2020 Off-Season Rumors/News

[CDAV45]

Bieber is likely a guy they would like to extend past his current FA date if they can, so its likely they are planning on doing that sometime soon. He isnt due Arbitration yet, but I expect the offer to put on the table by the Indians, so Bieber should be in Cleveland a bit longer, hopefully.

For me though the Indians said a retool not a rebuild. Moving both Carrasco and JRam says to me a short rebuild and not a retool since we would only have Perez on this roster thats an accomplished veteran. Hence why actually I think they will actually get the owners money back not in one season but in multiple.

My reasoning for the last statement, if you trade JRam and Carrasco, along with Lindor, you will get the talent you want and cut majority of the payroll, but you won't have a shot in hell to bring back any fans, plus there is no way to compete in the Central either. I mean you can never count it out and Carrasco is possibly replaceable internally, but JRam is not. If you look at the projected 22 team, it's not a whole lot different than the 21, if not actually way more young talent should be available, so the price of talent is going to be way cheaper in a way. I think they will just do 60 mil for both 21,22 and maybe in 23, then in 24 start spending again (aka 24 would be 17 all over again signing like an EE then extending players as well).

Going into this season with holes and a 40 mil budget just cannot happen keeping ahold of JRam and Carrasco plus being able to fill in all those holes with external sources plus competing in the central. I think we arent going as low as people think because we want to stay competitive in the central (which actually isn't going to be easy to win.

What fans are you referring to Coach? There really hasn't been many in several years and that makes the opportunity to trade JRam more sensible IMO. With the payroll around $40M, no fans in the seats is easily covered by the TV deal and revenue sharing checks. The Dodgers are difficult to deal with, but my gut tells me they would give some real value for Ramirez. I'm talking Lux, Gray, and Ruiz could all be had.

Then dealing Carrasco to the Angels for Marsh, Detmers, and another piece would be good for this organization. Possibly immediately because Carrasco's production can theoretically be replaced with in house options. I have a feeling that Logan Allen is on the verge of a breakout season and he's behind all of Bieber, Plesac, Quantrill, Civale, and McKenzie.

Now include the return for Lindor and they won't have any expiring contracts for the next 4 yrs or more. What they will have is an incredible amount of positional talent with one of the better pitching staffs in baseball. It would give the fans multiple players to gravitate to and enjoy for years. Much like they did Lindor, JRam, Carrasco, Kluber and the 90's teams. I think selling off a piece every year is more damaging to attendance than moving multiple players in one fatal swoop and retooling.

Ultimately, if they can get the payroll down to $40M I think they'll take advantage of that opportunity. Then if things return to normal in 21, they'll have the room to make a significant signing or 2 instead of the usual 1 yr, hope they find it again signings.

 

[DCTribefan]

Any trade for prospects must factor in the reduction in minor league clubs. Another 6-2 player trade could overload the farm system with guys having no place to play. On the surface, the concept of too many prospects may sound appealing but in practice it could be a hindrance to our player development.

 

[Gson]

Bieber isn't a FA until 2025 so he is not "veteran capital" in my view so he remains. After Lindor, Carrasco, Ramirez, and maybe Perez, there is no more veteran capital. All that would remain is young, controlled players that could be together for the next 4-6 yrs.

I disagree with the idea of 2022 being the earliest year of "readiness". If I'm selling off Carrasco and Ramirez then there damn well better be some young, talented, and ready players coming back. I'm not interested in long shot prospects with a bunch of hype. I want kids that have been in the upper levels of the minors and thrived.

Young, talented and ready players have a history of anything from inconsistency to outright failure.. Thee biggest jump in talent/performance in baseball is from the minor leagues, mostly at AA/AAA to the big leagues.. There are more HOF'ers who went back to their minor league teams after their ML debut than those who never returned to the minors.. for good reason.. This would give the CLEFO and these "young, talented and ready" kids the chance to reflect and correct whatever area of polish they are lacking during the 2021 season.. In 2022.. expectations should rise.. and rise quickly..

The question was posed.. would Bieber be considered part of the veteran capital? "No" being the answer.. but is that the end of it?

As you've suggested...would the Indians look to extend Bieber well past his 2025 arbitration window (to 2026 or 2027?) making him an Indian through that 2027 season.. What if Bieber decides to Lindor his free agency?.. Doesn't that make him more likely to be considered veteran capital earlier? With a free agency clock ticking toward 2025, doesn't that mean the Indians would need to consider trading him in 2023 or two years from now? Will his value ever be higher than it is right now?. In short.. if a player is drafted/traded for/acquired by the Indians.. shouldn't the front office also include at least "affirmative intent" from the player and representation that a contract extension is doable? Otherwise.. the Indians will become a ML Farm Club and talent development mechanism for the other 29 teams... It's not a bad way to run a business.. but, not if you're looking for a LOT of rings..

Thoughts?

 

[Gson]

Any trade for prospects must factor in the reduction in minor league clubs. Another 6-2 player trade could overload the farm system with guys having no place to play. On the surface, the concept of too many prospects may sound appealing but in practice it could be a hindrance to our player development.

Mostly agree with this.. Darwinian theory says only the strong survive.. Once the total number of place holdings are defined by the number of teams and roster sizes, the six guys coming in won't add to the total.. six other weaker/lesser guys will be eliminated.. thereby proving the adage.. The rising tide talent lifts all ships/MiLB players..

 

[Gson]

What fans are you referring to Coach? There really hasn't been many in several years and that makes the opportunity to trade JRam more sensible IMO. With the payroll around $40M, no fans in the seats is easily covered by the TV deal and revenue sharing checks. The Dodgers are difficult to deal with, but my gut tells me they would give some real value for Ramirez. I'm talking Lux, Gray, and Ruiz could all be had.

Then dealing Carrasco to the Angels for Marsh, Detmers, and another piece would be good for this organization. Possibly immediately because Carrasco's production can theoretically be replaced with in house options. I have a feeling that Logan Allen is on the verge of a breakout season and he's behind all of Bieber, Plesac, Quantrill, Civale, and McKenzie.

Now include the return for Lindor and they won't have any expiring contracts for the next 4 yrs or more. What they will have is an incredible amount of positional talent with one of the better pitching staffs in baseball. It would give the fans multiple players to gravitate to and enjoy for years. Much like they did Lindor, JRam, Carrasco, Kluber and the 90's teams. I think selling off a piece every year is more damaging to attendance than moving multiple players in one fatal swoop and retooling.

Ultimately, if they can get the payroll down to $40M I think they'll take advantage of that opportunity. Then if things return to normal in 21, they'll have the room to make a significant signing or 2 instead of the usual 1 yr, hope they find it again signings.

So.. the talent level amounts to ten guys coming back for Lindor, JRam and Cookie.. those ten being three groups:

Group JRam: Gavin Lux 2B, Josiah Gray SP and Keibert Ruiz C
Group Cookie: Brandon Marsh OF, Reid Detmers SP, and Alexander Ramirez OF
Group Lindor: Clint Frazier OF, Miguel Andujar 1B/3B/LF, Luis Gil SP, Estevan Florial OF

Sign me up !!.. Only the added outfield prospect from the Angels wouldn't be ML or near ML ready by the start of the 2022 season.. Add these ten or so guys to the existing talent pool and Bob Dibiasio would be in HOG HEAVEN!..

Theoretically, it works.. IRL.. it's a HUGE stretch..

Thoughts?..

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I'm for dealing Ramirez now and here's why. The return would be enormous and along with the trades of Lindor and Carrasco, would set this team up for the next 7-10 yrs. It would get this franchise to a safe place financially until things can normalize. It would put a core of players together that wouldn't have to or need to be traded for yrs so the fanbase could get familiar with these guys. Just about every position could be filled with extremely talented players, and it could be done while keeping the payroll extremely low. Should things rebound financially, they would be in position to afford a high end, long term signing.

I think you can pretty much accomplish that just by dealing Lindor and Carrasco. But trading Ramirez isn't the worst thing that could happen assuming they get a windfall of top prospects in exchange for probably the best value in baseball outside of Shane Bieber.

If they traded Lindor, Carrasco, and Hosey this off-season they could start next year with Berto at catcher, Naylor at first base, Reyes at DH, and the other six positions would be filled by players obtained just in those three deals. We'd still have Mercado, Luplow, Daniel Johnson, and Nolan Jones as young talents knocking on the door. The competition for starting spots would be intense. Yeah, it could be interesting to watch that group grow together over the next few years, but even without trading Hosey you would have a similar situation.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

So.. the talent level amounts to ten guys coming back for Lindor, JRam and Cookie.. those ten being three groups:

Group JRam: Gavin Lux 2B, Josiah Gray SP and Keibert Ruiz C
Group Cookie: Brandon Marsh OF, Reid Detmers SP, and Alexander Ramirez OF
Group Lindor: Clint Frazier OF, Miguel Andujar 1B/3B/LF, Luis Gil SP, Estevan Florial OF

Four outfielders, three starting pitchers, a catcher, a second baseman, a third baseman (Andujar replaces JRam), but no shortstop?

If we're set with starters for a while with Bieber, Plesac, McKenzie, Civale, and Quantrill, not to mention Logan Allen and guys like Espino and Hankins working their way up through the system, I'm not sure we need that many starters. I'd try to work a shortstop in there somewhere. I know we're flush with SS prospects but they're all a few years away from what I know.

 

[Steve_424]

One thing to keep in mind with the Indians is that they may target a completely younger group and be more active in free agency. That isn't to say we're going to bring in Realmuto. But I think there's going to be a loooooot of veteran players still sitting at home when Spring Training rolls around just looking for a starting job with a plan to hit the market again next winter when (hopefully) things are more back to normal.

Some names that may fit that mold - Asdrubal Cabrera, Mitch Moreland, Eric Thames, Jonathan Schoop, Jason Kipnis, Dee Strange-Gordon, Todd Frazier, Marwin Gonzalez, Brock Holt, Freddy Galvis, Ryan Braun, Jay Bruce, Jake Marisnick, Kevin Pillar, Matt Joyce, Josh Reddick, Steven Souza Jr., Adam Eaton, Cameron Maybin, etc.

I think at least half of those guys will end up having to accept minor league deals and the Indians may play the long game on a few of them.

 

[LL3]

One thing to keep in mind with the Indians is that they may target a completely younger group and be more active in free agency. That isn't to say we're going to bring in Realmuto. But I think there's going to be a loooooot of veteran players still sitting at home when Spring Training rolls around just looking for a starting job with a plan to hit the market again next winter when (hopefully) things are more back to normal.

Some names that may fit that mold - Asdrubal Cabrera, Mitch Moreland, Eric Thames, Jonathan Schoop, Jason Kipnis, Dee Strange-Gordon, Todd Frazier, Marwin Gonzalez, Brock Holt, Freddy Galvis, Ryan Braun, Jay Bruce, Jake Marisnick, Kevin Pillar, Matt Joyce, Josh Reddick, Steven Souza Jr., Adam Eaton, Cameron Maybin, etc.

I think at least half of those guys will end up having to accept minor league deals and the Indians may play the long game on a few of them.

Agree -- Tribe will be active in the "late in the game" free agent market...probably a better than usual crop available this season.

 

[The Oi]

Whats Matt Laporta up to

 

[Huber.]

Whats Matt Laporta up to

Looking like he just signed up for a Golden Buckeye Card and is excited for the upcoming savings.

 

[Gson]

One thing to keep in mind with the Indians is that they may target a completely younger group and be more active in free agency. That isn't to say we're going to bring in Realmuto. But I think there's going to be a loooooot of veteran players still sitting at home when Spring Training rolls around just looking for a starting job with a plan to hit the market again next winter when (hopefully) things are more back to normal.

Some names that may fit that mold - Asdrubal Cabrera, Mitch Moreland, Eric Thames, Jonathan Schoop, Jason Kipnis, Dee Strange-Gordon, Todd Frazier, Marwin Gonzalez, Brock Holt, Freddy Galvis, Ryan Braun, Jay Bruce, Jake Marisnick, Kevin Pillar, Matt Joyce, Josh Reddick, Steven Souza Jr., Adam Eaton, Cameron Maybin, etc.

I think at least half of those guys will end up having to accept minor league deals and the Indians may play the long game on a few of them.

Free Agency = The Land of Diminishing Returns.. Highly doubtful with the Indians ownership structure they'll EVER be inclined to pursue free agents in general. A fill in.. or a stop gap or a nephew of a the owner might get some play.. but, otherwise.. there is nothing but high cost and sadness from that area of talent acquisition..

W/R to the names listed.. HARD PASS all all of them.. every single one..

 

[Gson]

Four outfielders, three starting pitchers, a catcher, a second baseman, a third baseman (Andujar replaces JRam), but no shortstop?

If we're set with starters for a while with Bieber, Plesac, McKenzie, Civale, and Quantrill, not to mention Logan Allen and guys like Espino and Hankins working their way up through the system, I'm not sure we need that many starters. I'd try to work a shortstop in there somewhere. I know we're flush with SS prospects but they're all a few years away from what I know.

I'm pretty sure that Gavin Lux can fill the SS spot and prove he belongs there or can handle the spot or permenently moves to 2B.. I'd consider Owen Miller for SS after the first month or two out of the gate in 2021 if Yu Chang proves he has not improved his swing and miss tendencies.. What I won't consider is a bloated contract for Simba..or a wildly expensive multi-year deal for Marcus Semien / DiDi Gregorius.. I'd rather fill that slot internally..

 

[sportscoach]

I'm pretty sure that Gavin Lux can fill the SS spot and prove he belongs there or can handle the spot or permenently moves to 2B.. I'd consider Owen Miller for SS after the first month or two out of the gate in 2021 if Yu Chang proves he has not improved his swing and miss tendencies.. What I won't consider is a bloated contract for Simba..or a wildly expensive multi-year deal for Marcus Semien / DiDi Gregorius.. I'd rather fill that slot internally..

I'm not against a low cost veteran to help out with the transition in the INF for a season, but we shouldn't spend too much money on the veteran. Luckily for us, we should be able to acquire one at a decent rate like we did with Hernandez last season. There should be more than normal this season who want that one year deal to wait out the lower pay year of 2021

 

[CDAV45]

So.. the talent level amounts to ten guys coming back for Lindor, JRam and Cookie.. those ten being three groups:

Group JRam: Gavin Lux 2B, Josiah Gray SP and Keibert Ruiz C
Group Cookie: Brandon Marsh OF, Reid Detmers SP, and Alexander Ramirez OF
Group Lindor: Clint Frazier OF, Miguel Andujar 1B/3B/LF, Luis Gil SP, Estevan Florial OF

Sign me up !!.. Only the added outfield prospect from the Angels wouldn't be ML or near ML ready by the start of the 2022 season.. Add these ten or so guys to the existing talent pool and Bob Dibiasio would be in HOG HEAVEN!..

Theoretically, it works.. IRL.. it's a HUGE stretch..

Thoughts?..

Huge stretch indeed, but it would be exciting to watch that particular group and what it could possibly do.....even if only in theory. There would be some serious thump in the lineup. It's fun to talk about, but the chances of it happening are remote.

The ridiculously deep rotation would get even deeper and possibly better. The additions of Gray, Gil, and Detmers would be outstanding. Gil and Detmers aren't quite ready, but slot up nice with Hankins, Cantillo, and Espino. If the Angels preferred one of Civale or McKenzie over Carrasco then I wouldn't let that hold up the deal. They could then deal Carrasco to someone else like the Phillies or the Braves.

I don't think they'll get that much in return for Lindor. I'd guess one of Florial or Andujar would have to be removed. Unless of course one of Perez/Hedges was sent with Lindor. Ultimately, I would be perfectly happy with Lindor and one of Perez/Hedges going to NY with Frazier, Andujar, and Gil coming back.

It would be a challenge to piece all that talent together because inevitably some will get squeezed out. The good news is that most of the new additions will have options. The OF alone would have Frazier, Mercado, Marsh, Naylor/Bauers, Johnson, Luplow, and a few games for Reyes. Bauers and Mercado would probably be on a short leash.

I'm not sure if Andujar and/or Jones can play a passable 3B. If they can't then 1) where do they play and 2) who plays 3B?