2019 MLB Trade Deadline

[Derek]

My point with comparing Albert and Manny to modern stats...………..is winning and getting to the World Series. and stats. Stats are great, but winning is better. You can post all the stats, WAR and all that......…..give me the '27 Yankees and I'll whip you ass every day/game/series. Guess its just a miscommunication on stats.

Advanced stats love the '27 Yankees. Ruth and Gehrig each walked more than they struck out, had wRC+'s over 200 (more than 100% better than league average) and combined for 25.5 WAR!

Ok, I'm done responding to you now since you probably won't even read this.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Anyone that thinks Cookie will return this year needs to completely remove that hope from their thinking . He won’t be back this year. He’s looking at 8 months heavy treatment and about 16 months of maintenance. Basically its 2 years until he returns to his former self, and that’s only if everything goes well. It’s Leukemia. It’s doesn’t have a 100% cure rate.

I don't believe Cookie will be back this year.

Your take here on treatment and recovery time is not accurate whatsoever. The treatment, timetable, and impact vary wildly with each specific case. "Leukemia" is a wide brush.

 

[sportscoach]

Anyone that thinks Cookie will return this year needs to completely remove that hope from their thinking . He won’t be back this year. He’s looking at 8 months heavy treatment and about 16 months of maintenance. Basically its 2 years until he returns to his former self, and that’s only if everything goes well. It’s Leukemia. It’s doesn’t have a 100% cure rate.

The fact is they caught the condition when it started, kind of means that it could shorten the time table of recovery. I think if Carrasco needed to pitch technically I think he could get back on the mound, but he lacks the strength and endurance he normally would have so they want to wait until he is stronger again. I think personally he should be ready for next season, just we do not know if he will be able to take the workload of a starter, but he should be back on the mound way before you project him to be.

 

[MoFlo]

Here's an idea..

Instead of calling someone stupid, educate them.

If they don't want to be educated, use ignore.

If they end up trolling, report it or tell one of us.

If I see people calling each other stupid or take any other needless jabs at someone, they're getting a ban.

And AZ/Orange. I already warned you 2 to knock it off with the irrelevant argument. Keep it up, you're both getting banned. Consider this a final warning.

 

[Lee]

Sure, he's allowed.

But when he invents strawman arguments and assumes we should be able to call him out on it. Assuming advanced stats would say that legends arent great when they clearly show that they are is old school, Joe Morgan levels of ignorance.

LOL @ Joe Morgan. I have never heard an announcer humble brag more than Joe Morgan.

"You know Dave, that reminds me when I was playing in my 5th all star game with Hank Aaron and Hank said...……"

 

[Lee]

Here's an idea..

Instead of calling someone stupid, educate them.

If they don't want to be educated, use ignore.

If they end up trolling, report it or tell one of us.

If I see people calling each other stupid or take any other needless jabs at someone, they're getting a ban.

And AZ/Orange. I already warned you 2 to knock it off with the irrelevant argument. Keep it up, you're both getting banned. Consider this a final warning.

Do you think there is a WtB advanced metric?

Spoiler

Warning to Ban ratio

 

[Urban]

Similar arguments:

Player X is really good because he has a lot of RBI. RBI = Runs and Runs = Wins. Ignoring the players that hit above Player X, as well as plenty of other statistics (standard and advanced) that give us much better insight into Player X's game.

Brandon Jennings was a good basketball player because he averaged 14.1 ppg in his career. Points = Wins. Ignoring it took him 12.8 shots/game to come to those points, among other shortcomings in his game

 

[Lee]

Similar arguments:

Player X is really good because he has a lot of RBI. RBI = Runs and Runs = Wins. Ignoring the players that hit above Player X, as well as plenty of other statistics (standard and advanced) that give us much better insight into Player X's game.

Brandon Jennings was a good basketball player because he averaged 14.1 ppg in his career. Points = Wins. Ignoring it took him 12.8 shots/game to come to those points, among other shortcomings in his game

I dare join the conversation, but the best example I can think of NON ADVANCED STATS, was when Jeff Kent hit behind Bonds and won the MVP.

But he hit Behind Bonds by far the most feared batter. Kent had a better avg 334 to 307, also Bonds had less RBI's 125 for Kent, 107 for Bonds

But look inside the numbers and non advanced stats we used back then. Bonds had a higher on base percentage because we walked allot more. Also Bonds had 49 HR vs 33 HR so his slugging percentage was much higher.

Basically Kent shouldn't have won the MVP, it should have been Bonds, but Bonds was hated even back then before he started to Roid. Because he hit 3rd and Kent hit 4, pitchers wouldn't pitch to Bonds and it doesnt take advanced metrics to figure that out.

I mean not trying to continue the dead debate, but even before advanced stats and all of the people in here more knowledgeable on baseball, I felt that was a huge injustice and Kent got propelled way more than he should. My friend was a huge SF fan so we talked about it allot. I remembered him from that season with Cleveland and was amazed how much his hitting jumped just because he hit behind Bonds.

 

[chuck0609]

In a weird way, I like that Kluber has been out so much this season and will come back in several weeks. Last few years he has really fallen off late in playoffs and struggled horribly to find strike zone. I think the obvious explanation is fatigue.

I'm kind of glad he's been out so much this year, and hopefully has a live arm come post-season. It's a testament to the organization that they're doing this well in the standings without him.

Now we've added offensive support in Reyes and Puig, while being able to replace Bauer with Kluber.

I like where this team is at.

Let's go get a W tonight and get some positive momentum coming out of the deadline.

I really agree with this. Even though his arm was broken, his shoulder and muscles had an opportunity to rest. I’ll bet his conditioning with his legs is where it needs to be.

The only issue with fatigue is the atrophy that the muscles may have developed, and if he’s going to be or can be at full strength this year. I don’t know the answer to that.

 

[chuck0609]

I honestly can’t imagine a single scenario where Puig is back next year.

Even if he’s awesome the rest of the year, they will be better off investing in extending their own players with what remains of the budget.

True. But they’re looking at 30M (between Bauer and Kipnis), shouldn’t they be able to pick up someone?

 

[sportscoach]

True. But they’re looking at 30M (between Bauer and Kipnis), shouldn’t they be able to pick up someone?

ON paper yes, but I believe they want to invest that into the current roster, aka extending Clev, Lindor, Bieber etc. With who we have, I don't think we need to spend the money. We have a lot of young talent in the OF that we need to develop and spending money on Puig doesn't make a ton of sense long term to me.

 

[Coyote850]

I really agree with this. Even though his arm was broken, his shoulder and muscles had an opportunity to rest. I’ll bet his conditioning with his legs is where it needs to be.

The only issue with fatigue is the atrophy that the muscles may have developed, and if he’s going to be or can be at full strength this year. I don’t know the answer to that.

Exactly my thoughts. Normally Kluber seems almost burned out by the time the post season starts. If he can get ready then he should be nice and strong for the post season. Hope so anyways.

 

[AZ_]

Kluber has 5 more wins in September than he does in any other month.

Guess all those wins Greg Maddux has makes him an average pitcher.

 

[mrWalrus]

ON paper yes, but I believe they want to invest that into the current roster, aka extending Clev, Lindor, Bieber etc. With who we have, I don't think we need to spend the money. We have a lot of young talent in the OF that we need to develop and spending money on Puig doesn't make a ton of sense long term to me.

My only reason for thinking we may want to try and bring Puig back is if he's enough of a personality to put more butts in the seats. It's going to be a real interesting next couple of months.

 

[AZ_]

My only reason for thinking we may want to try and bring Puig back is if he's enough of a personality to put more butts in the seats. It's going to be a real interesting next couple of months.

While Cleveland falling in love with a league average player to put butts in the seats, it doesn't work like that.