2020 Around the MLB Thread

[jup]

But how, exactly? To market someone by lifestyle and personality, they must either 1) have so much attention drawn to them for other reasons that people care about their lifestyle/personality, or 2) their lifestyle and personality themselves are so interesting that even non-fans want to follow them. 2) is the route that, for example, the Kardashians took. Baseball players would be 1). But I just don't see how you get ordinary people so interested in the lifestyles and personalities of baseball players that they'll actually watch the games.



Exactly how do you do that in a significant way? The very nature of baseball simply doesn't give nearly as many opportunities for that kind of thing as does basketball or football. It's a more sedate game in terms of the game itself.



I just don't see that moving the needle very much in terms of fan interest in watching games.



Baseball doesn't need social media followers -- It needs fans to go to the games or watch them regularly on TV. The kind of stuff you're describing might help an individual player build a niche instagram following. I don't think it makes more people actually watch baseball. Why should they? They can just get the bat flips on their social media feeds, and skip the boring (to them...) games.

ETA: And there's no need to take gratuitous shots at another poster who isn't in this conversation.

You couple on field identity to personality and lifestyle, so that fan interest extends beyond the white lines. And you use that to build the following for players in the sport. Young people now watch players more than teams and one of the problems MLB has had is they don't market players.

I am a JJ Reddick fan because I watched him play at Duke. I will tune into an NBA game here or there to see him play, other than that I do not watch the NBA at all. But I became a fan of JJ at Duke and have followed him (hit and miss) ever since. The NBA gets one more set of eyes occasionally then they would have otherwise. Makes no difference what team he is on, in fact there are years I have no clue what team he is on, but if one of my friends is going to a game and JJ is playing I probably tag along. And they follow the sport, and know I am a JJ fan, so they know when to invite me.

But that is not baseballs way, because "no player is bigger than the game itself" is one of the dogmas. So you have to market the name on the front of the shirt not the back. But in this day and age, that doesn't captivate young fans and build a following out into the future.

I remember Billy Martin and Earl Weaver still, because of the battles with the umps. Great theater, and one of the things that helped bind me to baseball. But it was their personalities, not the team they managed. However, my interest in them and what they were up to helped solidify my interest in baseball. And now, I watch baseball as a pro sport exclusively. Have no interest or will I give up the time for any other than UFC.

You catch young peoples attention through social media these days, and baseball DOES NEED many more SOCIAL MEDIA followers.

 

[jup]

ETA: And there's no need to take gratuitous shots at another poster who isn't in this conversation.

I guess you differentiate between veiled

CATS said:

Funny, I never saw anybody predict that Kluber would start the season with tightness in the back of his shoulder, but now we have somebody crowing about it.

But we still have a handful of folks who denigrate him constantly, while championing a somebody who cant come close to Kluber in production, consistency, dependability, team leadership, and character.

and direct

Jup said:

But old timers (like CATS) think the game has to be played in the stoic

Shots

And I am sure you are not aware of the history CATS and I have. Rightfully so.

But if he is going to take shots at me (veiled as they are to you) I am going to give it right back Q. And at some point, I hope hearing about it from me has it goes both ways.

 

[jup]

nm

 

[Martyinnewyork]

First of all, I’m hoping Jup and CATS can stop the back-and-forth sniping. Both have positives to contribute to this forum.

Regarding baseball’s appeal to kids. Baseball is a very complex game. As said earlier, kids today have to have their interest captured quickly, they are used to getting their information within their 30 second attention span. Baseball isn’t learned in 30 seconds. This partly explains soccer’s appeal vs. baseball’s appeal. You can pretty much understand soccer in about ten seconds. I kick it towards your goal, I can’t touch the ball with my hands, only the goalie can use the hands. Baseball has MANY subtleties. Explain to a kid the infield fly rule. Explain the strategy behind the safety squeeze bunt. Force outs. Tagging on a fly ball. Why is it a fair ball if it goes over the base on the ground but not necessarily a fair ball if it goes over the base in the air? On and on. When I go to a minor league baseball game, most of the fans under 20 are there for fireworks or a bobblehead. People aren’t even able to figure out when to cheer unless they’re prompted by the scoreboard - MAKE NOISE!!!!

 

[AZ_]

First of all, I’m hoping Jup and CATS can stop the back-and-forth sniping. Both have positives to contribute to this forum.

Regarding baseball’s appeal to kids. Baseball is a very complex game. As said earlier, kids today have to have their interest captured quickly, they are used to getting their information within their 30 second attention span. Baseball isn’t learned in 30 seconds. This partly explains soccer’s appeal vs. baseball’s appeal. You can pretty much understand soccer in about ten seconds. I kick it towards your goal, I can’t touch the ball with my hands, only the goalie can use the hands. Baseball has MANY subtleties. Explain to a kid the infield fly rule. Explain the strategy behind the safety squeeze bunt. Force outs. Tagging on a fly ball. Why is it a fair ball if it goes over the base on the ground but not necessarily a fair ball if it goes over the base in the air? On and on. When I go to a minor league baseball game, most of the fans under 20 are there for fireworks or a bobblehead. People aren’t even able to figure out when to cheer unless they’re prompted by the scoreboard - MAKE NOISE!!!!

Soccer DEFINITELY has those intricacies too.

Some folks wouldn’t know that because they’ve likely (like me) spent their majority of their lives playing and learning other sports like baseball’s intricacies.

 

[Urban]

You can absolutely understand baseball in about ten seconds. Hit ball, get on base, run bases to score runs.

I could go on and on about what could be confusing to a 6 year old first time watcher about football or basketball too. Those sports certainly have plenty of their own intricacies. Soccer is more straightforward than the other 3, but my friends who only watch or pay attention when the USA is in the World Cup need offside rules explained.

 

[Martyinnewyork]

Football definitely has a ton of intracacies as well. However, the NFL has done a masterful job of marketing itself. Football has managed to convince every American that Super Bowl Sunday is a national holiday event that MUST BE WATCHED. Baseball’s World Series used to be like that, many years ago. But no more.

Soccer has offsides as an intricacy. Everything else is pretty self-explanatory. Maybe direct vs indirect free kicks is tough to figure. Not much else.

Baseball simple? Hit the ball, run the bases? Really? A fly ball that’s caught stops you from running the bases. You can run the bases after a walk, which doesn’t involve hitting the ball. You can run the bases after striking out if the ball gets away from the catcher. On and on...

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I think most parents would rather have their kids play soccer because they get a lot more exercise. Kids get bored standing in the field watching their 8-year-old teammate struggle to throw strikes and when he does the ball is rarely put in play. But if you are growing up in a poor Latin American country and you don' thave a cell phone or a video game player there's nothing to do except play baseball, which is one reason why most of the pros are from Latin America. All but one of the Indians starting lineup yesterday (including the DH and the starting pitcher) were hispanic. The fact that there's probably somebody from your town who made millions of dollars playing major league baseball adds to the incentive.

As for promoting individual players, the nature of the sport makes it tough. In basketball your star player can shoot 30 times a game and if it comes down to the final shot he's taking it every time. In baseball your star hitter may not be due up when your team is down by a run in the 9th, or if he is they may intentionally walk him. Your ace pitcher may not be due to pitch in the deciding game.

Can you imagine the game coming down to one shot and LeBron not being able to take it because it's not his turn to shoot? Or the Patriots needing a win to get to the Super Bowl but Tom Brady can't play because he played the last game? If Mike Trout is not due up this inning he's not coming up.

In football your quarterback has the ball in his hands every play and if you have a great running back the defense can't prevent him from getting the ball 30 times a game. Baseball is the only major sport where your superstar hitter may be stuck in the dugout when the game is being decided, or your Cy Young starter may miss the game entirely because he went 8 innings the day before.

So I think it's easier to have superstars in other sports, although it was pretty exciting when Bonds and Sosa were chasing Maris' record and nobody knew they were juicing. With baseball it is more about the team and appreciating the subtleties of the game.

 

[Urban]

Football definitely has a ton of intracacies as well. However, the NFL has done a masterful job of marketing itself. Football has managed to convince every American that Super Bowl Sunday is a national holiday event that MUST BE WATCHED. Baseball’s World Series used to be like that, many years ago. But no more.

Soccer has offsides as an intricacy. Everything else is pretty self-explanatory. Maybe direct vs indirect free kicks is tough to figure. Not much else.

Baseball simple? Hit the ball, run the bases? Really? A fly ball that’s caught stops you from running the bases. You can run the bases after a walk, which doesn’t involve hitting the ball. You can run the bases after striking out if the ball gets away from the catcher. On and on...

I didn't say it's simple, I said the goal of the game is easy to understand, as is the case with other sports

The goal of basketball is to get the ball in the hoop and stop the opposing team from doing so. Knowing that, it's easy to understand. But is basketball simple? Lane violation, moving screens, charge vs blocking foul, personal vs. technical vs. flagrant vs. intentional fouls, the bonus, goaltending, etc. I could go on and on about the intricacies of basketball's (and football's) different rules as you could do with baseball.

You said baseball is a complex sport and isn't learned in 30 seconds; the same could be said for football and basketball. That, to me suggests, that baseball's "complexity" isn't an issue when it comes to its popularity waning. You mentioned it yourself:, marketing, it is what sets these leagues apart.

 

[AZ_]

MLB is easily the worst of the three professional sports at marketing itself and its talent.

They had Mike Trout doing a disco themed commercial last year. It's embarrassing, and there is really no excuse for it.

Most especially from those who don't understand the power of social media for expanding your reach and keeping people turned on to your product.

 

[AZ_]

Season seems to be at a major roadblock and they're three games in.

Not unsurprising.

 

[LL3]

But how, exactly? To market someone by lifestyle and personality, they must either 1) have so much attention drawn to them for other reasons that people care about their lifestyle/personality, or 2) their lifestyle and personality themselves are so interesting that even non-fans want to follow them. 2) is the route that, for example, the Kardashians took. Baseball players would be 1). But I just don't see how you get ordinary people so interested in the lifestyles and personalities of baseball players that they'll actually watch the games.



Exactly how do you do that in a significant way? The very nature of baseball simply doesn't give nearly as many opportunities for that kind of thing as does basketball or football. It's a more sedate game in terms of the game itself.



I just don't see that moving the needle very much in terms of fan interest in watching games.



Baseball doesn't need social media followers -- It needs fans to go to the games or watch them regularly on TV. The kind of stuff you're describing might help an individual player build a niche instagram following. I don't think it makes more people actually watch baseball. Why should they? They can just get the bat flips on their social media feeds, and skip the boring (to them...) games.

ETA: And there's no need to take gratuitous shots at another poster who isn't in this conversation.

My 21 year old college soccer playing son is a big fan of the futbol..."watches" most games on 9 minute highlight vids on YouTube. He'll occasionally watch a full game, but typically that is a "big" game. For reference, Soccer matches almost never last more than 2 hours. He watches baseball, football, and basketball much the same way....anecdotal, but he is not atypical among his peers in this manner.

 

[LL3]

Football definitely has a ton of intracacies as well. However, the NFL has done a masterful job of marketing itself. Football has managed to convince every American that Super Bowl Sunday is a national holiday event that MUST BE WATCHED. Baseball’s World Series used to be like that, many years ago. But no more.

Soccer has offsides as an intricacy. Everything else is pretty self-explanatory. Maybe direct vs indirect free kicks is tough to figure. Not much else.

Baseball simple? Hit the ball, run the bases? Really? A fly ball that’s caught stops you from running the bases. You can run the bases after a walk, which doesn’t involve hitting the ball. You can run the bases after striking out if the ball gets away from the catcher. On and on...

C'mon Marty-- do not try to lure me into a soccer brawl! There is lots of nuance to the game...offside is their intricacy??? Be better or leave it alone.

 

[dkbldev]

My 21 year old college soccer playing son is a big fan of the futbol..."watches" most games on 9 minute highlight vids on YouTube. He'll occasionally watch a full game, but typically that is a "big" game. For reference, Soccer matches almost never last more than 2 hours. He watches baseball, football, and basketball much the same way....anecdotal, but he is not atypical among his peers in this manner.

That is also how I watch most games, the 9 min youtube videos save so much time and allow me to see most of the league games each week

 

[LL3]

That is also how I watch most games, the 9 min youtube videos save so much time and allow me to see most of the league games each week

I think this makes all the more sense if you are a fan of the sport/league, in a broad way rather than just "your team"...but it is no doubt a big time savings.