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Star Wars: The Force Awakens teaser #2

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Someone told me yesterday that Lucas had an interview recently where he said that Disney shot down every idea he had for the new trilogy. If true, that gives me hope that it might actually be good. I also question how much of the original trilogy was great because of other people shooting down Lucas' terrible ideas.

I thought I read somewhere that his idea was somewhat close to what they are doing, but they went in their own direction.

Either way I agree that the prequels fell apart because he had a bunch of yes men around him not telling him that his ideas were bad. The same thing happened on Indy 4, as Spielberg just went along with Lucas' terrible ideas because he felt like Lucas was the "story teller" of the series even though he questioned the story.
 
I've never understood why so many people act like this is one of the biggest injustices of the prequels.

Because it was fucking ridiculous and just looked really stupid. I wouldn't say it was one of the biggest injustices, though, simply because the fact that the prequels exist is the biggest injustice of them all.

To me the original trilogy set Yoda up as the ultimate old codger cracking jokes all the time at the end of his life. Yeah he didn't need a light saber because who the fuck was he going to fight? Training with Luke would have been a joke because he was still way more powerful than him.

To be able to see him at full strength in a light saber duel was amazing and what I had always wanted. I would love to see them do an Anthology film that shows him even earlier rising up as a Jedi.

See, there's a timeline problem here. You're telling me that Yoda went from a spry young creature who could do crazy flips and wielding a lightsaber to literally dying of old age in less than 25 years (roughly the time between the Clone Wars and the end of Empire)? That's just ridiculous to me, especially when you consider that Yoda's species supposedly lives for centuries. Yoda should have been damn near equally as old during the Clone Wars as he was during Empire, based on his species' average lifespan.

No, this was just another example of Lucas going for spectacle and a new line of toys over practicality and sticking with his established lore. And I guess even if he contradicted his own lore he could just go back and change the original films again. :chuckle:
 
I've never understood why so many people act like this is one of the biggest injustices of the prequels.

To me the original trilogy set Yoda up as the ultimate old codger cracking jokes all the time at the end of his life. Yeah he didn't need a light saber because who the fuck was he going to fight? Training with Luke would have been a joke because he was still way more powerful than him.

To be able to see him at full strength in a light saber duel was amazing and what I had always wanted. I would love to see them do an Anthology film that shows him even earlier rising up as a Jedi.

I totally agree..

Nowhere, and I mean nowhere, is it established that Yoda doesn't know how to use a lightsaber or is incapable of wielding one.

I've always thought that both Obi-Wan and Yoda trained Luke to use a lightsaber, but it was Yoda who was more influential in Luke's Jedi training.

Now walking into Ep.2, I knew Yoda would be fighting, but I didn't expect them to take the direction of him being so nimble and bouncing around. It was interesting, and at the time, I was laughing hysterically.

I certainly wasn't sitting in my seat grumbling like "this sucks" and I didn't see a single person in the theater or anyone I've ever watched the movie with take exception to this scene.

There's a lot wrong with the prequels, but the Yoda lightsaber fights aren't one of them. To me, those are some of the most memorable scenes of the entire trilogy.
 
Because it was fucking ridiculous and just looked really stupid.

To you maybe, but not to 99% of the people watching the movie, including me.

I always thought Yoda would just use the Force to control his lightsaber; but I never thought he could just "out Force" his opponents, because if he could, why'd he let Darth Vader go around killing everyone?

I wouldn't say it was one of the biggest injustices, though, simply because the fact that the prequels exist is the biggest injustice of them all.

I.. really can't get behind this..

Yes, Lucas fucked up the prequels, but to be 100% honest, I'm glad they were made, and I'm glad he continued the Star Wars franchise. I was excited then, and I left the movie theater excited for the next one.

The story is much like what many of us expected from the Expanded Universe (general plot line was somewhat consistent); and I think many of us really enjoyed watching these movies in theaters even if the acting was terrible.

Cinematically, these movies are horrid, and no we didn't need The Phantom Menace, but overall if you like Star Wars then these movies are worth watching just to get a better understanding of the universe.

As a lifelong Star Wars fan, I can't sit here and say that the franchise would be better off without the prequels.

See, there's a timeline problem here. You're telling me that Yoda went from a spry young creature

Who said Yoda was "young" and spry in the prequels?

He walks with a cane, or even uses a floating wheel chair to hover around and go place to place.

After the fight, he's clearly gripping his back and is in pain.

who could do crazy flips and wielding a lightsaber to literally dying of old age in less than 25 years (roughly the time between the Clone Wars and the end of Empire)?

I think this is a major stretch.... Yoda dies at the ripe old age of 900. We don't know how his species ages, or whether or not he went to Dagobah simply to die.

Twenty-five years of virtual inactivity and solitude would definitely age someone more so than had they remained active; at least, IMHO.

That's just ridiculous to me, especially when you consider that Yoda's species supposedly lives for centuries.

But people age at parabolic rate, not a linear one... Many animals die after certain events in their life, particularly after reproduction. And we don't know what causes Yoda to live for 900 years; it could be the Force - we have no idea.

We also don't know anything about Yoda's species at all without the EU; and in the EU they establish Yoda as a swordmaster... So, either we accept the idea that we have no clue as to how Yoda should or shouldn't age, or we accept the EU which clearly goes into detail on all of this and answers your questions explicitly.

Yoda should have been damn near equally as old during the Clone Wars as he was during Empire, based on his species' average lifespan.

Where is his species' average lifespan established in the movies? It's only mentioned in the EU AFAIK, which also says Yoda is a master swordsman..

No, this was just another example of Lucas going for spectacle and a new line of toys over practicality and sticking with his established lore.

Nah... I think a lot of people were very hype to see the Yoda fight. I think you're being a bit overly cynical and missing the forest for the trees here.

And I guess even if he contradicted his own lore he could just go back and change the original films again. :chuckle:

I just don't see it...

The Star Wars prequels were very much in line with what folks thought they were going to be, including Anakin's fall, the reason he fell, the fight at a "volcano," fighting alongside Obi-Wan in the Clone Wars, etc...

If anything these next films seem to be taking a lot more liberties with Star Wars lore than the prequels did, especially with the retconning of the EU as canon. And that's okay! Just make everything make sense and I'm fine with it.

But to your point, where is Ben Skywalker and Jacen Solo in this movie? No one is named Ben, Jacen, or Anakin so far in the credits, AFAIK, and the names of the characters have supposedly been accurately revealed.

But look man, I hear you, the prequels were bad movies; but some of this stuff is over the top critical.
 
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I thought I read somewhere that his idea was somewhat close to what they are doing, but they went in their own direction.

Either way I agree that the prequels fell apart because he had a bunch of yes men around him not telling him that his ideas were bad. The same thing happened on Indy 4, as Spielberg just went along with Lucas' terrible ideas because he felt like Lucas was the "story teller" of the series even though he questioned the story.

The problem with Lucas is that he gets carried away in his own imagination. A New Hope was a great film because it was limited in budget, scope, narrative, and direction by Twentieth Century Fox.

Lucas had stated early on, once he was no longer in directorial control of Empire and Return of the Jedi that those movies were not made they way he would have made them.

He's been consistent about this for decades.

But he really cares about Star Wars... probably more so than anyone. The thing is, is that most people, understandably so, prefer Ep V & VI because they were generally better films and that's likely because they had a director who could relate Lucas' own story better than he could.

Lucas is a great storyteller. He's just not a great or even a good screenwriter or director. So many people have told him this, including the original cast, that I think even he realizes that now.
 
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I hemmed and hawed over where to post this (here? Wtf thread? Sexytime thread?) but figured this group would appreciate it the most.
 
Remember when I said that whatever Abrams came up with couldn't be any worse than what Lucas would have made and gouri said not necessarily?

http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/9/8577579/lucas-star-wars-teenagers

I'm ready to accept your apology, @gourimoko

:chuckle:


But seriously though the "original" Lucas plot was probably based on the EU storyline, which, is based around teenagers (the children of the original cast) coming of age, with several of them becoming Jedis (and Sith) and ultimately ending with them killing each other.

To be quite honest, and since I know the storyline, I think that story would've been fantastic if it were done well. I just doubt it would've been done well. And simply put, it's way too dark, and there just can't be any true happy ending (kind of like the prequels).

We have no idea what we're getting this time round though, so it's hard to say if it'll be a better story than what we would've gotten from Lucas, or if it'll even fit with the other 6 films.
 
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so it's hard to say if it'll be a better story than what we would've gotten from Lucas

Well, considering that Lucas hasn't told a good story in about twenty years, I really don't think it's hard to say. I think most fans of Star Wars could come up with and write a better Star Wars script than Lucas could right now.
 
Well, considering that Lucas hasn't told a good story in about twenty years, I really don't think it's hard to say. I think most fans of Star Wars could come up with and write a better Star Wars script than Lucas could right now.

But thats the thing. Lucas wasn't tasked with writing or directing he was just going to provide a general outline and from the sounds of it it would've likely been based on the EU storyline.

Similar to how Empire and Return were still Lucas stories just well crafted and revised and cleaned and scrubbed and polished. Lol.

In fact, I think that was the crux of the Disney deal; that they wanted to make the movies because they didn't trust Lucas to direct nor did they want him to completely ruin the franchise.
 
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A little background on the main villain, played by Adam Driver was revealed. His character's name is "Kylo Ren". The "Knights of Ren" are another "religious" faction of Force users like Jedi or Sith (there were multiple other "religions" in the EU, with the Witches of Dathomir the first one that came to mind). So it isn't his real name.

This has lead to speculation that Kylo Ren really is...

Jacen Solo, who is the son of Han and Leia. In the old EU books, he falls to the dark side, adopts the Sith name "Darth Caedus" and kills Luke's wife.

Also tieing in with Daisy Ridley's character who many people think is...

Jaina Solo, Jacen's twin. In the book, she is tasked with killing Jacen.

Also, I hope Oscar Issacs character is really...
Kyp Durron, even though he has been given another name
 
A little background on the main villain, played by Adam Driver was revealed. His character's name is "Kylo Ren". The "Knights of Ren" are another "religious" faction of Force users like Jedi or Sith (there were multiple other "religions" in the EU, with the Witches of Dathomir the first one that came to mind). So it isn't his real name.

This has lead to speculation that Kylo Ren really is...

Jacen Solo, who is the son of Han and Leia. In the old EU books, he falls to the dark side, adopts the Sith name "Darth Caedus" and kills Luke's wife.

Also tieing in with Daisy Ridley's character who many people think is...

Jaina Solo, Jacen's twin. In the book, she is tasked with killing Jacen.

Also, I hope Oscar Issacs character is really...
Kyp Durron, even though he has been given another name

This is what I was thinking they were going to do.. The Solo/Skywalker storyline fits perfectly with Luke's comments about "it runs strong in my family." The first time he said it he was referring to himself, his father, and twin sister.

Now, I think he's referring to Jacen Solo and Ben Skywalker.
 
This is what I was thinking they were going to do.. The Solo/Skywalker storyline fits perfectly with Luke's comments about "it runs strong in my family." The first time he said it he was referring to himself, his father, and twin sister.

Now, I think he's referring to Jacen Solo and Ben Skywalker.
People have said that Domhall Gleeson is Luke's son, but there are photos of him as an Imperial General. I don't see that happening.
Also, no casting mention of anyone like Mara Jade. Maybe Kylo killed her previously.

There is a new book called Aftermath that comes out in September that is supposed to set up the new movie.
 

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