Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

sportscoach said:

I am not against your move at all, I just personally don't think a small market team will ever put out a contract like that. Running teams on OOTP a lot has kind of told me, that when a smaller market team ends up overpaying for production, it's very hard to make it up in free agency, so their room for error drops so significantly that it's to big of a gamble to do. My bet is the Guardians will take it contract to contract and when his agent team wants more than his production then he either takes the paycut or plays for another team. I wish I could believe we could extend him so long, but its to large of a gamble to do in my mind...

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Hence the emphasis on win win. Gards get a fantastic deal for the next 6 years or so and Jose gets lifetime security. Gotta give something to get something.

PocketMonger said:

Hence the emphasis on win win. Gards get a fantastic deal for the next 6 years or so and Jose gets lifetime security. Gotta give something to get something.

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It's a win at the beginning for the Guardians but a loss at the end of the contract. His contract will end after a time we likely need to cut budget and recycle the roster and because of the likely 10-5, he can veto trades as well. You cannot have a fourth of your payroll in a less than 1 WAR player. Look at Baltimore for example... Davis cash strapped them hard (plus they haven't drafted/developed well either). Keep JRam at too high of a rate and have a couplw bad drafts/international signings, we are sunk for a few years since we can no longer supplement the roster with stop gap free agents.

sportscoach said:

It's a win at the beginning for the Guardians but a loss at the end of the contract. His contract will end after a time we likely need to cut budget and recycle the roster and because of the likely 10-5, he can veto trades as well. You cannot have a fourth of your payroll in a less than 1 WAR player. Look at Baltimore for example... Davis cash strapped them hard (plus they haven't drafted/developed well either). Keep JRam at too high of a rate and have a couplw bad drafts/international signings, we are sunk for a few years since we can no longer supplement the roster with stop gap free agents.

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Davis getting paid nearly 27 million a year from 2016 to 2023 isn't year the same kind of overpay as the Gards over paying Jose 7 years from now at 20 million a year. It's not even that close to be honest.

DCTribefan said:

So why does the club have/pay an interpreter? His prerogative of course but I raised the issue in response to the observation of him being very anonymous in the baseball world.

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He is "anonymous" in the baseball world for how good he is.

Guy spent months this year obsessing over pool tables and pinball...he is a hermit, a homebody, and is at home in a small market. You hear nothing about what he does off the field, that's what makes him anonymous. Speaks better English then Puig, but you heard a ton of shit about Puig off the field.

Often Spanish speaking players who speak decent English prefer giving TV/radio interviews through interpreters to avoid something being lost in translation on live TV or live radio. No margin for error there.

And why does the club have/pay an interpreter? You serious, Clark?

PocketMonger said:

Davis getting paid nearly 27 million a year from 2016 to 2023 isn't year the same kind of overpay as the Gards over paying Jose 7 years from now at 20 million a year. It's not even that close to be honest.

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Without a minority owner, the Indians payroll will be 80-90 million on a normal season anything above that, is essentially coming out of the owners profit/pocket book. I have to project that is our cap.

Small market teams recycle about every 5ish years, so in 26/27 we will have to sell/retool more than likely and if JRam's production has dropped, there is no way to move him nor can we supplement the team with free agent stopgaps like we normally would. Think if we went into 21 without putting money into Eddie and Hernandez. We might have been okay, but would you have been happy with the FO? Most people would have been pissed after trading Carrasco and Lindor then not adding any veteran talent?

Running a small market team is constantly projecting a lot more logistics since you have have little room for error and the Guardians FO is going to side with the analytics of after X age, production goes down, so after X age, player is worth no more than Y value. 9 times out of ten if a player is playing in a small market and X is greater than the age and price is above Y value, he is moved/not kept. I mean there is more variables like injury history, production peripherals, etc...

Truth be told though I love your idea and if it happens I'll support it 100%, I just dont see it happening when analytics is 90% against the move for a small market team....

@PocketMonger

Welcome to the forums by the way, sorry if I went a bit overboard there. I want JRam long term in Cleveland as a fan, but analytics just say it's a bad idea at that price. If we had an LA market, I'd 100% say yes if JRam's agent said yes to a proposition like that.

Just a review...

JRams agent is not averse to extending his clients with small market teams.

Among his biggest named clients, he has extended them variously with Cleveland, Texas, Pittsburgh (twice), and KC (twice).

Salvadore Perez, certainly an icon in KC, signed a five year extension for $52.5 mil at age 27...coming off of four consecutive all star games, four GGs, and a SS.

He recently extended again for another four years, beginning at age 32, for $82.5 mil, with an option for a fifth at 37.

Obviously, the best catcher in the AL would not sign an extension with KC. Even more obviously, he wouldn't do it twice.

But he did.

I'd love it If Jose only signed a four year extension at the end of his current deal. Huge savings with minimal back end risk. Just not sure why Jose would sign it even if he's willing to take a pay cut to stay in Cleveland. Too good to be true.

BimboColesHair said:

He is "anonymous" in the baseball world for how good he is.

Guy spent months this year obsessing over pool tables and pinball...he is a hermit, a homebody, and is at home in a small market. You hear nothing about what he does off the field, that's what makes him anonymous. Speaks better English then Puig, but you heard a ton of shit about Puig off the field.

Often Spanish speaking players who speak decent English prefer giving TV/radio interviews through interpreters to avoid something being lost in translation on live TV or live radio. No margin for error there.

And why does the club have/pay an interpreter? You serious, Clark?

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Excuse me for not having all this “insider” information about Jose’s off the field activities and his proclivity to be a homebody. Thanks for clearing that up even despite your smart-a$$ comment about an interpreter. I get that Hispanic players are more comfortable speaking their native language; who wouldn’t be? I only raised the issue after a prior poster expressed surprise about Jose’s “anonymity,” which I opined as in part attributable to language barriers. I await your further updates on what other type of games Jose enjoys in the comforts of his home.

DCTribefan said:

Excuse me for not having all this “insider” information about Jose’s off the field activities and his proclivity to be a homebody. Thanks for clearing that up even despite your smart-a$$ comment about an interpreter. I get that Hispanic players are more comfortable speaking their native language; who wouldn’t be? I only raised the issue after a prior poster expressed surprise about Jose’s “anonymity,” which I opined as in part attributable to language barriers. I await your further updates on what other type of games Jose enjoys in the comforts of his home.

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Hotline Miami.

BimboColesHair said:

Hotline Miami.

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Now there’s the content I came here for.

He also loves Chicken Alfredo, the entire works of Alfred Hitchcock, and long walks on the shores of Lake Erie.

Alright, enjoy everyone. I’m out.

Quietest stretch of the season about the happen. After the WS it gets interesting quick.

FWIW....

I wasn't expressing surprise that Jose has remained so anonymous.

I was merely stating a fact.

There are people in this world that do not measure quality of life by the size and length of their contracts...or the amount of their personal publicity. There are also agents that care more for the best interests of their clients than the size of their percentages.

And there are a few individuals that just want to play baseball.

CATS44 said:

FWIW....

I wasn't expressing surprise that Jose has remained so anonymous.

I was merely stating a fact.

There are people in this world that do not measure quality of life by the size and length of their contracts...or the amount of their personal publicity. There are also agents that care more for the best interests of their clients than the size of their percentages.

And there are a few individuals that just want to play baseball.

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We knew where Frankie stood on those issues. But do we really know Jose’s views?

Something that could affect the Guardians off season.. is the current status of the CBA.. As of now.. "...AP Writer Ronald Blum writes that MLB may try institute a transactions freeze this winter if the CBA expires without a new agreement.." If that is the case.. everything would be put on hold. No trades.. no signings.. no extensions.. nothing..

Could work in the Guardians' favor.. or..