2020-21 Offseason Discussion

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Kevalier

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In my opinion, the Indians would be much better suited throwing whatever pennies Paul allows the front office to spend towards re-signing Cesar Hernandez or at least a 2B of his caliber if the Lindor trade doesn’t bring back a starting 2B. Tyler Freeman and Owen Miller won’t be on the opening day roster for a couple different reasons, so the team needs a legitimate player to at least be a stopgap at the position for this season. Regarding Santana, unless the team can sign him to an NRI, I don’t see him returning with the internal options they have at 1B, (Naylor, Bauers and Bradley.)
 

TFIR

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Totally agree on Cesar - but seems to me he might get a 2 year deal for his past season from someone. In that case, I'd still do it assuming the annual number is reasonable.
 

MadThinker88

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In my opinion, the Indians would be much better suited throwing whatever pennies Paul allows the front office to spend towards re-signing Cesar Hernandez or at least a 2B of his caliber if the Lindor trade doesn’t bring back a starting 2B. Tyler Freeman and Owen Miller won’t be on the opening day roster for a couple different reasons, so the team needs a legitimate player to at least be a stopgap at the position for this season. Regarding Santana, unless the team can sign him to an NRI, I don’t see him returning with the internal options they have at 1B, (Naylor, Bauers and Bradley.)
I also agree regarding Cesar.. As for 1B I fully expect Bobby Bradley to be a roster casualty to open up 40 man space to protect players in the R5 draft. It was telling he got ZERO time in Cleveland as part of the summer camp or part of the season or even as part of the playoff bubble. If Bradley returns on a minor league deal fine but I suspect that Bobby will go looking for another organization/ opportunity to play....
 

sportscoach

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I also agree regarding Cesar.. As for 1B I fully expect Bobby Bradley to be a roster casualty to open up 40 man space to protect players in the R5 draft. It was telling he got ZERO time in Cleveland as part of the summer camp or part of the season or even as part of the playoff bubble. If Bradley returns on a minor league deal fine but I suspect that Bobby will go looking for another organization/ opportunity to play....
Who are you planning on protecting in the Rule 5?
 

MadThinker88

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Who are you planning on protecting in the Rule 5?
Fair question... My list to protect:
Nolan Jones
Gabrial Arias
Jose Fermin
Eli Morgan
I also protect 2 of following 3 arms: Luis Oviedo/ Carlos Vargas/ Gregori Vasquez

I would also look to have 2 or 3 open spots on the 40 man to absorb players from:
a) a trade of Lindor (or some other Tribe talent)
b) a signing/ resigning of a FA player
c) possible selection of a player another team leaves exposed in the R5 draft..

That means 8 to 9 spots being opened on the roster. Players going into Free agency & non-tendering of some players will accomplish most of that but some space will still need to be made.
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EDIT: For the record I plan to exercise the option on Brad Hand. I really like the idea of Hand/ Karinchak/ Clase at the back of the Tribe bullpen.. Wittgren/ Cam Hill/ Maton/ & other internal options can round out the group. If another team wants Brad Hand they can make an offer (either during the off-season or leading up to the next trade deadline)..
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What is you list? Which way are you going??
 
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sportscoach

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Fair question... My list to protect:
Nolan Jones
Gabrial Arias
Jose Fermin
Eli Morgan
I also protect 2 of following 3 arms: Luis Oviedo/ Carlos Vargas/ Gregori Vasquez

I would also look to have 2 or 3 open spots on the 40 man to absorb players from:
a) a trade of Lindor (or some other Tribe talent)
b) a signing/ resigning of a FA player
c) possible selection of a player another team leaves exposed in the R5 draft..

That means 8 to 9 spots being opened on the roster. Players going into Free agency & non-tendering of some players will accomplish most of that but some space will still need to be made.

What is you list? Which way are you going??
At the current moment we had 41 on the 40 man, 3 are free agents, Hernandez, O. Perez and Leon.

Then its really looking like Hand and Carlos option years won't be taken.

Putting us down to 36. Then I personally would cut Cimber, Plutko, Zimmer (try to outright all three).

Putting us at 33, We can still cut DeShields. If Jones ends up in the OF not 3B, I'd be willing to do that, so down to 32. Mike Freeman I would personally keep because our INF is pretty much right handed, we need an utility from the left side.

Lindor trade likely will merit a guy on the 40 man roster keeping it at 32.

Now at the current moment, I am not sure who is at 2B, SS, Closer, plus we have no lefties in the bullpen. We did cut two OFs, but we had 10 on the roster, so I am not worried about losing 2 there. No starters though are 100% established.

Now we all agree upon keeping Arias, Jones and Morgan. So that would put our roster to 35, so 5 more spots to fill.

We have to get a left handed reliever, Gose can declare a free agent if we dont add him, so I am guessing one-two of the spots will be a left handed reliever. So let's say we add two lefties. Putting us at 37. With three spots left i am guessing its going to be Clement, Fermin and one of those pitchers you mentioned.

So my 40 man roster...

Out: O. Perez, Hand, Carlos, Hernandez, Leon, Cimber, Plutko, Zimmer, DeShields.

Added: 2 lefty relievers (Gose?, veteran?) Jones, Arias, Clement, Morgan, Player in lindor trade, and A pitcher (Oviedo?).

Bradley gets cut/hopefully outrighted if we resign Santana, is Mejia better than the other guys you mentioned? Has Bauers matured? Mike Freeman worth keeping one more year? Which Maton will be in 21? Hill worth keepiing?

Thoughts?
 
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Steve_424

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Expectation across the league is that we’ll see a record number of non-tendered players, which will create an overflowing free-agent class....Free agency could move at a Melky Cabrera-like pace, given the expected surge in supply and the lack of demand.

This gives me hope the Indians can afford to sign a Cesar Hernandez or Carlos Santana or maybe a productive DH type which would move Reyes to right field and at least solve one outfield problem. Or just sign an outfielder.

I'm wondering if the agents for these non-tendered players will advise them to sign early and for less than they were hoping so as not to be the last player standing when the music stops. If the belief is that some teams will be so strapped that they will just go with a Yu Chang or Owen Miller as their Opening Day starter rather than pay $5 million for a Cesar Hernandez then maybe the veterans will just take a one-year COVID pay cut in hopes of having a good year and making the money back next year rather than be left without a big league job in 2021.
I want Santana back. I know money talks, but his year in Philly was awful for him, he has a great relationship with Tito and the Front Office, and the Indians will need a vet leader more than ever next season as they likely start a youth movement. I also think he'll bounce back next year.

With that said if Jones is getting outfield reps, it's hard to see Santana returning. You can't play Naylor and a guy (Jones) just learning the position in the corners, at least I don't think you can. What does make sense is Jones in a corner and Naylor at 1B.

C-Perez
1B-Naylor
2B-
SS-Chang
3B-Ramirez
LF-
CF-Mercado
RF-N. Jones/Luplow
DH-Reyes

2B (or SS) and LF filled by the Lindor trade and/or cheap veteran free agents.
 

sportscoach

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I want Santana back. I know money talks, but his year in Philly was awful for him, he has a great relationship with Tito and the Front Office, and the Indians will need a vet leader more than ever next season as they likely start a youth movement. I also think he'll bounce back next year.

With that said if Jones is getting outfield reps, it's hard to see Santana returning. You can't play Naylor and a guy (Jones) just learning the position in the corners, at least I don't think you can. What does make sense is Jones in a corner and Naylor at 1B.

C-Perez
1B-Naylor
2B-
SS-Chang
3B-Ramirez
LF-
CF-Mercado
RF-N. Jones/Luplow
DH-Reyes

2B (or SS) and LF filled by the Lindor trade and/or cheap veteran free agents.
If Santana is back, Jones is at AAA. I think Jones will start there anyways to be honest at least to start the season, with or without Santana.
 

petes999

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If Santana is back, Jones is at AAA. I think Jones will start there anyways to be honest at least to start the season, with or without Santana.
I think we are discounting the training at LC ... sure it was only 3 or so months. But, if Jones needed to work vs LH pitching, you can have him do that 3 out of 7 days ... only focusing on that when hitting. If he needed work at 3B or 1B, you pull him from simulated game and have a coach hit him grounders for an hour (more than he gets in a month at AAA only playing games). Sure if he plays OF, he will start in AAA due logjam of mediocrity vets. But can be short stint due to Super 2 time...
 

sportscoach

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I think we are discounting the training at LC ... sure it was only 3 or so months. But, if Jones needed to work vs LH pitching, you can have him do that 3 out of 7 days ... only focusing on that when hitting. If he needed work at 3B or 1B, you pull him from simulated game and have a coach hit him grounders for an hour (more than he gets in a month at AAA only playing games). Sure if he plays OF, he will start in AAA due logjam of mediocrity vets. But can be short stint due to Super 2 time...
My guess is AAA especially if he is working on changing to another position. But its not like he cannot earn it, I just dont expect it in 21
 

CDAV45

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I wouldn't waste a roster spot to protect Morgan. I just don't see him being picked or sticking if he is. If he does what are we out? SP isn't an issue and is arguably the deepest position in the system along with MIF.

I won't be upset if Hernandez and Santana are signed, but I don't believe it will happen. I think it's time to move on and I wish Los nothing but the best. However, we have all of Naylor, Bauers, Bradley, and even Jones to consider for 1B. If one of the 2 is resigned I believe it will be Hernandez, but I don't think he'll be back either. I suspect this Miller kid has caught their eye and Freeman isn't too far off.

One thing about this odd season to consider. Those prospects(like Jones and Johnson) who were fortunate enough to be assigned to the alternate sight faced better pitching than they would have normally. I'm curious if Jones' development benefitted or if it had no difference.

I'm confident that we will not see any of Lindor, Santana, Hand, Hernandez, DeShields, Naquin, and one of Perez/Hedges wearing Indian uniforms in 2021. What I have no inclination of is who will make up the roster. Will the Lindor trade provide a corner OFer, or will any/all of Jones, Bauers, Naylor, Johnson, Reyes, and Luplow be covering LF and RF?

I still think it was a big mistake not trading Hand this past deadline. Now he walks and all we do is wave because they are not picking up his $10M option. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell, unless another team has agreed to take that money on in a trade.
 

sportscoach

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I wouldn't waste a roster spot to protect Morgan. I just don't see him being picked or sticking if he is. If he does what are we out? SP isn't an issue and is arguably the deepest position in the system along with MIF.

I won't be upset if Hernandez and Santana are signed, but I don't believe it will happen. I think it's time to move on and I wish Los nothing but the best. However, we have all of Naylor, Bauers, Bradley, and even Jones to consider for 1B. If one of the 2 is resigned I believe it will be Hernandez, but I don't think he'll be back either. I suspect this Miller kid has caught their eye and Freeman isn't too far off.

One thing about this odd season to consider. Those prospects(like Jones and Johnson) who were fortunate enough to be assigned to the alternate sight faced better pitching than they would have normally. I'm curious if Jones' development benefitted or if it had no difference.

I'm confident that we will not see any of Lindor, Santana, Hand, Hernandez, DeShields, Naquin, and one of Perez/Hedges wearing Indian uniforms in 2021. What I have no inclination of is who will make up the roster. Will the Lindor trade provide a corner OFer, or will any/all of Jones, Bauers, Naylor, Johnson, Reyes, and Luplow be covering LF and RF?

I still think it was a big mistake not trading Hand this past deadline. Now he walks and all we do is wave because they are not picking up his $10M option. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell, unless another team has agreed to take that money on in a trade.
Morgan will replace Plutko in my mind. Plutko is older without options, while Morgan has more upside and 3 option years. You are underestimating Morgan to be quite honest.
 

CDAV45

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Not to change the subject, but the Indians need to be careful that they don't become to LH heavy. All of Jones, Naylor, Bauers, Johnson, Bradley, and Naquin are LH hitters.
 

CDAV45

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Morgan will replace Plutko in my mind. Plutko is older without options, while Morgan has more upside and 3 option years. You are underestimating Morgan to be quite honest.
I'm not underestimating him at all. I think he's doing one helluva job, but he's down the pecking order a good bit. He's not a "stuff" guy and is the poster child for pitchability. I tell you what, I wouldn't be upset if they replaced Plutko with Morgan, but I don't want to lose a prospect with a higher ceiling. That's just my $.02.
 
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