Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[Marcus]

The only time I wouldn't do the trade as it stood would be the one time out of 100 that you could get Flip drunk and work the trade without Wiggins in it

I think everyone would have preferred that, but in the end that was the only way the deal was going to get done. In no way, shape, or form should an unproven rookie be the deal breaker when trying to acquire an All-Star PF who is widely regarded as the best in the league at his position and one of the best players in the league overall.

(Not saying that this is your position at all, obviously, just quoting your post to build upon. )

 

[Marcus]

If this team fails to reach it's ultimate goal, it's going to be because Kyrie and/or Dion don't grow up. Kyrie still doesn't like to pass the ball and Dion still likes to initiate the offense. They have to grow out of that. Kevin Love does need more inside touches. Granted, Memphis and Chicago are two teams where he doesn't have a great advantage inside. All of his 3 point shots are when he's backing up; those are not good shots. Our offense has not been playing inside out. Hopefully that will change. You would think at least one of LeBron/Love will have a post-up advantage every game.

All things considered, I'd say the offense is looking pretty good so far.

They put up 100+ ppg, shot it relatively well from 3 even with Mike Miller not finding his stroke, and they cleaned up the glass on both ends of the floor.

It's a matter of learning how to play with a dominant big man for the first time - neither of the aforementioned guards have played with a player of Love's caliber in the post before, let alone a player like LeBron.

I have confidence that they will. Waiters took a few ill-advised shots but the trend that I noticed was how unselfish the team in general was playing. Kyrie was prone to hero ball at times but that is something that will dissipate the more confidence he gains in his teammates.

 

[stowfan]

Anyone remember this?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kstHgDYFiA4

 

[Bandwagoner305]

If this team fails to reach it's ultimate goal, it's going to be because Kyrie and/or Dion don't grow up. Kyrie still doesn't like to pass the ball and Dion still likes to initiate the offense. They have to grow out of that. Kevin Love does need more inside touches. Granted, Memphis and Chicago are two teams where he doesn't have a great advantage inside. All of his 3 point shots are when he's backing up; those are not good shots. Our offense has not been playing inside out. Hopefully that will change. You would think at least one of LeBron/Love will have a post-up advantage every game.

^This.

Bottom line, Kyrie and Dion have no business taking shots and playing like they're still the best scoring options on the team. LeBron/Love are good at posting up and the closer they are to the rim, the easier they'll score. Efficiency matters.

In order for Cavs to be an efficient shooting championship contending team like Miami, Spurs, etc, were over the last four years, the best efficient scorers will have to get more touches and some fans on here think it's unreasonable to criticize Kyrie and Dion and take offense to that, but It's definitely a red flag. People know they're talented, but those two do have habits of wanting to look for their own shots and not get their teammates involved enough.

They're saying all the right things for now about how they want to play more unselfishly, but action speaks louder than words. The team will be better off with them taking lesser shots than LeBron/Love, It's that simple.

 

[Kizzle]

It seems like the biggest adjustment that Dion & Kyrie need to make is when it comes to them initiating the offense & not being able to beat their guy off the dribble right off the bat. That's when it seems like the ball sticks and Kyrie get tunnel vision/Dion forces something. Other than that, both seem perfectly willing to move the ball, make the extra pass, and drive & dish. Between Blatt, LeBron, the vets, and Love himself, I fully expect them to make the necessary adjustments and get Love involved the way he should be.

It seems like the biggest adjustment that Dion & Kyrie need to make is when it comes to them initiating the offense & not being able to beat their guy off the dribble right off the bat. That's when it seems like the ball sticks and Kyrie get tunnel vision/Dion forces something. Other than that, both seem perfectly willing to move the ball, make the extra pass, and drive & dish. Between Blatt, LeBron, the vets, and Love himself, I fully expect them to make the necessary adjustments and get Love involved the way he should be.

 

[wremy]

It's kind of funny though. Kyrie



^This.

Bottom line, Kyrie and Dion have no business taking shots and playing like they're still the best scoring options on the team. LeBron/Love are good at posting up and the closer they are to the rim, the easier they'll score. Efficiency matters.

In order for Cavs to be an efficient shooting championship contending team like Miami, Spurs, etc, were over the last four years, the best efficient scorers will have to get more touches and some fans on here think it's unreasonable to criticize Kyrie and Dion and take offense to that, but It's definitely a red flag. People know they're talented, but those two do have habits of wanting to look for their own shots and not get their teammates involved enough.

They're saying all the right things for now about how they want to play more unselfishly, but action speaks louder than words. The team will be better off with them taking lesser shots than LeBron/Love, It's that simple.

My fav 2 players in the league the last few years were Kyrie and Love... I have no problem with Kyrie shooting.. he is 1 of the best shooters in the league.. Love should maybe have a few more shots because Kyrie should set him up.. Love in the post should be used a lot.. he is a great passer and the offense even with movement could run through him well.. I think by the end of the year this team will be excellent and playing good team ball

 

[gratefuldead]

imo offense should run through love and he should take the most shots

then lebron

then kyrie

then dion

lebron should allow love to do the heavy lifting on O, first to conserve himself for the D we will need and 2nd to preserve himself for the post season.

 

[Zen]

^This.

Bottom line, Kyrie and Dion have no business taking shots and playing like they're still the best scoring options on the team. LeBron/Love are good at posting up and the closer they are to the rim, the easier they'll score. Efficiency matters.

In order for Cavs to be an efficient shooting championship contending team like Miami, Spurs, etc, were over the last four years, the best efficient scorers will have to get more touches and some fans on here think it's unreasonable to criticize Kyrie and Dion and take offense to that, but It's definitely a red flag. People know they're talented, but those two do have habits of wanting to look for their own shots and not get their teammates involved enough.

They're saying all the right things for now about how they want to play more unselfishly, but action speaks louder than words. The team will be better off with them taking lesser shots than LeBron/Love, It's that simple.

Kyrie in my opinion is a legitimate all-star level player and with the eye test at 22 years old he could potentially become one of the best players in the game. I don't mind if hes taking shots over Love, they are interchangeable. While I like a lot of things Dion does he is certainly not on that level.

Just to be clear I think Kevin Love is a fantastic player and this isn't discrediting his skill in anyway.

Focusing on shots through pre-season is really an exercise in futility. We won't see how this offense is really going to run for at least 4 months, and it wont be fine tuned for over a year.

 

[winner0274]

^This.

Bottom line, Kyrie and Dion have no business taking shots and playing like they're still the best scoring options on the team. LeBron/Love are good at posting up and the closer they are to the rim, the easier they'll score. Efficiency matters.

In order for Cavs to be an efficient shooting championship contending team like Miami, Spurs, etc, were over the last four years, the best efficient scorers will have to get more touches and some fans on here think it's unreasonable to criticize Kyrie and Dion and take offense to that, but It's definitely a red flag. People know they're talented, but those two do have habits of wanting to look for their own shots and not get their teammates involved enough.

They're saying all the right things for now about how they want to play more unselfishly, but action speaks louder than words. The team will be better off with them taking lesser shots than LeBron/Love, It's that simple.

Kyrie is one of the best scoring options in the entire league and his ability to get to the rim and finish is elite... I don't understand how you can put Kyrie on Dion's level when he is up there with Lebron and Love when it comes to scoring.

 

[cavsfever]

Kyrie in my opinion is a legitimate all-star level player and with the eye test at 22 years old he could potentially become one of the best players in the game. I don't mind if hes taking shots over Love, they are interchangeable. While I like a lot of things Dion does he is certainly not on that level.

You're right that Kyrie is an elite level offensive talent, but Kyrie's shots are not 'interchangeable' with shots for Love or for Lebron for that matter. The offense works differently when Kyrie is dominating the ball. Getting your teammates involved changes the flow of the game in all kinds of ways, and great players learn to take responsibility for doing that.

 

[Cavsfan161]

Kyrie shouldn't be taking more shots than love. If he is then I'm not sure we will be as successful as we should be.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

LeBron has won on a team of stars. It will take some time for Love, Kyrie and Dion to better understand that being a dominant team does not mean that everyone will have elite stats.

 

[Bandwagoner305]

Kyrie is one of the best scoring options in the entire league and his ability to get to the rim and finish is elite... I don't understand how you can put Kyrie on Dion's level when he is up there with Lebron and Love when it comes to scoring.

He's not up with LeBron. LeBron can average 25+ PPG on fewer FGA, whereas, Kyrie needs more FGA in order to average 25+ PPG. Last year, Kyrie averaged 20.8 PPG on 17.4 FGA. LeBron averaged 27.1 PPG on 17.6 FGA.

That's a 6.3 PPG difference on just 0.2 more FGA per game. Huge difference, they aren't in the same level when it comes to doing more with less. Efficiency matters.

Stephen Curry is another example of a good scorer who can score, but not quite as efficiently as LeBron. Last year, he averaged 24 PPG on 17.7 FGA, better than Kyrie, but LeBron still averaged more PPG on the same amount of FGA.

Actually going by total points and FGA, Curry took 30 more FGA than LeBron, but LeBron scored 216 more points. Kyrie is a good scorer, but he'd probably have to average 22+ FGA just to average 27 PPG, he's just not as good as LeBron and Durant are at scoring more points on less shots. There's levels to this shit!

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Lebrons more efficient than Kyrie? Who would have thought.

 

[blommen]

He's not up with LeBron. LeBron can average 25+ PPG on fewer FGA, whereas, Kyrie needs more FGA in order to average 25+ PPG. Last year, Kyrie averaged 20.8 PPG on 17.4 FGA. LeBron averaged 27.1 PPG on 17.6 FGA.

That's a 6.3 PPG difference on just 0.2 more FGA per game. Huge difference, they aren't in the same level when it comes to doing more with less. Efficiency matters.

Stephen Curry is another example of a good scorer who can score, but not quite as efficiently as LeBron. Last year, he averaged 24 PPG on 17.7 FGA, better than Kyrie, but LeBron still averaged more PPG on the same amount of FGA.

Actually going by total points and FGA, Curry took 30 more FGA than LeBron, but LeBron scored 216 more points. Kyrie is a good scorer, but he'd probably have to average 22+ FGA just to average 27 PPG, he's just not as good as LeBron and Durant are at scoring more points on less shots. There's levels to this shit!

there is also something to be said about opportunities and shot quality in this though. While i agree with that LeBron is far more efficient than Kyrie and quite possibly the most efficient perimeter scorer of all time, he's also had the luxury of playing with some far more talented players on offense than Kyrie which not only put him in more situations where giving up the ball was a smarter offensive play but also allowed him to pick his spots more. 7 out of 10 times Kyrie had the ball in his hands on offense you could make the argument that him finding an getting his own shot was the optimal offensive option, especially when you consider the downright sickening offensive "systems" we've seen him play in. therefore it's tough to truly guage his shooting efficiency because it has obviously been stiffled by being in such a shitty situation.

I agree to a certain extent Kyrie shouldn't be taking as many shots as Love since he technically is our point guard and traditionally would be in charge of distributing the ball instead of shooting it, but at the same time if he's open do i really want him to pass up that opportunity? not really, the kid is an amazing shooter, the most versatile scorer at his position in the league. I want him to take what the defense gives him, if it really is the optimal offensive option in that particular possession, fucking go for it, you young studmuffin. Our offense is centered around getting the ball to whomever has the best chance of scoring and since we have 3 legit first options on our team we are obviously going to be debating this a lot since there will almost always be a case to be made for getting the ball to another guy. I don't really care about that honestly, as long as we get the best look. If it's Love, get it to Love, if it's Kyrie, get it to Kyrie, if it's Dion, get it Ball hard, if it's LeBron, get it to LeBron. Hell, if it's Haywood, get that orange son of a bitch to Haywood.

We are so fortunate that we have so many good to great scorers as it allows us to take whatever the Defense gives us, and believe me: the defense will be giving us something. We are simply too talented for any team to close off everything. Double teaming basically any single player in our starting five is an automatic high percentage open look, not only because our team is filled to the brim with great shooters and scorers but because we have so many great passers as well. Shit I've been preaching for quite some time now that Kyrie and Dion is the best passing backcourt in the league and LeBron and Love are both easily the best passers at their position. It's all about installing the offense and getting comfortable with it and the moment everything clicks we are going to be nigh unstoppable on offense.