2020 Starting Pitching Discussion

[xmasbuck]

The Twins are 16-9 but might be having an issue with their starters. They're being carried by two guys; Dobnak (4-1, 1.42) and Maeda (3-0, 2.27). Their expected ace, Jose Berrios, is 1-3, 5.92. Those three have started five games each. Nobody else has started more than two games as they search for pitchers who can fill the #4 and #5 spots in the rotation.

Rich Hill, age 40, has already been on the IL with a "tired arm". He came back last night and didn't make it out of the third inning against the Brewers. Jake Odorizzi has two starts, seven innings, and a 5.14 ERA. He's been out with a back strain and they're "easing" him back into it. Tyler Clippard is the only other pitcher with two starts and he's not a starter. Homer Bailey has only pitched in one game and is on the IL.

I wonder if the ineffectiveness of Berrios and the injuries to their BOR starters are going to catch up with them. Overall the Twins starters are 7th in ERA (3rd in the A.L.) at 3.46, but I wonder if they'll be able to keep it up.

The Twins relievers are 10th in innings pitched at 104; over four innings per game. The Indians are 28th at 68. So after 25 games the Indians bullpen has thrown 36 fewer innings, which projects to 233 fewer innings over a full season. If this were a 162-game season the Twins bullpen would be fried by the time they got to August. They are fortunate this is a short season considering the problems they're having with the back end of the rotation.

perhaps theyre managing their pitching like this IS a short season

their offensive numbers are way off from last season - team ops is down from 830 to 730 and theyre averaging a run less per game

 

[jup]

FWIW, Jason Lloyd of The Athletic thinks the Clevinger/Plesac thing will blow over.

...the Indians can recall both Plesac and Clevinger next week, and they could muddle through the rest of this season together as a grumbling, dysfunctional unit that still performs at a high level....Not everyone has to like each other. Sometimes, you just have to shut up and do your job.

In fact, I tend to think that’s exactly how this will go.

I saw a Mandy Bell interview and she agreed that they won't be traded. I can't see the Indians keeping them down long enough to cost them a year of service time and delay their free agency by a year. That would be a huge hit considering nobody ended up getting the virus as a result of their actions. It would bring the player's union into it and raise the question of whether the Indians' action was more self-serving and not justified.

So I think they'll be back in a week or so, but there's some wishful thinking in that.

Personal opinion only, no inside information on this one but......

If the Indians do press the service time issue, it is Clevinger that is in the principals office. And I would rate the chances of him having his service time clipped by not activating him before Sept 1st at 65% to 75%.

 

[Derek]

For those unfamiliar with Triston McKenzie:

- Ranked as high as #33 prospect by Baseball America in 2018
- Missed last season with a pectoral strain
- Turned 23 earlier this month
- Carried a 2.68 ERA at Akron in 2018 across 90.2 IP
- 4.02 K/BB in his minor league career (10.8/2.7)
- Plus fastball was sitting low-90's but could run it up to 95 at times
- Plus curve in the upper 70's
- Decent change
- Good command

There have long been questions about McKenzie's durability. He suffered from some forearm soreness early in 2018, but his 2019 injury might speak even more to his durability because it may stem from a lack of strength in his shoulder. If he can avoid similar issues going forward, however, he should be able to get back to the high-end upside he's also long shown. His fastball sits at 92 mph and can touch 95. It plays up thanks to long extension and high spin rate. He also has a good feel for his curveball, which can be an out pitch, and his changeup has the potential to be an above-average offering. He commands the ball well and earns praise for his makeup and understanding of his craft.

Triston McKenzie Stats & Scouting Report - Baseball America

Get the latest stats, rankings, scouting reports, and more about Cleveland Guardians player Triston McKenzie on Baseball America

www.baseballamerica.com

 

[BimboColesHair]

Very pumped for McKenzie.

He was, IMO, the top RH starting pitching prospect in all of baseball, not just in the Indians organization, the last time he was fully healthy for a season in 2017 and heading into 2018.

Happy they aren't backing down on their stance with Clev and Plesac too.

 

[Otsego Mar]

If a justification is included with an apology, the apology is trash to me. Anything extravagant or grandiose about your actions or future growth beyond normal conversation is also transparent.

I have found that the best way to move along isn't even to say "I'm sorry" or "I apologize." It's usually best to say what you should have done and what you will do. The simpler the better.

My two boys playing football and break a lamp.
Bad: "I'm sorry, I thought brick hands could catch."
Weird: "Today I have realized that taking care of other's possessions is pivotal in letting them know you understand their value. Throwing foam footballs made by Nerf, a subsidary of Hasbro, within the confines of these walls was not in the best interest of my parental units.
Good: "We shouldn't have thrown the football in here. We'll take it outside."

I miss a due date for an assignment at work:
Bad: "I apologize. I was helping Larry get his charts done before tomorrow's meeting"
Weird: "I have realized that my recent actions within this organization have caused a bottleneck that will affect many others outside of my current department. This does not reflect my true identity, but is only a hiccup in my normal performance."
Good: "I should have prioritized better. I'll get it to you today."

Except their behavior affected nobody.

Not buying it.

 

[Criznit]

Another year off for TMac - not like he had a choice.


He certainly is a top pitching prospect for sure BUT, from 2018 to 2020 he will have pitched 90ish innings in real games. That is a lot of missed time. I assume he is working hard now, but info is scarce.

Personally I think he still has a decent shot at being a meaningful starting pitcher, though he may end up pitching less innings than Salazar did.

 

[LL3]

Except their behavior affected nobody.

Not buying it.

I know you are dug in, but the actions were deeply affecting...that is why it garnered the teammate response that it did.

 

[Otsego Mar]

I know you are dug in, but the actions were deeply affecting...that is why it garnered the teammate response that it did.

Not dug in not buying it.

By the way, I didn't realize his post was from several days ago. For some reason when I clicked the thread it took me back that far in the thread.

 

[LL3]

Another year off for TMac - not like he had a choice.


He certainly is a top pitching prospect for sure BUT, from 2018 to 2020 he will have pitched 90ish innings in real games. That is a lot of missed time. I assume he is working hard now, but info is scarce.

Personally I think he still has a decent shot at being a meaningful starting pitcher, though he may end up pitching less innings than Salazar did.

The fact that they are going to roll him out there on Saturday is saying something about his progress...regardless of his performance, I am really buoyed by the fact they have some confidence in him at this point, rather than going with Allen/bullpen game.

 

[xmasbuck]

The fact that they are going to roll him out there on Saturday is saying something about his progress...regardless of his performance, I am really buoyed by the fact they have some confidence in him at this point, rather than going with Allen/bullpen game.

would be curious about the thinking - and if it says what they really think about allen and maybe even moss

 

[Derek]

would be curious about the thinking - and if it says what they really think about allen and maybe even moss

I think it says more about how they view their former top prospect, and arguably still the most talented player in the system, than it does anything about Moss/Allen.

 

[LL3]

Not dug in not buying it.

By the way, I didn't realize his post was from several days ago. For some reason when I clicked the thread it took me back that far in the thread.

Not buying what? the actions were literally affecting -- moving emotions and feelings of teammates -- pretty passionate at that.. If it is just about passing the virus, fortunately that did not happen -- yes.

 

[LL3]

would be curious about the thinking - and if it says what they really think about allen and maybe even moss

I did consider that Allen may no longer be stretched out, so I guess that would mostly be a bullpen game. No idea as to Moss...have to think Tristan was performing well by whatever measure in Eastlake.

 

[xmasbuck]

I did consider that Allen may no longer be stretched out, so I guess that would mostly be a bullpen game. No idea as to Moss...have to think Tristan was performing well by whatever measure in Eastlake.

that might be - i was thinking allen had pitched v the tigers recently but my daughter reminds me it was v the cubs --- i kinda assumed he would get the start and I was looking forward to it - looking forward a little more to see mckenzie - hope he doesnt pull a greg swindell

 

[Criznit]

The fact that they are going to roll him out there on Saturday is saying something about his progress...regardless of his performance, I am really buoyed by the fact they have some confidence in him at this point, rather than going with Allen/bullpen game.

I am a dummy - I had no idea they were sending him out there on Saturday... WOW...I love it!!!