The Brian Hoyer thread...

[jlj3184]

Pardon some people for not coming in here and gobbling Hoyer's knob every week or posting every puff piece they can find on the internet, but actually voicing legitimate concerns about the guy.

It's starting to turn into a "Support the Troops"-type atmosphere in here. If you don't like Hoyer, you're a miserable fan who can't deal with winning teams and just needs something to complain about.

No one has come in here and called for Manziel to take over the job from Hoyer. That's great that Gerald McCoy, whose opinion I value immensely on the topic, likes Hoyer's moxie and that he "keeps his head down". Doesn't change the fact that he struggles to hit open receivers in stride, has a noodle arm, and has been getting receivers absolutely leveled against three of the worst teams in the NFL.

Is the Brian Hoyer thread just here to praise the good things he does?

 

[Binkster]

and has been getting receivers absolutely leveled against three of the worst teams in the NFL.

Hyperbole in every sense of the word...

1, maybe 2 plays where led his receivers into traffic. Bear in mind, he's throwing to 5'7 receivers with no body mass.

I don't know a single quarterback who leads his receivers into harm's way...

 

[Randolphkeys]

The reason players and paid members of the media are calling out the Hoyer criticism is that it has reached embarrassing levels. Not on RCF, but throughout twitter and now in the stands during home games. Again, I'm no longer needed to just give my opinion, experts are saying it for me. Fans totally get to have the freedom to express their opinions on Hoyer's play... But with that freedom comes the responsibility to call out misguided groupthink.

 

[Binkster]

90% of this noise goes away if Manziel isn't on the roster.

You have uneducated football minds calling for the next best thing when it is totally unfounded.

I have the same idiot friend texting me every game, after EVERY incompletion, but mysteriously goes silent after one of Hoyer's patented game-winning drives.

Forget Ebola... The Chuck Booms disease is spreading like wildfire in Cleveland. Symptom number 1: Irrationality. Symptom 2: Masochism.

 

[GreasySpread36]

I guess I don't understand the point of all this. Look, most of us would agree that Hoyer isn't the be-all, end-all. And it would be one thing if this team were 3-5 or 2-6 and had a proven guy as the backup QB. But in all likelihood there isn't another QB on the roster that could have done better over the first eight games than Hoyer has.

I mean, does anyone really think the Browns would be 6-2 or 7-1 with Manziel as the starter instead of Hoyer? I don't. Warts and all, Hoyer is probably the best we've got at the position at this time. So what's the point?

 

[The Oi]

So I think we've solved it. Thread is done.

Can we talk about Ebola or whether everyone voted today or not?

 

[jlj3184]

The reason players and paid members of the media are calling out the Hoyer criticism is that it has reached embarrassing levels. Not on RCF, but throughout twitter and now in the stands during home games. Again, I'm no longer needed to just give my opinion, experts are saying it for me. Fans totally get to have the freedom to express their opinions on Hoyer's play... But with that freedom comes the responsibility to call out misguided groupthink.

Since when are Pat McManamon and Bud Shaw "experts"? They're journalists, who as far as I know, have never played a down of competitive football in their lives. Their job is to report on the team and throw out a few quotes, not to provide advanced analysis. It's easy to hide behind the "paid journalist" argument because we all know working for ESPN and the CPD (hello, Mary Kay Cabot) qualifies you as an expert.

There have been 64 300-yard games this year - it's hardly the eye-popping stat it used to be. Twenty-six other QBs have thrown for 300 or more yards in a game this year, including Andy Dalton, Derek Carr (R), Teddy Bridgewater (R), Geno Smith, Kirk Cousins, Blake Bortles (R), and Mike Glennon.

Thirteen teams threw for 4,000+ yards last season, including...guess who...the Cleveland Browns. Again, not nearly as impressive as it's made out to be in the article.

Guided fourth quarter comeback against Tampa Bay (35-yard "drive" with ~9 minutes left in the game).

He's the second least accurate QB in the league when under pressure (ahead of Geno Smith). His play action splits are 51/83 (61.4%), 6 TD, 1 Int, 10.5 YPA vs non-PA splits of 96/170 (56.5%), 4 TD, 3 Int, 6.8 YPA. Receivers have dropped 10 balls in 8 games, 3rd least in the league.

He's graded out negatively in 5 games this year (3 of which we won anyway), but he's won 5 of 8 games.

He doesn't have 3 Pro Bowl players. How about mentioning that one of them is out because his throw put them in a position where they got hit so hard they were concussed?

Again, this isn't about any calls for Manziel to take over. It's about discussing the very real limitations Hoyer has. Once you begin to go beneath surface deep with him, it gets ugly.

 

[jlj3184]

So I think we've solved it. Thread is done.

Can we talk about Ebola or whether everyone voted today or not?

I get that it's your shtick or whatnot, but what's the point of coming in here to comment if you're so bored/annoyed by the thread?

 

[Mr. Orange]

If the coaches thought Manziel gave us a better chance to win, he would play. Look at Gilbert and the RB's. Until that happens, Brian gives us the best chance to win, no matter how frustrating some of his passes can be. I wonder if JFF can unseat BH by opening day next year. He will have to work hard to do so.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Since when are Pat McManamon and Bud Shaw "experts"? They're journalists, who as far as I know, have never played a down of competitive football in their lives. Their job is to report on the team and throw out a few quotes, not to provide advanced analysis. It's easy to hide behind the "paid journalist" argument because we all know working for ESPN and the CPD (hello, Mary Kay Cabot) qualifies you as an expert.

They have a job that bleeds money: print journalism. And even in this position, they can't help but call out their own cash cow, the fans. They feel their integrity as a journalist requires it, because the crowd is now booing the QB in the middle of winnable games. I think that is significant.

Thirteen teams threw for 4,000+ yards last season, including...guess who...the Cleveland Browns. Again, not nearly as impressive as it's made out to be in the article.

Brian Hoyer was one of the main contributors to that statistic, when healthy. All the same, I think the point here is that a capable QB is winning and putting up starting-level stats. As Greasyspread pointed out... what is the end game here? Because as of right now, the result is an embarrassment of overreaction midgame in the stands. Why not leave at halftime in a close game, it does less damage.

He doesn't have 3 Pro Bowl players. How about mentioning that one of them is out because his throw put them in a position where they got hit so hard they were concussed?

Terrible. Football has a lot of concussions at the pro level. Tight ends play a high contact position. Blaming the QB for a concussion to a tight end? Know your history.

 

[AZ_]

The negatives: He has a completion percentage of 57.9 percent, which is low but pales compared to the won-lost record.

Then there is this tidbit: The team reported that Hoyer is the first Browns quarterback to throw for 200 yards in each of the first eight games of the season since Brian Sipe in 1983.

I'm not going to laud people like him for bashing the fans love of Manziel when it's the same people who are responsible for building the hype of Manziel in the first place.

It's sentences like these two above which disqualify him from being looked upon as any sort of expert, and embody everything that's wrong with the evaluation of journalists.

No mind given to his struggles with accuracy, he WINS GAMES! He's a WINNER!

Save that only one of them is against a team above .500.

Pulling out stats to depict how bad the QB situation has been since 1983 and avoiding rational criticism of his play and diverting to W/L record were just two examples from this article.

I disagree with any assertion that says he's not the starter or should continue to be the starter, but goodness guys temper your expectations a bit here.

 

[Lee]

So I think we've solved it. Thread is done.

Can we talk about Ebola or whether everyone voted today or not?

Thread is not done, we havent even brought up the strengths and possibility of starting Connor Shaw.

He has moxie, poise and winner written all over him.

 

[The Oi]

I get that it's your shtick or whatnot, but what's the point of coming in here to comment if you're so bored/annoyed by the thread?

Because I feel the need to guide the lost sheep of the board. You're all wrong for wanting to continue to discuss a moot point and I'm here to help.

It isn't nice to scold the help.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Thread is not done, we havent even brought up the strengths and possibility of starting Connor Shaw.

He has moxie, poise and winner written all over him.

I don't think we have talked enough about Jamie Moyer's potential either.

 

[jlj3184]

They have a job that bleeds money: print journalism. And even in this position, they can't help but call out their own cash cow, the fans. They feel their integrity as a journalist requires it, because the crowd is now booing the QB in the middle of winnable games. I think that is significant.

So Shaw citing "Twitter noise" and two fans pointing at their watch and holding up 2 fingers questioned their journalistic integrity? C'mon, Keys. It's click-bait, just like anything in print journalism these days. There are some fringe fans calling for Manziel, sure. The crowd boos shitty throws and poor clock management. It happens in every stadium.

Brian Hoyer was one of the main contributors to that statistic, when healthy. All the same, I think the point here is that a capable QB is winning and putting up starting-level stats. As Greasyspread pointed out... what is the end game here? Because as of right now, the result is an embarrassment of overreaction midgame in the stands. Why not leave at halftime in a close game, it does less damage.

If 615 out of 4372 yards (14%) makes him a main contributor, then sure. He was a main contributor. As for the ebarrassment of overreaction...Hoyer was 1/6 for 16 yards, an INT and a sack in the four drives after the opening field goal drive. The final drive actually looked decent until he took that sack, then the fans were booing Pettine for clock management - deservedly so, IMO. A few fringe Manziel fanatics calling for him should not prevent the rest of the "sane" portion of the fanbase from voicing their displeasure over shitty football. And the first half was shitty football. "Why not leave at halftime in a close game, it does less damage" - again, the "support Hoyer/the team blindly or you're a shitty fan" argument. Nonsense.

Terrible. Football has a lot of concussions at the pro level. Tight ends play a high contact position. Blaming the QB for a concussion to a tight end? Know your history.

Um, it was a bad throw. My point is Hoyer shouldn't be given credit for playing without Pro Bowl player Cameron when his errant pass either directly or indirectly led to Cameron being out for the game.
"Cameron made a diving catch over the middle Sunday in the second quarter before he was struck by Oakland safety Brandian Ross."