Love/Wiggins Trade Revisited

[LeShaq]

JR Smith hit 7-9 threes against the Bucks today.

The most threes Wiggins has hit in a game this year is 4.

Smith career 3pt shooting = .371

Wiggins rookie 3pt shooting = .324

As we have seen with Love (.362 career 3pt shooter), you can never underestimate the value of offensive spacing. And that is particularly true on a team built around Lebron.

Great job by JR today (23/3/4 on 8-11 FGA). That's just the kind of efficient, marksman performance we need from our shooting guard.

 

[Jordan]

Guys, nobody is saying you don't make the trade when given the chance. With that said, if Love leaves after the season and we don't win a title the trade is a failure.

 

[Taiter]

One question presented about Wiggins by scouts before the draft was whether he had the aggressiveness to be a leader, that he had games where he was very passive. In the last Cavs/Wolves game I recall that he was dominant for much of the game but then the Cavs just took him completely out of the game in the 4th quarter. Point is that some of this isn't just skill, it's also bound up in personality and the inner fire to get better.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

One question presented about Wiggins by scouts before the draft was whether he had the aggressiveness to be a leader, that he had games where he was very passive. In the last Cavs/Wolves game I recall that he was dominant for much of the game but then the Cavs just took him completely out of the game in the 4th quarter. Point is that some of this isn't just skill, it's also bound up in personality and the inner fire to get better.

Yep. The other reason why I don't see him becoming a Top 5-ish player is because he looks to be a little one dimensional. He doesn't rebound particularly well and his assist numbers are very low. Even his defense has been a little underwhelming compared to the expectations of him on that side of the ball. It kinda seems like the only thing he's been able to do so far is score. Yes he's a rookie but look at the rookie seasons of current top players and you see that they showed more all-around game than Wiggins has.

 

[Simmy]

The only way to revisit this trade IMO:

• Do we end up making moves for JR, Shump and Moz (season-changing trades) with a team that has Andrew Wiggins instead of Kevin Love?

I'd think not. People continue to forget "fit." Andrew Wiggins is a good player. He'll undoubtedly be a great player for a very long time. But a team that featured Andrew Wiggins would not have encouraged the moves for at least Iman and JR. Will Andrew Wiggins be a better player than Iman or JR by the end of his career? Undoubtedly so. But would he have provided the kind of "fit" that the Cavs so desperately needed to re-ignite their season and essentially transform into a 'the whole is greater than the sum of the parts' kind of team?

The answer there, given the circumstances, seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Randolphkeys]

It has become clear that Grant was pretty decent at accumulating assets, but the art of assembling parts that fit together weren't his strength. Griffin seemed to be in Gilbert's ear about a lot of moves and has shown that he is indeed pretty talented at assembling a team. Griffin might be willing to give more in the trade to get that part than Grant would have been, but knows which parts are A+ fits and he goes after them aggressively rather than settling for a B+ fit while winning the trade.

I called him a Frank Underwood personality for how he has risen from just some guy to his current position as GM.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Guys, nobody is saying you don't make the trade when given the chance. With that said, if Love leaves after the season and we don't win a title the trade is a failure.

Yes, if the thing most unlikely to happen happens, it will be a failure.

The thing people keep ignoring in this discussion is the ginormous pile of money Kevin would have to give up.

Unless Kevin is allergic to large piles of money, I would assume he'll be here for at least one more year.

There's really only one incredibly horrible outcome, as broken down below (most likely-least likely).

1. Picks up player option, signs extension next year.
2. Picks up player option, plays next year, expresses desire to S&T after next season ends (2016).
3. Picks up player option, expresses desire to be traded after this season ends (2015).
4. Picks up player option, expresses desire to be traded after this season ends (2015), with a willingness to extend with his new team.
5. Signs a long term extension this year.
6. Declines player option, doesn't give a shit about money, heads to FA.

I'm sure I'm missing something but only #6 truly fucks us. If any of the others happen, it's fine.

Do I want to have to trade him? Well, no but too many people are latching on to the least likely thing. Would it be horrible? Sure. Is it likely, it really just is not. There's too many things like birth rights, additional money / years and few other winning situations that are working against it happening.

 

[TitleTown]

Love is NOT leaving this year.

BUT the question is whether or not the Cavs trade Love at next year's deadline?

He needs us as much as we need him--IF he wants to get paid.

There are a couple trade scenarios with Boston that look appealing.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Love is NOT leaving this year.

BUT the question is whether or not the Cavs trade Love at next year's deadline?

He needs us as much as we need him--IF he wants to get paid.

There are a couple trade scenarios with Boston that look appealing.

I think it is going to be really hard to move him at the deadline next year.

He's entering his prime and playing for his first and last massive contract.

We'll be getting a highly motivated All-Star level player who's aware he needs to just absolutely sell out.

My guess is he'll figure out a way to make it work given how much is on the line for him.

 

[TitleTown]

Love is NOT leaving this year.

BUT the question is whether or not the Cavs trade Love at next year's deadline. He needs us as much as we need him. There are a couple trade scenarios with Boston that look appealing.

I think it is going to be really hard to move him at the deadline next year.

He's entering his prime and playing for his first and last massive contract.

We'll be getting a highly motivated All-Star level player who's aware he needs to just absolutely sell out.

My guess is he'll figure out a way to make it work given how much is on the line for him.

Not if he makes his intentions known like he did last time. It seems like more players are going this route since the whole "The Decision" thing LeBron did.

 

[Pioneer10]

Wiggins has put up some really mediocre production when he has talent around him and his potential really has shown by far the brightest when the TWolves have been hurt and their young guns are getting pasted. If he was on the Cavs, my bets are there would have been a loud clamor about how we were wasting Lebron's prime.

Our bigs would have AV (hurt), TT, and ?. Looks like we would have been able to move Waiters for Moz. Could we have gotten an additional big of the quality of JR Smith/Shumpert? Wiggins would have been the starter I'm presuming, so we'd still an additional wing as well with Marion's aging/health.

Honestly, at least for this year it has worked remarkably well for us. Mozgov is easily a starter caliber on a title contending team. Shumpert is a great 3 and D guy (what we would have expected from Wiggins) and I can't speak enough about Smith. Adding a guy who is playing at the level of when he won 6th man of the year and giving us essentially Kyle Korver to go along with our big 3 has been a revelation

 

[All4One1ForAll]

Wiggins has put up some really mediocre production when he has talent around him and his potential really has shown by far the brightest when the TWolves have been hurt and their young guns are getting pasted. If he was on the Cavs, my bets are there would have been a loud clamor about how we were wasting Lebron's prime.

Our bigs would have AV (hurt), TT, and ?. Looks like we would have been able to move Waiters for Moz. Could we have gotten an additional big of the quality of JR Smith/Shumpert? Wiggins would have been the starter I'm presuming, so we'd still an additional wing as well with Marion's aging/health.

Honestly, at least for this year it has worked remarkably well for us. Mozgov is easily a starter caliber on a title contending team. Shumpert is a great 3 and D guy (what we would have expected from Wiggins) and I can't speak enough about Smith. Adding a guy who is playing at the level of when he won 6th man of the year and giving us essentially Kyle Korver to go along with our big 3 has been a revelation

Plus, if Wiggins were on the Cavs, he would be putting up 12-13~ish points a game on below average efficiency by NBA standards while Love would be putting up around 26/12/4 on Minny and everybody would be saying that the Cavs were stupid for not making the trade. Either way, we would "lose" in people's eyes.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Guys, nobody is saying you don't make the trade when given the chance. With that said, if Love leaves after the season and we don't win a title the trade is a failure.

This is the ultimate "no shit" post of the year.

 

[Jordan]

This is the ultimate "no shit" post of the year.

My issue was people were creating strawmen of a few other poster's and my own argument so I wanted to clarify.

Also, to assume that Love will not walk sounds even sillier than when people made the same assumption about Lebron. It may be "worst-case" analysis but both local and national media have reported that Love is not super happy in Cleveland. So my question is, if members of this board cannot engage in "worst-case" analysis, then can someone post a list of topics that we are allowed to discuss?

 

[Green Lantern]

It has become clear that Grant was pretty decent at accumulating assets, but the art of assembling parts that fit together weren't his strength. Griffin seemed to be in Gilbert's ear about a lot of moves and has shown that he is indeed pretty talented at assembling a team. Griffin might be willing to give more in the trade to get that part than Grant would have been, but knows which parts are A+ fits and he goes after them aggressively rather than settling for a B+ fit while winning the trade.

I called him a Frank Underwood personality for how he has risen from just some guy to his current position as GM.

It seemed at first that Griffin was good as Grant was talking about fit.
But Grant never seemed to know how to fit pieces together.
SG/PF/C were two areas he was weak IMO to get the right types of players.
Griffin had a plan and executed it and it shows.