2020-2021 Cavs Season General Discussion

[Ohioplayer00]

relative to draft position, the cavs have drafted pretty well under koby altman. the only questionable one is sexton over SGA, but SGA said he doesn't want to be drafted by the cavs. i challenge you, name me one bad draft pick in recent years?


the talent evaluators that brought us the likes of anthony bennett and jj hickson is long gone.

I wasn’t talking about Altman! I’m talking about our scouting department! I know I’ll get blasted for this but I am still not sold on Cedi or Windler (both too inconsistent)
Okoro over Haliburton? Drafting two undersized guards in back to back years? Koby has only been GM here three years and I have already listed four question marks!

 

[weepinwillow]

Okoro is playing more minutes than any other rookie, is tasked with guarding the other teams best perimeter player, was not a big time college scorer but is being drilled for not shooting more now, is responsible for being drafted as a sf yet is undersized, and now drilled for being an atrocious rebounder on a team that is generally a pretty good rebounding team without a set pf. Got it.

it's because people don't know what a good player looks like w/o clear stats they understand showing up in the boxscore. He actually had a rough game last night compared to recent efforts, but he still played well on defense and made good decisions with the ball.
He's fine, for Isaac to be reach his potential as a very good NBA player he will need his jumper to be good. This was the case and still is the case.

 

[NMCav]

I wasn’t talking about Altman! I’m talking about our scouting department! I know I’ll get blasted for this but I am still not sold on Cedi or Windler (both too inconsistent)
Okoro over Haliburton? Drafting two undersized guards in back to back years? Koby has only been GM here three years and I have already listed four question marks!

Haliburton was reportedly telling teams not to draft him. He wanted to go to Sacramento to play with Fox.

 

[CavsFan07]

it's because people don't know what a good player looks like w/o clear stats they understand showing up in the boxscore. He actually had a rough game last night compared to recent efforts, but he still played well on defense and made good decisions with the ball.
He's fine, for Isaac to be reach his potential as a very good NBA player he will need his jumper to be good. This was the case and still is the case.

I've played basketball my entire life and coached for nearly all of my adulthood. I think I'm well aware what a 'good player' looks like. I don't need the stats.

His rebounding numbers are, in fact, atrocious. I brought that up as a talking point. An abundance of Cavs fans will make a ton of excuses as to why his numbers are bad... but very few will say the obvious: "He needs to get better in that department." Plenty of ways to get better at rebounding and for the Cavs sake I do hope he figures it out eventually.

Is Okoro a 'good player'? That's yet to be determined. He's a very solid defender. He plays hard. But there's a lot of things that go into being a good overall player.

Other than playing hard and being pretty good defensively, what exactly makes him a good player?

 

[2 For The Brew]

Okoro is playing more minutes than any other rookie, is tasked with guarding the other teams best perimeter player, was not a big time college scorer but is being drilled for not shooting more now, is responsible for being drafted as a sf yet is undersized, and now drilled for being an atrocious rebounder on a team that is generally a pretty good rebounding team without a set pf. Got it.

He had 5 offensive RBs against the Sixers and 8 total, so he’s capable. Pretty sure his defensive role is what you said and not positioning for rebounds but against Philly Allen had his hands full with Embiid so the much-maligned starting 1-2-3 had 15 rebounds that game and Wade had 12. We outrebounded them.

Last night we won the RB battle 48-30 but Okoro has 1 rebound so clearly that’s a severe problem for the team. The Rockets did get four offensive RBs so if Okoro had rebounded better we could have avoided all those devastating second chance points.

Thanks for your post.

 

[weepinwillow]

Is Okoro a 'good player'? That's yet to be determined. He's a very solid defender. He plays hard. But there's a lot of things that go into being a good overall player.

I think his shot holds him back from being a "good player" but he has a phenomenal floor game and doesn't play like he doesn't know how to (which a lot of rookies do). His defense isn't simply a product of effort, but of knowing how to force players to the help, how to recover on the pnr and where to rotate on the help, when to provide help in the lane without being out of position to recover. On offense he sees the floor well, he cuts off the ball in the right spots, and spaces the floor well, doesn't force things that aren't there, makes the right pass off penetration.
He probably defers to a fault right now, and he absolutely needs a more consistent jumper. A solid C&S 3 point shot makes him a very good NBA starting level G/F given his defense.
I'm fine with how he's playing. I don't need to see 4-6 rebounds, or 10-15 points and 40% from 3 yet. He gives consistent effort with a relentless motor and a smart game every night. Some nights he will get points, some nights assists, some nights rebounds, sometimes everything, sometimes none of the boxscore stuff will show up, but from what I've seen he will give you the same level of play.

 

[Dr. Claw]

I think his shot holds him back from being a "good player" but he has a phenomenal floor game and doesn't play like he doesn't know how to (which a lot of rookies do). His defense isn't simply a product of effort, but of knowing how to force players to the help, how to recover on the pnr and where to rotate on the help, when to provide help in the lane without being out of position to recover. On offense he sees the floor well, he cuts off the ball in the right spots, and spaces the floor well, doesn't force things that aren't there, makes the right pass off penetration.
He probably defers to a fault right now, and he absolutely needs a more consistent jumper. A solid C&S 3 point shot makes him a very good NBA starting level G/F given his defense.
I'm fine with how he's playing. I don't need to see 4-6 rebounds, or 10-15 points and 40% from 3 yet. He gives consistent effort with a relentless motor and a smart game every night. Some nights he will get points, some nights assists, some nights rebounds, sometimes everything, sometimes none of the boxscore stuff will show up, but from what I've seen he will give you the same level of play.

Right. I get comments sometimes that he shouldn't even be in the NBA. I've seen far worse than Okoro. What he does is enough for now.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Okoro is playing more minutes than any other rookie, is tasked with guarding the other teams best perimeter player, was not a big time college scorer but is being drilled for not shooting more now, is responsible for being drafted as a sf yet is undersized, and now drilled for being an atrocious rebounder on a team that is generally a pretty good rebounding team without a set pf. Got it.

He doesn't score, he can't create his own shot, he's shooting 30% from deep, and he doesn't have any assists. Until his offensive game develops he needs to contribute as a defender and rebounder (which is part of defense). But he's not rebounding, either, despite being 6'5" and having a big vertical.

The Cavs are near the bottom of the league in defensive rebounding. They could use more rebounds from Okoro, and Cedi as well for that matter.

As for Sexton and Garland they are better off leaking out and getting easy points in transition than going for defensive rebounds.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Other than playing hard and being pretty good defensively, what exactly makes him a good player?

Playing hard doesn't make somebody a good player. For the money these guys make it's the minimum to be expected.

Okoro has the potential to be a good player, IMO. He just turned 20. But he has a long way to go. Fortunately he's with a team that believes in him and will give him the coaching and the minutes he needs.

Hopefully he'll put in the time in the off-season to develop his jump shot, especially from deep, and also improve his ball-handling and ability to change direction on the dribble and get to the rim.

 

[MJTampa]

I still desperately want a championship for the Browns, Indians.

The Cavs at least ended our 50+ year drought with a championship in 2016. Because of that, I'm a-ok with becoming a "treadmill team" if it means soon becoming a pesky 7/8/9 seed that no one wants to face in the 1st round, and peaking as a 4/5 seed who can win a playoff series and maybe luck into another series win after that if all ends well.

I'd LOVE another Cavs championship in the next decade or two. But I also know how absurdly lucky we had to be to make that happen once, and I also know what it's like for them to be a perennially awful team year after year. So that's why I'm fine with being something like the Pacers or Jazz of the last couple decades for a while. At least it means seeing decent quality basketball more often than not, rather than rooting for draft luck year after year.

Actually, we were absurdly UNlucky that it only happened once. We almost won in 2015 without Love and Irving, and definitely would have won with them. Then we won in 2016. GS saw that they very well should have been 0-2 against us in Finals, and lucked out into having Durant available and willing to go there...otherwise, we could've had 1-2 more after 2016, too. Anyway, old news, and I'm glad we got the one we got, as you are, too.

 

[buzzdog]

Anyone else confused that Windler and Okoro are both listed at 6’6”.... but when given similar minutes, Windler is clearly the better rebounder.

How is Okoro so atrocious at rebounding? For the minutes he receives it’s like..... legendary bad

I think Okoro releases for potential fast breaks that don't always happen.

 

[ryanf]

I wasn’t talking about Altman! I’m talking about our scouting department! I know I’ll get blasted for this but I am still not sold on Cedi or Windler (both too inconsistent)
Okoro over Haliburton? Drafting two undersized guards in back to back years? Koby has only been GM here three years and I have already listed four question marks!

i won't over react with okoro instead of haliburton. the season is not over yet. and btw, haliburton is already injured. his frail frame is a concern, as well as his preference of team.

tell me, who is doing better than garland right now that was drafted later than him?

see.. i've just reduced your question marks to zero.

 

[CavsFan07]

i won't over react with okoro instead of haliburton. the season is not over yet. and btw, haliburton is already injured. his frail frame is a concern, as well as his preference of team.

tell me, who is doing better than garland right now that was drafted later than him?

see.. i've just reduced your question marks to zero.

Tyler Herro

 

[Ohioplayer00]

Tyler Herro

Coby White as well.....

 

[Ohioplayer00]

i won't over react with okoro instead of haliburton. the season is not over yet. and btw, haliburton is already injured. his frail frame is a concern, as well as his preference of team.

tell me, who is doing better than garland right now that was drafted later than him?

see.. i've just reduced your question marks to zero.

When it comes to injuries I’ll pass on Halliburton and all of today’s NBA players because I feel they are soft nowadays. Sore shoulder, sore hamstring, stiff back etc. BTW I noticed you left out Cedi and Windler!