The Jonas V thread

[Rich]

Moved on from this debate. The idea that Thompson is never going to amount to anything close to what Jonas can do is settled. And I'm not saying Jonas won't be really good, it's just clear Thompson will be as well.

But I do want to ask Rchfld a question. Last year, after the Rudy Gay trade when the Raptors looked decent, he made a comment that they looked like a team headed for the playoffs. Obviously, didn't work out. But now that I've seen them this year, I have to say that I think this is the most poorly constructed team in the league.

I ask this sincerely and not in the least bit sarcastically, but what did you see in this team Rch?

EDIT: And I'm biased against Rudy Gay. I don't see what team he actually fits on. He was on a team with better offensive players than himself in Memphis, and still chucked. So this idea that he needs to be on a team where he's second fiddle doesn't work, because Zach Randolph was a better offensive player than he was at that time and it didn't seem to really matter to Rudy. Whatever the talent level around him may be, he's going to chuck that rock.

 

[Derek]

It's funny that two of the guys that have been the source of much debate here, Jonas and Drummond, are on two of most poorly constructed teams in the league.

 

[Rich]

At this point I'm rooting for one of those two teams to swoop up the others badly fitting piece. More likely Toronto blows it up than Detroit (Detroit shouldn't blow anything up, it's early).

How awesome would it be to see Detroit make a trade for Rudy Gay? Maybe move Smith back to the 4 and send Drummond to the bench or hell, just go super-duper big and let Gay play the 2. Whatever, I just want to see it happen.

 

[Noonan]

I love Tristan, but let's not allow our Cavaliers bias to distort reality. Jonas looks quite good as well. In fact, their per 36 numbers are nearly identical.

12.5/9.7/0.1 on .458/.757
13.4/10.6/0.7 on .500/.733

Big difference between producing over 36 minutes and projecting over 36 minutes.

 

[Derek]

Big difference between producing over 36 minutes and projecting over 36 minutes.

It's not that big of a difference when he's already playing 26 mpg. Not like he's a 10 mpg bench guy.

 

[Randolphkeys]

To be fair, basketball fans across North America are trying to figure out why Coach Casey is playing his best player so few minutes. That Raptors roster needs to be blown up, but there are a lot of bad contracts clogging it up.

 

[Derek]

To be fair, basketball fans across North America are trying to figure out why Coach Casey is playing his best player so few minutes. That Raptors roster needs to be blown up, but there are a lot of bad contracts clogging it up.

Foul trouble, as mentioned, has occasionally been the culprit. However, sometimes it just seems like he forgets about him. It's a bold strategy for player development.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

If Toronto is dumb enough to do it, I trade Tristan Thompson to them for Jonas right now without thinking twice.

Unlike you guys who are browsing the stat sheets, I actually watch the games. And Jonas is good. Would be statistically showing much better if he played more. I cant explain why Casey is not featuring him more or playing him more.

Casey seems like a Mike Brown clone in how all he cares about is matching up with the opposition instead of having the opposition have to match up with you. I watched them beat Utah a few days ago and every single time they ran the offense through Jonas, they scored a bucket. He was like 4-6 or something but he was making the right basketball play everytime and not forcing it at all. Kinda like Karasev but a 7 foot center.

All of this, and I vehemently want to state that I am coming to love and respect Tristan for what he is, I like him. He's funny. Seems to be a good kid and just works hard. But I would trade him for Jonas 10/10 without thinking twice, even though statistically, they are even now with Tristan having a year experience on him. Jonas is better now and the gap is only going to widen as Toronto makes whatever changes need to be made to build around him, as it is obvious they will do if they can find a taker for Gay.

I have not entertained this thread or talk about Jonas because I simply dont care to keep beating a dead horse and there are no redo's on drafts. Another reason I have moved on is supposedly, we are finished with our lottery picking for now, so I dont care to waste energy on something that wont affect this core's championship chances until another lottery pick opportunity presents itself to us, then I'll get back to caring about what Grant did with the picks he has already had.

Right now my focus is on making the current pieces (players and coach) fit and putting all the players we do have in a position to grow together or play well enough to bring back better talent via trade, where I have much more confidence in Grants ability.

 

[adam81king]

If Toronto is dumb enough to do it, I trade Tristan Thompson to them for Jonas right now without thinking twice.

Unlike you guys who are browsing the stat sheets, I actually watch the games. And Jonas is good. Would be statistically showing much better if he played more. I cant explain why Casey is not featuring him more or playing him more.

Casey seems like a Mike Brown clone in how all he cares about is matching up with the opposition instead of having the opposition have to match up with you. I watched them beat Utah a few days ago and every single time they ran the offense through Jonas, they scored a bucket. He was like 4-6 or something but he was making the right basketball play everytime and not forcing it at all. Kinda like Karasev but a 7 foot center.

All of this, and I vehemently want to state that I am coming to love and respect Tristan for what he is, I like him. He's funny. Seems to be a good kid and just works hard. But I would trade him for Jonas 10/10 without thinking twice, even though statistically, they are even now with Tristan having a year experience on him. Jonas is better now and the gap is only going to widen as Toronto makes whatever changes need to be made to build around him, as it is obvious they will do if they can find a taker for Gay.

I have not entertained this thread or talk about Jonas because I simply dont care to keep beating a dead horse and there are no redo's on drafts. Another reason I have moved on is supposedly, we are finished with our lottery picking for now, so I dont care to waste energy on something that wont affect this core's championship chances until another lottery pick opportunity presents itself to us, then I'll get back to caring about what Grant did with the picks he has already had.

Right now my focus is on making the current pieces (players and coach) fit and putting all the players we do have in a position to grow together or play well enough to bring back better talent via trade, where I have much more confidence in Grants ability.

I'd be more apt to give them Anthony Bennett. He's Canadian and would give them a better shot at getting the pick needed to get Andrew Wiggins, also. Not the slightest bit realistic, but it'd be nice anyway.


On a side note, anyone think Jonas regrets playing hardball (IF he did) with the Cavaliers now? His coach isn't playing him like he should, even in his second season.

 

[Rich]

If Toronto is dumb enough to do it, I trade Tristan Thompson to them for Jonas right now without thinking twice.

Unlike you guys who are browsing the stat sheets, I actually watch the games. And Jonas is good. Would be statistically showing much better if he played more. I cant explain why Casey is not featuring him more or playing him more.

Casey seems like a Mike Brown clone in how all he cares about is matching up with the opposition instead of having the opposition have to match up with you. I watched them beat Utah a few days ago and every single time they ran the offense through Jonas, they scored a bucket. He was like 4-6 or something but he was making the right basketball play everytime and not forcing it at all. Kinda like Karasev but a 7 foot center.

All of this, and I vehemently want to state that I am coming to love and respect Tristan for what he is, I like him. He's funny. Seems to be a good kid and just works hard. But I would trade him for Jonas 10/10 without thinking twice, even though statistically, they are even now with Tristan having a year experience on him. Jonas is better now and the gap is only going to widen as Toronto makes whatever changes need to be made to build around him, as it is obvious they will do if they can find a taker for Gay.

I have not entertained this thread or talk about Jonas because I simply dont care to keep beating a dead horse and there are no redo's on drafts. Another reason I have moved on is supposedly, we are finished with our lottery picking for now, so I dont care to waste energy on something that wont affect this core's championship chances until another lottery pick opportunity presents itself to us, then I'll get back to caring about what Grant did with the picks he has already had.

Right now my focus is on making the current pieces (players and coach) fit and putting all the players we do have in a position to grow together or play well enough to bring back better talent via trade, where I have much more confidence in Grants ability.

Nobody has said Jonas isn't good. I think he'll be very good. But you'll go down with this ship:

Jonas is better now and the gap is only going to widen as Toronto makes whatever changes need to be made to build around him

And I'm with adam, I'd also give them Bennett 10 out 10 times.

 

[The Edge]

Jonas is better than TT. I missed it?
I wouldn't trade em either, the way the team is set, with AB and AV at the 5 JV would be on the bench learning English. Seriously though, as usual we all have opinions and what you think today can all be gone tomorrow.

I for one am glad we have Tristan at PF and happy we have Bynum at the 5 instead of Jonas.

Here's to JV being mediocre in Toronto where nobody cares.

 

[mAo_mAo]

Jonas is better than TT. I missed it?
I wouldn't trade em either, the way the team is set, with AB and AV at the 5 JV would be on the bench learning English. Seriously though, as usual we all have opinions and what you think today can all be gone tomorrow.

I for one am glad we have Tristan at PF and happy we have Bynum at the 5 instead of Jonas.

Here's to JV being mediocre in Toronto where nobody cares.

I really hate the we have Bynum argument. He is one injury away from retirement. We really need a center. That is the point of this thread and the Drummond thread, imo. We had the chance of addressing that need 2 drafts in a row and we refused to make it.

I am in the opinion that a good center is hard to find and if you have a chance to grab one you make it unless the other talents are really cant miss talents.I really dont think TT and Waiters are cant miss talents. Talents like them are available almost every draft even in the mid teens.

 

[The Edge]

Every player in the league is 1 injury away from retirement.
With AV and AB the Cavs have a center.

Was Jonas a can't miss talent? Only time will tell.

 

[mAo_mAo]

Every player in the league is 1 injury away from retirement.
With AV and AB the Cavs have a center.

Was Jonas a can't miss talent? Only time will tell.

LOL! Injury from what? Being shot in the head?

I also did not say that Val is a cant miss talent. I am just saying that in all things being equal you take a center.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Every player in the league is 1 injury away from retirement.

Come on, man. There's a big difference between the risk of a healthy player suffering a catastrophic injury and the risk of a guy with recurring degenerative knee issues suffering yet another injury that leads to his retirement.

And I'm not saying Bynum can't stay healthy, just that the odds of him staying healthy are significantly less than the odds of a totally healthy player remaining healthy.