but how many teams are in "title or bust" mode with an owner willing to spend? I think there is a better than average chance we use it.

 

[MoFlo]

So reading thru the thread this is what I got as positives and negatives (please feel free to correct me and I'll update)

Positives:
-We get below the luxury tax

-delays the dreaded repeater tax by one year
-allows us to use MLE next year if the TPE is not used​

-the TPE is more flexible then Bogans contract

-It can acquire cheaper contracts
-or it can be used all at once for up to 5.3 million which couldn't be done with the smaller 3 expiring Utah contracts
​

Negatives
-Can't be combined with Haywood's contract (mitigated somewhat by the fact we can still use Thompson or Waiters rookie deal to get a near max player. This is likely more realistic as well as the Cavs are unlikely to want to play for another expensive contract and keep both Thompson and Waiters after they get their pay raises)
-Lost Felix, Powell, and a bunch of second rounders

If losing 2 guys who would've been lucky to make the team and a bunch of 2nd rounders that are easily replaceable (evidenced by the fact that they change hands like crazy no matter the team or situation) is one of the two big negatives out of this, I'd call it a win 100 times out of 100.

 

[Cavsfan161]

Can't help but love the direction this franchise is heading

 

[Dungong]

Funny how with the new CBA, non-guaranteed contracts, draft rights, and trade exceptions are the new expiring contract - assets with value outside of anything basketball related.

 

[Green Lantern]

So Griff has been wheeling/dealing again since I left..now has traded Bogans for TPE.
I'm always leery of trading away picks and not having that amo later to use or even grab a player that falls into the second round.It does occasionally happen.
Thats also what I don't want the Cavs to miss out on.
But if dude can keep this machine humming with assets coming in..fine.

 

[LuNcHBoX]

I'm just curious as to why they moved him so suddenly. Since his contract was non-guaranteed anyway what was the rush to move him for a TE? Doesn't this limit their options now since you can't combine a TE and a player?

 

[Jack Brickman]

I'm just curious as to why they moved him so suddenly. Since his contract was non-guaranteed anyway what was the rush to move him for a TE? Doesn't this limit their options now since you can't combine a TE and a player?

Assuming we were planning to combine him with another player this year, then yes. I'm assuming that wasn't the plan, though.

It's pretty clear that we did this to dodge the luxury tax this season, which is smart. Our team is already stacked, so why push the looming repeater tax up a year when you don't have to? The exception has the added bonus of being able to be used on more than one player, which expands our flexibility in a way that Bogans alone did not.

 

[LuNcHBoX]

I'm not necessarily knocking this trade but unless they have something in the works right now it feels hasty to me.

 

[Green Lantern]

Now the Cavs are talking to Indy for Hibbert???
Just heard on KNR..Waiters/Haywood..

 

[catfish]

Now the Cavs are talking to Indy for Hibbert???
Just heard on KNR..Waiters/Haywood..

Already debunked.