Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

[mopete12]

The second extension for Cookie was as a result of the heart and leukemia issues... I don't recall if it was before or afterward the diagnoses..

A second extension has just been a rare happenstance with the Indians.. very rare, indeed..

Leukemia diagnosis was after the extension. Had no impact at all.

 

[CATS44]

What has happened historically has to be taken into account. But even within that historical context, each situation is different.

Had the org been willing to extend some players...Brantley, Santana, and VMart come to mind...they probably would have stayed.

But Brantley had severe health questions at age 32. Santana was 34, coming off an awful season, and Covid hit. Victor would have been 32 when he hit free agency, and the team was in full rebuild.

Joses situation is far different. He will be 30 when his options run out, is among the truly elite players in the game, and the team is not rebuilding.

Also, as has been mentioned, he has chosen an agent who prefers extensions to free agency. Not only did Jose choose him, he chose to stay with him when he began his own agency. On the surface, Jose does not look like somebody looking to move on from Cleveland.

While you can't ignore the history of Cleveland and its better players, you also can't ignore the decisions that Jose has made leading up to this point in time.

You also can't ignore the fact that Jose may be the most anonymous superstar in the game. Unlike Lindor, the anonymity that playing in Cleveland provides seems to fit Jose just fine.

 

[Alabuckeye]

What has happened historically has to be taken into account. But even within that historical context, each situation is different.

Had the org been willing to extend some players...Brantley, Santana, and VMart come to mind...they probably would have stayed.

But Brantley had severe health questions at age 32. Santana was 34, coming off an awful season, and Covid hit. Victor would have been 32 when he hit free agency, and the team was in full rebuild.

Joses situation is far different. He will be 30 when his options run out, is among the truly elite players in the game, and the team is not rebuilding.

Also, as has been mentioned, he has chosen an agent who prefers extensions to free agency. Not only did Jose choose him, he chose to stay with him when he began his own agency. On the surface, Jose does not look like somebody looking to move on from Cleveland.

While you can't ignore the history of Cleveland and its better players, you also can't ignore the decisions that Jose has made leading up to this point in time.

You also can't ignore the fact that Jose may be the most anonymous superstar in the game. Unlike Lindor, the anonymity that playing in Cleveland provides seems to fit Jose just fine.

nice post....and I agree with the general conclusion.

 

[DCTribefan]

What has happened historically has to be taken into account. But even within that historical context, each situation is different.

Had the org been willing to extend some players...Brantley, Santana, and VMart come to mind...they probably would have stayed.

But Brantley had severe health questions at age 32. Santana was 34, coming off an awful season, and Covid hit. Victor would have been 32 when he hit free agency, and the team was in full rebuild.

Joses situation is far different. He will be 30 when his options run out, is among the truly elite players in the game, and the team is not rebuilding.

Also, as has been mentioned, he has chosen an agent who prefers extensions to free agency. Not only did Jose choose him, he chose to stay with him when he began his own agency. On the surface, Jose does not look like somebody looking to move on from Cleveland.

While you can't ignore the history of Cleveland and its better players, you also can't ignore the decisions that Jose has made leading up to this point in time.

You also can't ignore the fact that Jose may be the most anonymous superstar in the game. Unlike Lindor, the anonymity that playing in Cleveland provides seems to fit Jose just fine.

How much of his anonymity is due to his non English verbal skills?

 

[CATS44]

How much of his anonymity is due to his non English verbal skills?

Again, that's his choice.

But nobody knows anything at all about him outside of what he does on a baseball field.

Not only is he the most anonymous superstar, he may be the most anonymous regular Cleveland player in my lifetime.

 

[CATS44]

I remember a story.

It really has nothing to do with this thread...lol. But it does relate to bilingualism.

Jhonny Peralta was an extremely sensitive person who was treated miserably in Cleveland for not being Omar.

He spent an entire offseason learning to speak English. During spring training, he gave his first radio interview. After the interview was over, he asked whoever did the interview...I forget who it was...how he did.

Peralta wanted so badly to fit in....which was never gonna happen in Cleveland.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Jose speaks solid English away from the cameras. Dude is a bit of a troll, in a wholesome way.

 

[BMAN]

Jose speaks solid English away from the cameras. Dude is a bit of a troll, in a wholesome way.

Yup I was actually about to say this when I saw the comment of his non English speaking skills. Guy messes with people.

 

[DCTribefan]

Jose speaks solid English away from the cameras. Dude is a bit of a troll, in a wholesome way.

So why does the club have/pay an interpreter? His prerogative of course but I raised the issue in response to the observation of him being very anonymous in the baseball world.

 

[DCTribefan]

Again, that's his choice.

But nobody knows anything at all about him outside of what he does on a baseball field.

Not only is he the most anonymous superstar, he may be the most anonymous regular Cleveland player in my lifetime.

Not suggesting he must speak English language (your interpretation of my comment). That’s completely his prerogative as you said. My comment only in response to his relative low profile for a star at his level.

 

[sportscoach]

So why does the club have/pay an interpreter? His prerogative of course but I raised the issue in response to the observation of him being very anonymous in the baseball world.

There is a lot of Spanish speaking players in MLB so it's almost a must have position now...

 

[PocketMonger]

Sorry for such a long post as a firm timer but I've been thinking about a Jose extension and here's what I think looks like a win win.

In terms of new money Jose gets 180 million over 8 years but the new money get dispersed creatively.

Over the next two years Jose is set to make 12 million and 14 million. Give him raises for the next two years so he gets paid 20 million in 2022 and 2023.

From there he gets a 8 year 160 million dollar extension at 20 million a year. Add a 9th year team option for 20 million that can be declined for 6 million.

Raises and options equal to 20 million for Jose plus the 160 million dollar extension equaling 180 million.

It's a win win because the Tribe retain a generational player for the rest of his career at absurdly cheap yearly rate.

Jose wins because he gets a lifetime contract albeit at a reduced yearly rate. This deal is somewhat similar to the one Tatis signed last winter. Tatis was much younger but also vastly less proven.

Some will balk at paying Jose beyond the age of 35 but there's simply no reason for Jose to take such a drastic yearly pay cut without additional years being added like Tatis.

This seems like a pretty realistic win win scenario for both the player and the team

 

[sportscoach]

Sorry for such a long post as a firm timer but I've been thinking about a Jose extension and here's what I think looks like a win win.

In terms of new money Jose gets 180 million over 8 years but the new money get dispersed creatively.

Over the next two years Jose is set to make 12 million and 14 million. Give him raises for the next two years so he gets paid 20 million in 2022 and 2023.

From there he gets a 8 year 160 million dollar extension at 20 million a year. Add a 9th year team option for 20 million that can be declined for 6 million.

Raises and options equal to 20 million for Jose plus the 160 million dollar extension equaling 180 million.

It's a win win because the Tribe retain a generational player for the rest of his career at absurdly cheap yearly rate.

Jose wins because he gets a lifetime contract albeit at a reduced yearly rate. This deal is somewhat similar to the one Tatis signed last winter. Tatis was much younger but also vastly less proven.

Some will balk at paying Jose beyond the age of 35 but there's simply no reason for Jose to take such a drastic yearly pay cut without additional years being added like Tatis.

This seems like a pretty realistic win win scenario for both the player and the team

I'd normally agree with you, but JRam from age 32-35 will likely get greater than 20 million from almost any ball club at the current moment if he keeps up his production, hence why I have been thinking of a contract between a 4/84 to 6/144...

Now it's possible we give him another contract if he wishes to retire a Guardian, but for now, he will get a greater guaranteed money over the next 3-4 years minimum and then after that he could take another contract with us.

 

[PocketMonger]

I'd normally agree with you, but JRam from age 32-35 will likely get greater than 20 million from almost any ball club at the current moment if he keeps up his production, hence why I have been thinking of a contract between a 4/84 to 6/144...

Now it's possible we give him another contract if he wishes to retire a Guardian, but for now, he will get a greater guaranteed money over the next 3-4 years minimum and then after that he could take another contract with us.

A four year extension plus the two years he already has remaining has him entering free agency at age 34. That's a pretty big gamble on Jose's part that he still be worth 35 million a year so far in the future.

I continue to think that either just hitting free agency or getting a lifetime deal are the two best routes for Jose.

 

[sportscoach]

A four year extension plus the two years he already has remaining has him entering free agency at age 34. That's a pretty big gamble on Jose's part that he still be worth 35 million a year so far in the future.

I continue to think that either just hitting free agency or getting a lifetime deal are the two best routes for Jose.

I am not against your move at all, I just personally don't think a small market team will ever put out a contract like that. Running teams on OOTP a lot has kind of told me, that when a smaller market team ends up overpaying for production, it's very hard to make it up in free agency, so their room for error drops so significantly that it's to big of a gamble to do. My bet is the Guardians will take it contract to contract and when his agent team wants more than his production then he either takes the paycut or plays for another team. I wish I could believe we could extend him so long, but its to large of a gamble to do in my mind...