The ISIS offensive in Iraq

[gourimoko]

My dear Gour,

I think you misunderstand me.

First, Iraqis, Kuwaitis and Afghan are not a race. In fact, scratch Kuwaitis because we rarely dealt with any true Kuwaitis. They are many different races.

This is nonsense. It's like catching someone saying "I hate Chinese people, can't fucking stand them." And then you call them out on it and they say "Well, there are the Hans, the Manchurians, etc; there really is no such thing as Chinese."

You could say the same thing about Whites, Blacks, Filipinos... There is no such race as "Filipino," there's dozens of different genetic races from Malays, Ilocanos, Visayans, Pampangans...

It's a silly cop out of what you said earlier.

Second, my opinion of those folks are based on daily interactions with them

You mean as a uniformed invader?!

and, no, I did not particularly like many of the ones I dealt with. For personal and professional reasons. Until you have been there, in that time and place, I would say that your opinion is ill-informed. You can dislike people without hating their "race." I didn't dislike them because they are Arab, Pashtun, Uzbecki, Persian etc., etc. I disliked some because they were dishonest and venal. If you have been there, then we have a disagreement of opinion.

....

And ISIS is a bunch of savages. I have seen first hand what those types of people are capable. They gleefully murder children. So, I stand by it. They are savages, barbarians and warrant extermination. Whether they be Arab, Pashtun, French, Austrian or Tunisian; once they raised the black standard they were marked for death.

.... I'll let your comments about wanting to go back to kill folks stand on their own.

 

[Sebastian]

This is nonsense. It's like catching someone saying "I hate Chinese people, can't fucking stand them." And then you call them out on it and they say "Well, there are the Hans, the Manchurians, etc; there really is no such thing as Chinese."

You could say the same thing about Whites, Blacks, Filipinos... There is no such race as "Filipino," there's dozens of different genetic races from Malays, Ilocanos, Visayans, Pampangans...

It's a silly cop out of what you said earlier.



You mean as a uniformed invader?!



....



.... I'll let your comments about wanting to go back to kill folks stand on their own.

Thank you for mischaracterizing what I said.

It is obvious that as intelligent as you are, you have no interest in any meaningful discussion. You can continue to beat people over the head with your opinions if you wish. It is an old schtick and it is tiresome.

Moreover, just because you are ethnically related to the peoples in those nations doesn't make you an expert on the region and it does not give you carte blanche to dismiss outright other's opinions.

Finally, I would calm down if I were you. No need to get so bent out of shape.

 

[gourimoko]

To be clear I haven't dismissed anyone's opinions. I'm simply walking into an RCF Klan rally and thought I might voice my opinion of what I'm seeing.

And my knowledge of the region comes from researching it and understanding it for the entirety of my life. MOST of my family lives there, my friends are there.

I speak and study the language, history and culture of the Arabic and native Egyptian people. Why? Because I'm an Arab and I want to know about my own culture. Just as someone might study their Irish or Native American history. I study Islam and have read the Quran for exactly the same reason - even though I am not a Muslim.

And of course, you going there as an invader gives you a particular insight, sure... of that I have no doubt. I don't begrudge you that, you served your country; but I take umbrage when you say you can't wait to go back to killing people in Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan.

As far as my calming down... I normally don't come in these threads of racist vitriol and I know many long-time posters have even told me they do the same.

You notice the few Black posters don't post in these threads anymore?

But these past few months have been particularly bad with respect to racist discussions here on RCF. I'm not against the discussion; but I think the viewpoint I'm presenting should be heard - just as yours has been.

 

[The Oi]

There aren't any black people on rcf.

 

[Sebastian]

To be clear I haven't dismissed anyone's opinions. I'm simply walking into an RCF Klan rally and thought I might voice my opinion of what I'm seeing.

And my knowledge of the region comes from researching it and understanding it for the entirety of my life. MOST of my family lives there, my friends are there.

I speak and study the language, history and culture of the Arabic and native Egyptian people. Why? Because I'm an Arab and I want to know about my own culture. Just as someone might study their Irish or Native American history. I study Islam and have read the Quran for exactly the same reason - even though I am not a Muslim.

And of course, you going there as an invader gives you a particular insight, sure... of that I have no doubt. I don't begrudge you that, you served your country; but I take umbrage when you say you can't wait to go back to killing people in Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan.

As far as my calming down... I normally don't come in these threads of racist vitriol and I know many long-time posters have even told me they do the same.

You notice the few Black posters don't post in these threads anymore?

But these past few months have been particularly bad with respect to racist discussions here on RCF. I'm not against the discussion; but I think the viewpoint I'm presenting should be heard - just as yours has been.

Gour,

I appreciate your experiences. And your insights. I truly do. It is rare someone has an informed opinion on any of the issues concerning the Middle East.

As for my insight, it is what it is. In that capacity, I dealt with some folks I didn't like. Were their actions the product of the US being present in their nation? No doubt and their interactions with me were colored by that reality. Do I blindly blame them for their behavior toward me and my comrades and see it as a product of the culture or people (or race)? No. I know why the did what they did. Doesn't mean I have to like the people I dealt with though.

As for ISIS, how would you suggest the world deals with ISIS? I am a professional and my job is war. ISIS is waging a war without any quarter or mercy. Should we not help the Iraqis destroy them? And yes, perhaps I am desensitized, but I have seen the aftermath of IEDs and suicide attacks. I have seen what AQI did to women and children in their attempts to force husbands and fathers to place bombs. For every US Soldier they killed in bomb attacks, they killed dozens of children. Have you ever seen a five year old without legs? Or a baby's head lying in the middle of the street? ISIS deserves to be destroyed and I have no problem meeting them in combat. They are the enemy of humanity; Christians, Muslims, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindu alike. Force must be met with force.

No one has any issue with what you bring to the table. It is valuable. Very valuable given, if what you say is true, the lily-white complexion of the place. However, I think perhaps you can be over-zealous. I understand why, and times like this, coming off the heels of the Charlie Hebdo incident, it must be a crushing weight to bear. That said, attacking people, when you can casually point out their fallacies, tends to put everyone on edge.

Peace.

 

[gourimoko]

To be honest, Stannis, if you said earlier what you just said here I wouldn't have had a problem.

I take back what I said earlier...

With that out of the way; do I think we should go to war with ISIS? No... definitely not. It's not our responsibility.

I want the hundreds of billions we pour into the military industrial complex to go towards higher education, healthcare for the elderly and sick, public utility subsidization, and scientific research.

I want us to fucking build a space elevator; not bomb people who won't like us regardless of what we do.

Let's just leave them alone.

 

[OptimusPrime]

With that out of the way; do I think we should go to war with ISIS? No... definitely not. It's not our responsibility.

I obviously agree with you on what to do, and that it is not OUR responsibility to deal with ISIS. But the U.S. government did create them. Funded and armed them, and continue to do so to this day. Barack and his cronies and the scumbags in Congress, if they had any morals, should feel a personal sense of responsibility to clean up their mess. But they have no moral compass, and sending someone else to die and making the rest of us pay for it isn't the answer, so just let them be.

 

[Sebastian]

I obviously agree with you on what to do, and that it is not OUR responsibility to deal with ISIS. But the U.S. government did create them. Funded and armed them, and continue to do so to this day. Barack and his cronies and the scumbags in Congress, if they had any morals, should feel a personal sense of responsibility to clean up their mess. But they have no moral compass, and sending someone else to die and making the rest of us pay for it isn't the answer, so just let them be.

I would pay money to see Congress over there dealing with their mess. Or anywhere they have created a blight or pain. Or even coming to grips with consequences of their sociopathic behavior at all.

That said, I'd settle for seeing Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld in kit, pissing themselves at the sound of ISIS mortars.

 

[Simon]

 

[Sebastian]

Oh, joy.

 

[Maximus]

You realize that at least one of the people calling them not human is our own resident Blaximus?

Whoa! The people I said that aren't human are the people that executed 130 school children. That's not racist, that's a fact. I don't care if they are Arab, white or purple...anyone that does that is an animal in my opinion.

I understand why Gour is upset, some of the things that are being said in here are way over the top. Posters need to understand that there are other posters here that are Muslim and that have family over there. This thread has turned into a shitshow and that's why I'm staying out of it. It stopped be an intelligent discussion a long time ago.

 

[OptimusPrime]

I'm a thousand times more afraid of the police than I am ISIS.

 

[Maximus]

I'm a thousand times more afraid of the police than I am ISIS.

1000x????? That's the dumbest statement I've read on RCF in forever. The police have no desire to make NYC or Chicago 1200 degrees...ISIS does. It's inevitable. Your opinion will change. Not a matter of if, but when.

 

[OptimusPrime]

1000x????? That's the dumbest statement I've read on RCF in forever. The police have no desire to make NYC or Chicago 1200 degrees...ISIS does. It's inevitable. Your opinion will change. Not a matter of if, but when.

At least 1,100 people were killed in this country by police last year. And countless thousands of others were brutalized. If you don't believe me:

http://www.killedbypolice.net/kbp2014.html

Has ISIS even killed that many all over the world?

 

[Sebastian]

At least 1,100 people were killed in this country by police last year. And countless thousands of others were brutalized. If you don't believe me:

http://www.killedbypolice.net/kbp2014.html

Has ISIS even killed that many all over the world?

Do you mean outside Iraq and Syria or in general?

Because they have killed many more than a thousand in Iraq and Syria.