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Rating Coach Scott (WE WANT WITTMAN BACK !!!)
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Hydroponic3385
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
Scott made a nice adjustment with spacing out Kyrie/Dion tonight. Was there ever a moment where at least 1 of them were not on the floor in the 2nd half? If there was, it was brief.
Scott made a nice adjustment with spacing out Kyrie/Dion tonight. Was there ever a moment where at least 1 of them were not on the floor in the 2nd half? If there was, it was brief.
Henry Tuttle
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
Nope. Starters played whole 3rd, Dion started the 4th, and then Kyrie spelled him at the 7 minute mark or so.
Nope. Starters played whole 3rd, Dion started the 4th, and then Kyrie spelled him at the 7 minute mark or so.
Hydroponic3385
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
And yet people will still bitch about Dion not playing enough, or not having 1 of them on the floor at all times.
And yet people will still bitch about Dion not playing enough, or not having 1 of them on the floor at all times.
Rich
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
And yet, simply having to play the likes of Jon Leuer, Luke Walton, and Samardo Samuels still overwhelmed the starters extra minutes. It's just the way it is right now.
And yet, simply having to play the likes of Jon Leuer, Luke Walton, and Samardo Samuels still overwhelmed the starters extra minutes. It's just the way it is right now.
Numbers Guy
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
We have to compete at the very least.. I'm sure the starters are thrilled to see the bench bunch get destroyed consistently by double digits. They then have to fight back the rest of the game to get it back.
We have to compete at the very least.. I'm sure the starters are thrilled to see the bench bunch get destroyed consistently by double digits. They then have to fight back the rest of the game to get it back.
Numbers Guy
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
I disagree.. I have them playing roughly 18 minutes together.. that is most of Waiters minutes and roughly half of Kyries. The Heat almost always have Wade or LeBron on the floor during the game, same with the Thunder etc. You have to have one of your best players on the floor at all times if you plan on competing.
I disagree.. I have them playing roughly 18 minutes together.. that is most of Waiters minutes and roughly half of Kyries. The Heat almost always have Wade or LeBron on the floor during the game, same with the Thunder etc. You have to have one of your best players on the floor at all times if you plan on competing.
mrbeaks
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
There is simply not enough talent on the bench for this team to compete. End of discussion. Mix and match Kyrie/AV/Dion with these scrubs all you want, it won't matter. This team is in a painful part of the rebuild, and we have to live with that. Calling for Scott's head at this point is just ignorant.
Thirty-six minutes for Dion tonight. Pretty sure that's the league high for a rookie this year. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
There is simply not enough talent on the bench for this team to compete. End of discussion. Mix and match Kyrie/AV/Dion with these scrubs all you want, it won't matter. This team is in a painful part of the rebuild, and we have to live with that. Calling for Scott's head at this point is just ignorant.
Thirty-six minutes for Dion tonight. Pretty sure that's the league high for a rookie this year. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Numbers Guy
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
You are indeed wrong.. Lillard actually averages over 36 a game. But thats not the point. The point is we want to see the team compete.. our starters can compete with most teams in the league.. but when you open the 2nd quarter with our bench.. the game is over.
If we are consistently getting blown out and attempting come backs every night after 18 minutes in.. we aren't developing our players. I don't expect many more wins to come out of mix matching rotations.. but it allows us at least a chance at a win.
You are indeed wrong.. Lillard actually averages over 36 a game. But thats not the point. The point is we want to see the team compete.. our starters can compete with most teams in the league.. but when you open the 2nd quarter with our bench.. the game is over.
If we are consistently getting blown out and attempting come backs every night after 18 minutes in.. we aren't developing our players. I don't expect many more wins to come out of mix matching rotations.. but it allows us at least a chance at a win.
Giambiwannabe7
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
This is a great point. Our offense flows so much better at the beginning of games, or when we happen to still be in the game afterwards. But, once the bench has put us behind the 8 ball, we tend to see more freelancing and one on one stuff. This bench bunch is the worst in the NBA.
This is a great point. Our offense flows so much better at the beginning of games, or when we happen to still be in the game afterwards. But, once the bench has put us behind the 8 ball, we tend to see more freelancing and one on one stuff. This bench bunch is the worst in the NBA.
Hydroponic3385
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
Our bench blows, but shockingly it's NOT the worst (kind of unbelievable to say that, but it's true). That would be Portland. They have Meyers Leonard and...well, no one else. We at least have Zeller & Gibson. Portland's bench was outscored 60-4 against San Antonio the other night. :chuckles:
EDIT: And to demonstrate my point further, the Blazers starters had a 15-point lead against the Kings a bit ago. After just several minutes, their bench bunch blew it and the Blazers were down 2 mid-way through the quarter. :chuckles:
EDIT 2: Sasha is their 7th man.
Our bench blows, but shockingly it's NOT the worst (kind of unbelievable to say that, but it's true). That would be Portland. They have Meyers Leonard and...well, no one else. We at least have Zeller & Gibson. Portland's bench was outscored 60-4 against San Antonio the other night. :chuckles:
EDIT: And to demonstrate my point further, the Blazers starters had a 15-point lead against the Kings a bit ago. After just several minutes, their bench bunch blew it and the Blazers were down 2 mid-way through the quarter. :chuckles:
EDIT 2: Sasha is their 7th man.
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mrbeaks
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
Right. Lillard. Well, he's easily the furthest along of the rooks (and two years older than Waiters).
This aside, look at the garbage the Cavs are throwing out on the court. There's no one outside of Zeller on the bench to develop. Leuer? Sloan? Samuels? They'll all be out of the NBA in five years. When Zeller returns, I think things will get a little better, but he wouldn't have been the difference against the Nets.
There is nothing to be done. And if you think it's bad now, wait until the Cavs trade AV.
Right. Lillard. Well, he's easily the furthest along of the rooks (and two years older than Waiters).
This aside, look at the garbage the Cavs are throwing out on the court. There's no one outside of Zeller on the bench to develop. Leuer? Sloan? Samuels? They'll all be out of the NBA in five years. When Zeller returns, I think things will get a little better, but he wouldn't have been the difference against the Nets.
There is nothing to be done. And if you think it's bad now, wait until the Cavs trade AV.
mrbeaks
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
Which is why Lillard is logging almost thirty-eight minutes per game. He's going to hit the rookie wall hard in March.
Which is why Lillard is logging almost thirty-eight minutes per game. He's going to hit the rookie wall hard in March.
RikSmits
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Re: Rating Coach Scott
Sorry, I didn't answer sooner, but I am at the other side of the ocean, and there comes a moment in the middle of the night where you have seen enough.
My expectations have nothing to do with wins and losses (look it up in the prediction thread). It has everything to do with player development, team development (establishing offensive and defensive systems/mechanisms) and a positive, winning environment. At this point, all I can see is an emphasis on the development of two players (Dion and Kyrie), with one of them the emphasis being solely at the offensive end. With the caveat that it is a small sample size, I think that is extremely short sighted, and will not lead to the success we want.
Back to my original point: IMO, Scott is doing nothing to create a situation where the second unit can succeed. Instead of bringing the bench players in more gradually, and let a few of them benefit from playing with the starters by running some plays to give them easy baskets, his substitutions are either prompted by circumstances (TT in foul trouble) or an almost mechanic substitution pattern based on the game clock.
Simple example: when Casspi came of the bench for the Kings, they'd run a few plays with a double baseline screen to get him free for an uncontested corner 3, which used to be a high percentage shot for him. That would give him confidence and energy.
As I wrote in the game thread: when you see players like Leuer, Miles and Casspi at this point in time regress severely in comparison to their previous team, perhaps there is a more complex explanation than: they just suck. They all look lost and hesitant out there (Miles chucks up shots, yes, but is hesitant in all other aspects of the game), which makes you wonder what the rotations and coach instructions is doing for them. These are guys who have been (semi)competent on their other teams and even in this preseason, which was not so long ago...
Why are they all that bad on executing the offensive and defensive schemes? Are Sloan, Casspi, Leuer, Miles, Walton and Samuels (not mentioning some of the starters) all really stupid, or is the teacher also at fault?
Why can teams like the Thunder and Nets, who have a better bench than the Cavs and are expected to reach the playoffs, consistently play one or two of their best players with the second unit, and the Cavs can't?
Why do you let a guy who has been rotting at the end of the bench (Walton) suddenly come in near the end of the game? Did Scott honestly think that was a good substitution?
The idea that for the development of our backcourt of the future you need to have Kyrie and Dion together on the floor for most of the time is forced, and even a bit ludicrous. A good coach makes players learn from all sort of experiences. Feeling the contrast of playing with a good backcourt mate and a bad backcourt mate (Sloan) is just as much a good learning experience as watching Kyrie go one on three, while camping out at the 3-point line. By the way, why didn't Scott pull Kyrie from the lineup late in the first half and explain him that running a team isn't going 1 on 5, streetball style?
If Grant and Scott see the bench players as a bunch of placeholders while they focus almost exclusively on the development of their core, that is their right (although in the bigger scheme of things a stupid move, IMO). But then they shouldn't act as if they expect more from their bench, and neither should we.
Sorry, I didn't answer sooner, but I am at the other side of the ocean, and there comes a moment in the middle of the night where you have seen enough.
My expectations have nothing to do with wins and losses (look it up in the prediction thread). It has everything to do with player development, team development (establishing offensive and defensive systems/mechanisms) and a positive, winning environment. At this point, all I can see is an emphasis on the development of two players (Dion and Kyrie), with one of them the emphasis being solely at the offensive end. With the caveat that it is a small sample size, I think that is extremely short sighted, and will not lead to the success we want.
Back to my original point: IMO, Scott is doing nothing to create a situation where the second unit can succeed. Instead of bringing the bench players in more gradually, and let a few of them benefit from playing with the starters by running some plays to give them easy baskets, his substitutions are either prompted by circumstances (TT in foul trouble) or an almost mechanic substitution pattern based on the game clock.
Simple example: when Casspi came of the bench for the Kings, they'd run a few plays with a double baseline screen to get him free for an uncontested corner 3, which used to be a high percentage shot for him. That would give him confidence and energy.
As I wrote in the game thread: when you see players like Leuer, Miles and Casspi at this point in time regress severely in comparison to their previous team, perhaps there is a more complex explanation than: they just suck. They all look lost and hesitant out there (Miles chucks up shots, yes, but is hesitant in all other aspects of the game), which makes you wonder what the rotations and coach instructions is doing for them. These are guys who have been (semi)competent on their other teams and even in this preseason, which was not so long ago...
Why are they all that bad on executing the offensive and defensive schemes? Are Sloan, Casspi, Leuer, Miles, Walton and Samuels (not mentioning some of the starters) all really stupid, or is the teacher also at fault?
Why can teams like the Thunder and Nets, who have a better bench than the Cavs and are expected to reach the playoffs, consistently play one or two of their best players with the second unit, and the Cavs can't?
Why do you let a guy who has been rotting at the end of the bench (Walton) suddenly come in near the end of the game? Did Scott honestly think that was a good substitution?
The idea that for the development of our backcourt of the future you need to have Kyrie and Dion together on the floor for most of the time is forced, and even a bit ludicrous. A good coach makes players learn from all sort of experiences. Feeling the contrast of playing with a good backcourt mate and a bad backcourt mate (Sloan) is just as much a good learning experience as watching Kyrie go one on three, while camping out at the 3-point line. By the way, why didn't Scott pull Kyrie from the lineup late in the first half and explain him that running a team isn't going 1 on 5, streetball style?
If Grant and Scott see the bench players as a bunch of placeholders while they focus almost exclusively on the development of their core, that is their right (although in the bigger scheme of things a stupid move, IMO). But then they shouldn't act as if they expect more from their bench, and neither should we.
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