2020 NBA Draft

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JJ_PR

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I think we have reached sort of the point of no return here though........if we are talking receiving a reasonable offer for Garland. We needed him to perform really well in year 1........and not just be meh.

The only trade route, to me, is gambling on Garland reaching his ceiling (whatever that may be) and selling high on Sexton. If we are unwilling to do that (which I would imagine we are), then I think we are resigned to improving the front court and seeing how much the tandem may improve with another year.
There's a reason Sexton has more trade value. He improved tremendously in his sophomore campaign.

I think Garland still has some trade value himself, especially to a team in need of a point guard. We aren't getting a top 5 pick out of him, but a pick in the teens isn't out of the question imo.
 

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It seems I'm much higher on Garland than most in here.

After no summer league and a limited training camp, he did struggle at times and his defense was awful, but he showed me more than enough to see potential to be a really good NBA player, and a legit starting PG. I think lack of strength and conditioning were the major things holding him back. I still think he was the correct BPA pick at #5.

And regarding him and Sexton playing together, I have no worries at all. We have 3 exciting young guards to develop together, if each play 32 minutes a game, that means the Sexton/Garland duo would be on the court together for just 16 minutes a game. With some creative rotation management, the 16 minutes could be against others 2nd teamers, which would limit the defensive liabilities. The remainder of their individual time on the court would be with Porter Jr., and based on the flashes we saw during the season, I'm pretty exited about the prospects of an incredibly talented 3 guard rotation.

Based on all of the above, I have no interest in drafting a guard. I'm all in with either Wiseman or Okongwu. I'd go with the high ceiling of Wiseman if we get the first pick but wouldn't mind if someone else ended-up with his risk-level and we went with big O, who has a much higher ceiling than many are predicting.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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I think we have reached sort of the point of no return here though........if we are talking receiving a reasonable offer for Garland. We needed him to perform really well in year 1........and not just be meh.

The only trade route, to me, is gambling on Garland reaching his ceiling (whatever that may be) and selling high on Sexton.
Yes, if you want anything back you you have to trade Sexton instead.
If Garland's value is truly that low, then we might as well keep him on the long shot hope his play improves significantly. If it doesn't, then let him play out his contract here as a 3rd/4th guard unless/until we need the roster or salary slot.

I personally think we could still get something for him even now - not a top 10 pick but something.
 

Cavatt

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If Garland's value is truly that low, then we might as well keep him on the long shot hope his play improves significantly. If it doesn't, then let him play out his contract here as a 3rd/4th guard unless/until we need the roster or salary slot.

I personally think we could still get something for him even now - not a top 10 pick but something.
I think Advanced stats have made people lose their minds about rookies. Garland isn't the worst rookie of all time. Plenty of guys never sniffed the court. He has holes in his game for sure, and the defense was terrible, but there is no doubt defense was much better once Beilien was gone. I blamed Love and a lot of the Vets before he left, but their play with JB just looking like they knew what they were doing has changed my mind.

There was serious dysfunction on the team, and even Larry Nance has admitted he was checked out, and he adjusted his attitude. He went from looking like he had regressed to being very good at the end of the season.

As far as I can tell everyone played better with JB on board and hey looked like they were having fun. They played pick and roll much heavier after that and it helped Garland and Sexton and KPJ and the bigs were more involved.

I think making any big decisions before the season starts is a bad idea. Try to evaluate the young guys before the draft to make sure what the needs are, hopefully in the Chicago bubble, and then make your decision on the draft, then decide what to do with Drummond at the deadline. You can package Garland or Sexton at that time if there is a good reason to do so.
 

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It seems I'm much higher on Garland than most in here.

After no summer league and a limited training camp, he did struggle at times and his defense was awful, but he showed me more than enough to see potential to be a really good NBA player, and a legit starting PG. I think lack of strength and conditioning were the major things holding him back. I still think he was the correct BPA pick at #5.

And regarding him and Sexton playing together, I have no worries at all. We have 3 exciting young guards to develop together, if each play 32 minutes a game, that means the Sexton/Garland duo would be on the court together for just 16 minutes a game. With some creative rotation management, the 16 minutes could be against others 2nd teamers, which would limit the defensive liabilities. The remainder of their individual time on the court would be with Porter Jr., and based on the flashes we saw during the season, I'm pretty exited about the prospects of an incredibly talented 3 guard rotation.

Based on all of the above, I have no interest in drafting a guard. I'm all in with either Wiseman or Okongwu. I'd go with the high ceiling of Wiseman if we get the first pick but wouldn't mind if someone else ended-up with his risk-level and we went with big O, who has a much higher ceiling than many are predicting.
I wasn't a fan of the Garland pick, to the point where I bowed out of his thread for awhile after the pick because I was annoying even myself.

But I do agree with your last paragraph, especially about Okongwu. In a draft without clear cut blue chip talent, I'll take the safer double over swinging for the fences. I agree that he might surprise. I also believe he is going to go higher - top 3 - than is currently projected.

The NBA is a copycat league, and teams may look at Okongwu and see the next Adebayo or Siakam.
 
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JJ_PR

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I wouldn't be opposed to keeping both Sexton & Garland, but we need to adress our frontcourt somehow. Love isn't part of our future plans I'd have to think. I don't care how much he makes, we can't derail our draft plans just because we have him on our roster. That mentality could set us back a year or 2.

As for Okongwu, I don't dislike him as a prospect. He has his fair share of qualities, particularly his athleticism for a guy who is 6'9"ish. I'm convinced however, that under the right circumstances, Wiseman will have the much better career. Okongwu has a higher floor & I wouldn't be shocked if the Warriors have OO higher on their board. I could care less about that, I'm on the Wiseman bandwagon.
 
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Lee

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I'm hoping it plays out like the 1987 Cavs.

Embry had just drafted Daugherty and Harper in the first round, and traded a future 2nd rounder to Dallas for Georgia Tech point guard Mark Price. Price looked like a solid backup point guard. He also looked like he might be deacon of an Episcopalian parish. So in the 1987 draft Embry uses a lottery pick on Kevin Johnson. It's great value because this was a very good point guard draft. He had also flipped the starting point guard John Bagley for 15th overall pick Dell Curry, but that is a topic for another day.

So as the 1987 season plays out, it becomes clear Price is more than a backup point guard who looks like an Allstate broker, he is a legit top five point guard. As we all know, that ended in a near perfect trade with the Suns which brought Larry Nance to the Cavs as a combo forward. If Embry had just protected Curry instead of Mike Sanders in the expansion draft the Cavs pick up at least one championship before MJ takes over the league... and maybe another championship later when Steph Curry grows up a Cavaliers fan, but I digress.

Anyways back to the present. The Cavs will say publicly that the Sexland backcourt can work, but we all know it doesn't. However, that doesn't mean the Cavs have to rush the process. We don't know who is the Kevin Johnson and who is the Mark Price yet. If Garland was healthier at the start of the season and the season wasn't cut short, maybe this would be a good time for a trade. I think they are going to focus on the frontcourt in this draft and figure out trades once Garland is less of a mystery.
This is all fine and good, but we already traded for Larry Nance in the modern version and resigned long term. What now, lol.
 

Nathan S

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It seems I'm much higher on Garland than most in here.

After no summer league and a limited training camp, he did struggle at times and his defense was awful, but he showed me more than enough to see potential to be a really good NBA player, and a legit starting PG. I think lack of strength and conditioning were the major things holding him back. I still think he was the correct BPA pick at #5.

And regarding him and Sexton playing together, I have no worries at all. We have 3 exciting young guards to develop together, if each play 32 minutes a game, that means the Sexton/Garland duo would be on the court together for just 16 minutes a game. With some creative rotation management, the 16 minutes could be against others 2nd teamers, which would limit the defensive liabilities. The remainder of their individual time on the court would be with Porter Jr., and based on the flashes we saw during the season, I'm pretty exited about the prospects of an incredibly talented 3 guard rotation.

Based on all of the above, I have no interest in drafting a guard. I'm all in with either Wiseman or Okongwu. I'd go with the high ceiling of Wiseman if we get the first pick but wouldn't mind if someone else ended-up with his risk-level and we went with big O, who has a much higher ceiling than many are predicting.
The problem here is that Sexton+Porter was even worse than Sexton+Garland last year. Realistically, neither Garland nor Porter is a good long-term fit next to Sexton in the backcourt. We can keep putting it off, but at some point we have to trade Sexton or find a player he actually fits with in the backcourt.
 

daddywags

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Kevin Love will play the 2020-21 season at age 32. He is signed for three years or through his age 34 season. I haven't seen a huge drop off in production to indicate a fast decline is near and the guy certainly keeps himself in great physical condition (plus, his game doesn't depend on athleticism). He may not be in long term plans but for the next two or three seasons I see no reason to try to shove him out of the starting lineup.

Do we need a big? Sure, if we don't re-sign TT. But not so much, IMO, that it should drive our draft plan.
 

Nathan S

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Kevin Love will play the 2020-21 season at age 32. He is signed for three years or through his age 34 season. I haven't seen a huge drop off in production to indicate a fast decline is near and the guy certainly keeps himself in great physical condition (plus, his game doesn't depend on athleticism). He may not be in long term plans but for the next two or three seasons I see no reason to try to shove him out of the starting lineup.

Do we need a big? Sure, if we don't re-sign TT. But not so much, IMO, that it should drive our draft plan.
Also, can you find a PF/C who fits next to Love in the late first/early second? Sure. Can you find a big PG who fits next to Sexton in the late first/early second? Hell no.

I wouldn't hate it if we draft Okongwu or Wiseman, but who knows when we'll get another opportunity to add a 6'5"+ PG.
 

JJ_PR

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Kevin Love will play the 2020-21 season at age 32. He is signed for three years or through his age 34 season. I haven't seen a huge drop off in production to indicate a fast decline is near and the guy certainly keeps himself in great physical condition (plus, his game doesn't depend on athleticism). He may not be in long term plans but for the next two or three seasons I see no reason to try to shove him out of the starting lineup.

Do we need a big? Sure, if we don't re-sign TT. But not so much, IMO, that it should drive our draft plan.
The Cavs should operate under the assumption that they need a long term solution at the 4. Love is an albatross of a contract & he hasn't been good in a long time. We need to upgrade the PF position badly.

I don't care how much Love makes, if you can't move him, relegate him to a bench role. I'd go as far as suggest to use the stretch provision on him. He sucks.
 

JJ_PR

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Also, can you find a PF/C who fits next to Love in the late first/early second? Sure. Can you find a big PG who fits next to Sexton in the late first/early second? Hell no.

I wouldn't hate it if we draft Okongwu or Wiseman, but who knows when we'll get another opportunity to add a 6'5"+ PG.
I'd give the Sexton/Porter pairing more time. Porter was just a rookie but he showed flashes of potential. I don't think a tall pg would be a good complement to Sexton. He's at his best with the ball in his hands because of his athleticism, among other things.
 

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I'd give the Sexton/Porter pairing more time. Porter was just a rookie but he showed flashes of potential. I don't think a tall pg would be a good complement to Sexton. He's at his best with the ball in his hands because of his athleticism, among other things.
He was great with Delly, and Delly's nearly washed up. I understand that a lot of Cavs fans are still scarred from the Clarkson Experience, but we should remember that the purpose of a good point guard is to set Sexton up with high-percentage scoring opportunities, not to freeze Sexton out.
 

JJ_PR

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He was great with Delly, and Delly's nearly washed up. I understand that a lot of Cavs fans are still scarred from the Clarkson Experience, but we should remember that the purpose of a good point guard is to set Sexton up with high-percentage scoring opportunities, not to freeze Sexton out.
I didn't take into account the Clarkson experience. I just think putting a pg next to Sexton is not good roster construction.
 

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