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MLB - Trade Rumors and Speculation
- Thread starter Steve_424
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CavsFinals2016
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Who said it was a joke?
Chris
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I caught on that you were saying we are only well-respected by the men in the high towers and not the players who actually play the game about twenty posts ago. I was kind of hoping you had some sort of information on how players thought of the organization (probably not very high opinions) but you don't seem to know, and seem to attribute everything to players just not wanting to play in a rust belt city.
AZ_
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Chris Perez pretty much summed it up adequately IMO...
In terms of least favorite to visit on a road trip, Cleveland and Detroit blow away the competition.
BMAN
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Honestly, I would recommend reading the articles and everything posted on his website. They do a great job in my opinion of covering the Indians minor league system. They seem to think we have a bunch of high upside guys in the lower levels and like you said, have some ammo to get a trade or two done.
sjeppe
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It also got us Carlos Carrasco who was pitching pretty good last year until he got injured.
Nom
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I do enjoy the tightrope of saying Chris Perez has no idea what he is talking about in terms of players wanting to play in Cleveland because of fans...
...and Justin Upton's inclusion of Cleveland on his no-trade clause as being a referendum on ownership.
...and Justin Upton's inclusion of Cleveland on his no-trade clause as being a referendum on ownership.
The Indians need to send Carlos Santana to the minor leagues
Published: Wednesday, July 18, 2012
By Jim Ingraham
JIngraham@News-Herald.com
It’s time for the Indians to play hardball with Carlos Santana or significantly lower the expectations and projections on what kind of player he ultimately will be.
Because the status quo isn’t working. For anyone.
When Santana reached the big leagues with the Indians in June 2010, the comparison most frequently used — pie in the sky though it may seem now — was Victor Martinez.
Two and a half years later, Santana is trending more toward Henry Blanco.
It’s time for the Indians to get Santana’s attention.
It’s time for them to option him to Triple-A Columbus.
Some call it big league-itis. Its most glaring symptom is a young player still not fully established as a major-leaguer thinking he is. We’ve seen this before with the Indians, and it wasn’t that long ago. It also wasn’t pretty.
At the All-Star break in 2003, Brandon Phillips, who at the time was every bit the equal of Santana as a can’t-miss minor-league phenom, was hitting .210 with four home runs and 24 RBI.
As deep into that season as June 7, Phillips was hitting .195 — but was still the everyday starter for the Indians at second base, all the way through the All-Star break. Phillips’ problem then was the same as Santana’s now — an inability or a refusal to make any adjustments.
For this, each player was only partly at fault. An equal amount of the blame goes to the Indians, because in each case, the organization did nothing to send the message to the player that his approach to hitting was unacceptable.
Consequently, both players continued to struggle, their stubbornness undoubtedly fueled by the thought process: “Hey, I’m still in the big leagues, so I must be doing something right.”
Wrong.
Wrong thinking by the player, wrong handling by the team.
The Indians finally demoted Phillips to the minor leagues after the All-Star break, but only after Manager Eric Wedge’s legendary patience had expired. Additionally, Wedge’s sense of professionalism was so insulted by the arrogance of Phillips that the Indians eventually compounded the problem by releasing Phillips the following spring — only to watch him become a Gold Glove winning, All-Star caliber second baseman with Cincinnati.
Santana isn’t as cocky or flamboyant as Phillips, but Santana’s major-league career has stalled at just about the same stage as did Phillips’. Unlike Phillips, the Indians lavished a five-year, $20 million contract on Santana in April of this year.
He hasn’t hit a home run at home since. Prior to Tuesday, he had hit .220 since signing the contract, with three home runs and 26 RBI in 236 at-bats.
At the All-Star break last year, Santana was only hitting .230, but he had 13 home runs, 41 RBI, a .363 on-base percentage and a .418 slugging percentage.
At the All-Star break this year, Santana was hitting .221 with five homers, 30 RBI, a .339 on-base percentage and .336 slugging percentage.
Did the new contract, and the lifetime security it helps ensure, make Santana too comfortable? It’s a question that begs asking by Santana’s meager statistics since.
Another potential conclusion to draw is Santana simply isn’t very coachable. All struggling young hitters are urged by their coaches to make adjustments. Some do. Some don’t. Those who don’t either don’t because they can’t or won’t.
That, it seems, is where the Indians are with Santana now.
Since June 1 (prior to Tuesday), he’s hitting .186 with no home runs and six RBI in 29 games.
This is a player who is supposed to be the team’s No. 4 or 5 hitter.
So is Santana unable or unwilling to make the necessary adjustments that will allow him to become the elite hitter in the major leagues his minor-league track record suggests he could become?
Manager Manny Acta dropped him to the No. 7 spot in the order (though he was bumped up to No. 6 on Tuesday), perhaps hoping to get Santana’s attention. The next, most logical step, and I wouldn’t wait long, would be a trip to Columbus for the 26-year-old catcher. It doesn’t have to be a long stay in the minors. But it seems like a move worth making.
Perhaps it would serve as a wakeup call for Santana that his current approach isn’t working, and he needs to make some adjustments to earn a trip back to Cleveland.
This would not be a case of the Indians giving up on Santana. It would be a case of them trying to open his eyes and his mind toward being more willing to changing his approach to hitting.
If that doesn’t work, then perhaps some re-evaluation would be in order. Because then the reality could be the catcher the Indians thought could be the next Victor Martinez might instead be merely the next Henry Blanco.
Published: Wednesday, July 18, 2012
By Jim Ingraham
JIngraham@News-Herald.com
It’s time for the Indians to play hardball with Carlos Santana or significantly lower the expectations and projections on what kind of player he ultimately will be.
Because the status quo isn’t working. For anyone.
When Santana reached the big leagues with the Indians in June 2010, the comparison most frequently used — pie in the sky though it may seem now — was Victor Martinez.
Two and a half years later, Santana is trending more toward Henry Blanco.
It’s time for the Indians to get Santana’s attention.
It’s time for them to option him to Triple-A Columbus.
Some call it big league-itis. Its most glaring symptom is a young player still not fully established as a major-leaguer thinking he is. We’ve seen this before with the Indians, and it wasn’t that long ago. It also wasn’t pretty.
At the All-Star break in 2003, Brandon Phillips, who at the time was every bit the equal of Santana as a can’t-miss minor-league phenom, was hitting .210 with four home runs and 24 RBI.
As deep into that season as June 7, Phillips was hitting .195 — but was still the everyday starter for the Indians at second base, all the way through the All-Star break. Phillips’ problem then was the same as Santana’s now — an inability or a refusal to make any adjustments.
For this, each player was only partly at fault. An equal amount of the blame goes to the Indians, because in each case, the organization did nothing to send the message to the player that his approach to hitting was unacceptable.
Consequently, both players continued to struggle, their stubbornness undoubtedly fueled by the thought process: “Hey, I’m still in the big leagues, so I must be doing something right.”
Wrong.
Wrong thinking by the player, wrong handling by the team.
The Indians finally demoted Phillips to the minor leagues after the All-Star break, but only after Manager Eric Wedge’s legendary patience had expired. Additionally, Wedge’s sense of professionalism was so insulted by the arrogance of Phillips that the Indians eventually compounded the problem by releasing Phillips the following spring — only to watch him become a Gold Glove winning, All-Star caliber second baseman with Cincinnati.
Santana isn’t as cocky or flamboyant as Phillips, but Santana’s major-league career has stalled at just about the same stage as did Phillips’. Unlike Phillips, the Indians lavished a five-year, $20 million contract on Santana in April of this year.
He hasn’t hit a home run at home since. Prior to Tuesday, he had hit .220 since signing the contract, with three home runs and 26 RBI in 236 at-bats.
At the All-Star break last year, Santana was only hitting .230, but he had 13 home runs, 41 RBI, a .363 on-base percentage and a .418 slugging percentage.
At the All-Star break this year, Santana was hitting .221 with five homers, 30 RBI, a .339 on-base percentage and .336 slugging percentage.
Did the new contract, and the lifetime security it helps ensure, make Santana too comfortable? It’s a question that begs asking by Santana’s meager statistics since.
Another potential conclusion to draw is Santana simply isn’t very coachable. All struggling young hitters are urged by their coaches to make adjustments. Some do. Some don’t. Those who don’t either don’t because they can’t or won’t.
That, it seems, is where the Indians are with Santana now.
Since June 1 (prior to Tuesday), he’s hitting .186 with no home runs and six RBI in 29 games.
This is a player who is supposed to be the team’s No. 4 or 5 hitter.
So is Santana unable or unwilling to make the necessary adjustments that will allow him to become the elite hitter in the major leagues his minor-league track record suggests he could become?
Manager Manny Acta dropped him to the No. 7 spot in the order (though he was bumped up to No. 6 on Tuesday), perhaps hoping to get Santana’s attention. The next, most logical step, and I wouldn’t wait long, would be a trip to Columbus for the 26-year-old catcher. It doesn’t have to be a long stay in the minors. But it seems like a move worth making.
Perhaps it would serve as a wakeup call for Santana that his current approach isn’t working, and he needs to make some adjustments to earn a trip back to Cleveland.
This would not be a case of the Indians giving up on Santana. It would be a case of them trying to open his eyes and his mind toward being more willing to changing his approach to hitting.
If that doesn’t work, then perhaps some re-evaluation would be in order. Because then the reality could be the catcher the Indians thought could be the next Victor Martinez might instead be merely the next Henry Blanco.
I would love to use him as a trade piece.
I would think other teams still hold a decent value to him.
I have no problem seeing Marson become the everyday catcher until Chen or whatever his name is, is ready for his shot.
If Santana could be the "Piece" in a deal for a Greinke, Upton or Stanton....I am all in.
Could even try doing a Colon type deal where he nets us a haul of prospects.
I would think other teams still hold a decent value to him.
I have no problem seeing Marson become the everyday catcher until Chen or whatever his name is, is ready for his shot.
If Santana could be the "Piece" in a deal for a Greinke, Upton or Stanton....I am all in.
Could even try doing a Colon type deal where he nets us a haul of prospects.
JMcCurry08
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If we threw in Santana for a deal to get someone like Grienke for a playoff run and still have good prospects to go get Soriano or any other good bat. I would praise the FO
Huber.
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They moved Chun Chen to first base. They need to move him back to catching.
