2020 Off-Season Rumors/News

[xmasbuck]

if the timing was different perhaps we don't waive him

 

[DCTribefan]

I can't think of anyone that thought the Red Sox would be in on Lindor anyway.

Agree. Just worry about a contracting market for Lindor among big market teams.

 

[CDAV45]

Agree. Just worry about a contracting market for Lindor among big market teams.

Don't worry, there are plenty of teams interested in acquiring his services.

 

[CDAV45]

if the timing was different perhaps we don't waive him

If he wasn't clearly regressing, then maybe he would have been worth $10M. Problem is......he has regressed and picking up the option would have surely stuck the Indians with at least a portion of it because all the other teams also know that he isn't the Brad Hand of 2018.

 

[CDAV45]

You just hate to see it


Wonder if the White Sox double down on their stupidity or pull a 180. No way this ends good or lasts more than two years.

Marcus Stroman is a little, over privileged punk and there have been numerous players of color with better character than his play for LaRussa. I'm not saying LaRussa is a godsend and a savior. If the White Sox hire him, it will be for his ability to win baseball games and WS titles.

 

[MirORich]

Marcus Stroman is a little, over privileged punk and there have been numerous players of color with better character than his play for LaRussa. I'm not saying LaRussa is a godsend and a savior. If the White Sox hire him, it will be for his ability to win baseball games and WS titles.

Disagree but that’s ok. He’s a FA and there are 30 teams. He has every right to find a place that he feels comfortable with from an organizational standpoint. Questioning why the White Sox would hire this day, at his age, with two DUIs this year alone is comeoletely valid. As far as the issue of “racism” those were the intimations of someone else’s tweet in that conversation, not words that came from Stroman himself. But there is a fraternity in baseball and if that was an issue that some players had experience in dealings with LaRussa, he would know about it. Personally I don’t know but again, Stroman is not refusing a trade. He’s commenting on his upcoming FA decision and there will be no shortage of suitors

As far as entitled and overprivileged, pretty sure hands down, that would be LaRussa:


This kind of attitude and refusal to not drive drunk from a guy who managed a player who died in season while drink behind the wheel. “But hey, I’m a winner, check out these rings, you should just let me go, don’t you know who I am?”

 

[CDAV45]

Disagree but that’s ok. He’s a FA and there are 30 teams. He has every right to find a place that he feels comfortable with from an organizational standpoint. Questioning why the White Sox would hire this day, at his age, with two DUIs this year alone is comeoletely valid. As far as the issue of “racism” those were the intimations of someone else’s tweet in that conversation, not words that came from Stroman himself. But there is a fraternity in baseball and if that was an issue that some players had experience in dealings with LaRussa, he would know about it. Personally I don’t know but again, Stroman is not refusing a trade. He’s commenting on his upcoming FA decision and there will be no shortage of suitors

As far as entitled and overprivileged, pretty sure hands down, that would be LaRussa:


This kind of attitude and refusal to not drive drunk from a guy who managed a player who died in season while drink behind the wheel. “But hey, I’m a winner, check out these rings, you should just let me go, don’t you know who I am?”

In no way shape or form do I condone LaRussa's antics, and fuck him if he thinks having a ring places him above the law.

Mod edit - removed racism stuff.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Just listened to the Hoynes/Noga podcast. They pointed out that one of the other teams' owners was quoted as saying the average team lost $100 million last year. The Indians claim they lost "tens of millions" and needed to borrow to meet payroll. Hoynes (or Noga) thinks the Tribe's payroll could get below $50 million this year or perhaps below $40 million if they trade both Lindor and Carrasco.

They said a starting pitcher of Carrasco's abilities is a "bargain" at $12 million, implying there would be interest.

Potentially we're looking at a team starting next year with no Lindor, Carrasco, Santana, Hernandez, and Oliver Perez. Clevinger is already gone. We won't recognize this team come April. But our farm system should move up quite a bit in the rankings.

 

[DCTribefan]

With Strohman accepting a qualifying offer from the Mets, how much has Cookie’s trade value increased?

 

[Gson]

Carrasco's trade value rises slightly.. The $ 19 MM QO or $ 7 MM more than Cookies' salary would be offset by the prospect value returning.. While a relative 'bargain' for an SP of Carrasco's ability, it's still an eight figure salary. Given the mountainous pile of losses experienced by MLB teams.. his salary could be a bridge too far for more than half the teams..

...but it only takes one..

 

[CDAV45]

Kaepernick rightly put focus on systemic racism issues within this country and started many important national conversations. Even Roger Goodell has changed his tune of CK (at least publicly). And while I respect LaRussa as a manager, it's rich for him to ever play moral police when he's out picking up DUIs and managed one of the worst steroid-using teams in modern MLB. Is he a racist? I don't know. Is he a selfish asshole? Absolutely.

Mod edit - continue

How about systematic shitty behavior? Goodell is too big of a coward to take on that fight because he's scared of being labelled a racist by the woke. It was based on a false narrative that is easily debunked when you look at the facts. It certainly hasn't created an atmosphere of cohesion, and if you think you can resolve an issue between 2 parties by falsely laying all the blame at 1 parties' feet then you're sadly mistaken.

I don't know if LaRussa is a selfish asshole or if that was the liquor talking. Either way, there's no excuse for it and it was wrong. I think you are mislead in saying that LaRussa "managed one of the worst steroid-using teams in modern MLB". I've never seen a statistical analysis of which teams were the worst offenders. It's my understanding that it was rampant throughout the league. Whatever is true, clearly he is not on some moral high ground. It is also clear that he knows how to win baseball games and manage a team.

 

[CDAV45]

Just listened to the Hoynes/Noga podcast. They pointed out that one of the other teams' owners was quoted as saying the average team lost $100 million last year. The Indians claim they lost "tens of millions" and needed to borrow to meet payroll. Hoynes (or Noga) thinks the Tribe's payroll could get below $50 million this year or perhaps below $40 million if they trade both Lindor and Carrasco.

They said a starting pitcher of Carrasco's abilities is a "bargain" at $12 million, implying there would be interest.

Potentially we're looking at a team starting next year with no Lindor, Carrasco, Santana, Hernandez, and Oliver Perez. Clevinger is already gone. We won't recognize this team come April. But our farm system should move up quite a bit in the rankings.

I'll recognize all of Bieber, Plesac, Quantrill, Civale, McKenzie, Jones, Naylor, Ramirez, Mercado, Johnson, Reyes and so on. Lindor cannot be equally replaced. It's virtually impossible since he is the best SS in baseball. Carrasco is a damn fine SP and he can be replaced, or very close to it. What we don't know is the return should Lindor and Carrasco be traded. I think it's safe to say that it will be significant and improve this team in other areas along with boosting the system with good prospects.

I'm for dealing Ramirez now and here's why. The return would be enormous and along with the trades of Lindor and Carrasco, would set this team up for the next 7-10 yrs. It would get this franchise to a safe place financially until things can normalize. It would put a core of players together that wouldn't have to or need to be traded for yrs so the fanbase could get familiar with these guys. Just about every position could be filled with extremely talented players, and it could be done while keeping the payroll extremely low. Should things rebound financially, they would be in position to afford a high end, long term signing.

 

[Gson]

I'll recognize all of Bieber, Plesac, Quantrill, Civale, McKenzie, Jones, Naylor, Ramirez, Mercado, Johnson, Reyes and so on. Lindor cannot be equally replaced. It's virtually impossible since he is the best SS in baseball. Carrasco is a damn fine SP and he can be replaced, or very close to it. What we don't know is the return should Lindor and Carrasco be traded. I think it's safe to say that it will be significant and improve this team in other areas along with boosting the system with good prospects.

I'm for dealing Ramirez now and here's why. The return would be enormous and along with the trades of Lindor and Carrasco, would set this team up for the next 7-10 yrs. It would get this franchise to a safe place financially until things can normalize. It would put a core of players together that wouldn't have to or need to be traded for yrs so the fanbase could get familiar with these guys. Just about every position could be filled with extremely talented players, and it could be done while keeping the payroll extremely low. Should things rebound financially, they would be in position to afford a high end, long term signing.

I'll leave the systemic whatever to the who evers.. there are other forums for that discussion and it should be MOVED THERE.. or, at least, removed from here..

So.. it could be inferred from the comment that you're in favor of a deconstruction and rebuild using the Indians' veteran capital that exists on the team.... By eliminating Lindor, Carrasco, Hand and Ramirez.. the payroll number would drop precipitously into the lower forty's or upper 30's leaving the Indians with a WELL stocked cadre of pitching & some position players and a HUGE number of newly infused talent.. All with an eye towrard readiness by 2022 at the earliest.. but no later than 2024?.. Would you include newly minted AL Cy Young winner into that group of veteranl capital? The math doesn't work for Bieber, but it does for everyone else..?

Thoughts?

 

[CDAV45]

I'll leave the systemic whatever to the who evers.. there are other forums for that discussion and it should be MOVED THERE.. or, at least, removed from here..

So.. it could be inferred from the comment that you're in favor of a deconstruction and rebuild using the Indians' veteran capital that exists on the team.... By eliminating Lindor, Carrasco, Hand and Ramirez.. the payroll number would drop precipitously into the lower forty's or upper 30's leaving the Indians with a WELL stocked cadre of pitching & some position players and a HUGE number of newly infused talent.. All with an eye towrard readiness by 2022 at the earliest.. but no later than 2024?.. Would you include newly minted AL Cy Young winner into that group of veteranl capital? The math doesn't work for Bieber, but it does for everyone else..?

Thoughts?

Bieber isn't a FA until 2025 so he is not "veteran capital" in my view so he remains. After Lindor, Carrasco, Ramirez, and maybe Perez, there is no more veteran capital. All that would remain is young, controlled players that could be together for the next 4-6 yrs.

I disagree with the idea of 2022 being the earliest year of "readiness". If I'm selling off Carrasco and Ramirez then there damn well better be some young, talented, and ready players coming back. I'm not interested in long shot prospects with a bunch of hype. I want kids that have been in the upper levels of the minors and thrived.

 

[sportscoach]

I'll leave the systemic whatever to the who evers.. there are other forums for that discussion and it should be MOVED THERE.. or, at least, removed from here..

So.. it could be inferred from the comment that you're in favor of a deconstruction and rebuild using the Indians' veteran capital that exists on the team.... By eliminating Lindor, Carrasco, Hand and Ramirez.. the payroll number would drop precipitously into the lower forty's or upper 30's leaving the Indians with a WELL stocked cadre of pitching & some position players and a HUGE number of newly infused talent.. All with an eye towrard readiness by 2022 at the earliest.. but no later than 2024?.. Would you include newly minted AL Cy Young winner into that group of veteranl capital? The math doesn't work for Bieber, but it does for everyone else..?

Thoughts?

Bieber is likely a guy they would like to extend past his current FA date if they can, so its likely they are planning on doing that sometime soon. He isnt due Arbitration yet, but I expect the offer to put on the table by the Indians, so Bieber should be in Cleveland a bit longer, hopefully.

For me though the Indians said a retool not a rebuild. Moving both Carrasco and JRam says to me a short rebuild and not a retool since we would only have Perez on this roster thats an accomplished veteran. Hence why actually I think they will actually get the owners money back not in one season but in multiple.

My reasoning for the last statement, if you trade JRam and Carrasco, along with Lindor, you will get the talent you want and cut majority of the payroll, but you won't have a shot in hell to bring back any fans, plus there is no way to compete in the Central either. I mean you can never count it out and Carrasco is possibly replaceable internally, but JRam is not. If you look at the projected 22 team, it's not a whole lot different than the 21, if not actually way more young talent should be available, so the price of talent is going to be way cheaper in a way. I think they will just do 60 mil for both 21,22 and maybe in 23, then in 24 start spending again (aka 24 would be 17 all over again signing like an EE then extending players as well).

Going into this season with holes and a 40 mil budget just cannot happen keeping ahold of JRam and Carrasco plus being able to fill in all those holes with external sources plus competing in the central. I think we arent going as low as people think because we want to stay competitive in the central (which actually isn't going to be easy to win.