2021 Draft Prospects Thread

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

bob2the2nd

member 32
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
17,407
Reaction score
13,488
Points
123
Baker's game vs the Ravens was a continuation of what we saw all last season. Couldn't blame it on the line this time either. A new coach/system is going to affect things, but many of the problems I saw with Baker last season were still very apparent yesterday like locking on receivers, fleeing the pocket unecessrily, not identifying open WR, inexplicably overlooking defenders, etc.

Coaching helps correct those problems to a degree, but Baker did those things in college as well. IMO, It was harder to spot in college because he routinely got away with it due to talent disparity.

Given the circumstances, I think Stefanski mostly gets a free pass for the season. No FO is going to come in with huge expectations for a rookie HC in Covid. Just a unique situation. I also think if the Browns are in the position to draft #1, most of the blame is going to get tossed on the failure of Baker Mayfield (Who this coach and FO didn't pick) and not on Stefanski.
I love these discussions. People point to Mayfield as the over arching problem with everything that happened on Sunday, even though he was 1 of about 100 different failures. He is learning his 4th system in 4 years, after having limited practice time and 0 real game reps. Mean while the team was going against a favorite to make the super bowl. But for some reason that doesnt seem to sink in and fans are calling for his head asking for his backup. A TEAM struggle was to be expected on sunday.

I get it, he is the starting QB and he has a target on him. However in the same damn post you say the head coach should get a "free pass" if this team finishes with the worst record in the league, meaning they did DRASTICALLY worse than they have done in the last 2 years. We arent just talking about a team not meeting its season goals, we are talking about a team that won 6 games the year before with freddie fuckign kitchens at the helm, that suddenly has the worst record in the league. If that happens you better be damn well prepared for the entire coaching staff be cleaned out again because absolutely no one would deserve a "Free pass"
 

Los216

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
19,632
Reaction score
16,898
Points
123
I love these discussions. People point to Mayfield as the over arching problem with everything that happened on Sunday, even though he was 1 of about 100 different failures. He is learning his 4th system in 4 years, after having limited practice time and 0 real game reps. Mean while the team was going against a favorite to make the super bowl. But for some reason that doesnt seem to sink in and fans are calling for his head asking for his backup. A TEAM struggle was to be expected on sunday.

I get it, he is the starting QB and he has a target on him. However in the same damn post you say the head coach should get a "free pass" if this team finishes with the worst record in the league, meaning they did DRASTICALLY worse than they have done in the last 2 years. We arent just talking about a team not meeting its season goals, we are talking about a team that won 6 games the year before with freddie fuckign kitchens at the helm, that suddenly has the worst record in the league. If that happens you better be damn well prepared for the entire coaching staff be cleaned out again because absolutely no one would deserve a "Free pass"
Except Baker didn't look like he was learning a new system Sunday. He looked exactly how he looked all last season. There was noting that Baker showed Sunday that led me to believe that he's changed at all from last season except for maybe slimming down a little bit.

I don't understand why people are saying that he looked bad because it's a new system when if you actually watched that game you wouldn't even know that he was playing in a new system. I didn't see anything different with his footwork which was a major point of emphasis this offseason with Van Pelt. I saw a guy that still looked skiddish in the pocket behind a better offensive line that did a pretty damn good job against one of the best defenses in the league. I saw a guy that still is not on the same page with OBJ.
 

Bob_The_Cat

All-Star
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
4,668
Reaction score
5,001
Points
113
I love these discussions. People point to Mayfield as the over arching problem with everything that happened on Sunday, even though he was 1 of about 100 different failures. He is learning his 4th system in 4 years, after having limited practice time and 0 real game reps. Mean while the team was going against a favorite to make the super bowl. But for some reason that doesnt seem to sink in and fans are calling for his head asking for his backup. A TEAM struggle was to be expected on sunday.

I get it, he is the starting QB and he has a target on him. However in the same damn post you say the head coach should get a "free pass" if this team finishes with the worst record in the league, meaning they did DRASTICALLY worse than they have done in the last 2 years. We arent just talking about a team not meeting its season goals, we are talking about a team that won 6 games the year before with freddie fuckign kitchens at the helm, that suddenly has the worst record in the league. If that happens you better be damn well prepared for the entire coaching staff be cleaned out again because absolutely no one would deserve a "Free pass"
Didn't say he deserves a free pass, just saying that given how bad the defense was looking coming into the year and the fact that Baker was picked by a different FO means Stefanski is more likely to get a pass on his first year. The team simply isn't going to be bad enough to be the #1 pick barring a bunch of injuries. If the Browns appear to be heading in that direction, awful QB play is likely to be one of the reasons they're there.

I still think they can be a significantly better-coached team and be more disciplined but still wind up with a worse record than last season, especially if the QB is costing you games (Not saying that happened yesterday, just in general).

Point being, I expected the defense to not be very good for a number of reasons. I thought that if the Browns were to be a respectable team this year, the offense was going to have to carry them. This meant if Baker didn't progress or Wills couldn't handle the transition, the Browns were likely going to be a team that wasn't very fun to watch despite a ton of talent on offense.

It's hard to judge based on the Ravens game alone, but I still didn't see much if any change in Baker's game. He has a lot of issues that need to be corrected, and whether it's tied to having multiple coaching and OC's is irrelevant. The problems are there, and personally I think it's too much to overcome in a season.
 

Amherstcavsfan

Always a Wine and Gold Winner
Browns Moderator
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Messages
16,796
Reaction score
22,205
Points
135
I actually like all 3 of the incoming QB class better than all of the QBs from 2018 and 19 sans maybe Murray, and I'd have Fields over Murray.

I think Lawrence is a bit overrated as a drop back passer but massively overrated as a scrambler and play maker. Trey Lance might be the most developed passer of the 3 but the worst scrambler. And even then, Lance might be a Russell Wilson instead of Lamar or Murray.

So if the Browns do have to move on from Baker and end up with a high pick, I'm down for it to be this class that they go for it.
 

Jack Brickman

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
31,654
Reaction score
40,385
Points
148
Hmm, Stafford is 32...not quite as old as I thought.

Not sure I'd give up a top 5 pick, especially in this draft, for him though.
I wouldn't give up a top five pick for him. A pick in the 10-15 range? 100%.

If Baker plays like he did last year, that's probably where we're picking. I think the team is too talented to pick in the bottom five even with the defensive injuries.
 

Triplethreat

All-Star
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
9,920
Reaction score
7,734
Points
113
I actually like all 3 of the incoming QB class better than all of the QBs from 2018 and 19 sans maybe Murray, and I'd have Fields over Murray.

I think Lawrence is a bit overrated as a drop back passer but massively overrated as a scrambler and play maker. Trey Lance might be the most developed passer of the 3 but the worst scrambler. And even then, Lance might be a Russell Wilson instead of Lamar or Murray.

So if the Browns do have to move on from Baker and end up with a high pick, I'm down for it to be this class that they go for it.
I love all 3.

Id actually prefer Fields to Lawrence though..
 

Ohio

B.I.A.
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
36,021
Reaction score
34,782
Points
148
I love all 3.

Id actually prefer Fields to Lawrence though..
Sounds like many of us would.

I do recall PFF having Fields over Lawrence.

If the Big Ten ever pulls it head out of its ass, and Fields gets to play this season...I think we might see other sites/people putting Fields over Lawrence as well.

It would be a fascinating thing to watch over the course of the season: Fields vs Lawrence for all the awards, Fields vs Lawrence in the playoffs again (potentially), Fields vs Lawrence in the draft. A few years ago it was Fields vs Lawrence for the #1 recruit, too.
 

SixPACK

3rd & 41
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
6,594
Reaction score
5,994
Points
113
We have an extra 3/4th next year, so we have some ammo to move around.

Not saying that will get us in the top 5, but at least there are 3 QB's that if they are okay with all, they can have some wiggle room to not have to move up to #1.

Some of the teams that will likely finish near the top of the draft next year already have QB's set in place/ready to take over:

Cinci - Burrow
Miami - Tua
Wash - Haskins
NYG - Jones
NYJ - Darnold (ehhh?)

We have to worry about/question:

Carolina
Jets (also in above list)
Jax (really trust Minshew?)
Lions (wait another year before drafting Stafford replacement?)

Draft order is going to change so much but just things to ponder over. Not every high team is going to use a spot on a QB. So they will have to be smart in who has the ammo to move ahead of them to grab a QB or will we see a Day 1 slide of one of those 3?

But let's all hope Mayfield pulls it together and this is not even a consideration
 

Los216

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
19,632
Reaction score
16,898
Points
123
At this moment I'm not interested in any of the draft eligible QB's except for Justin Fields. None of the other guys do it for me. I'm not even being a Buckeye homer either.
 

The Human Q-Tip

Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up!
Moderator
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
26,266
Reaction score
38,654
Points
148
Baker's game vs the Ravens was a continuation of what we saw all last season. Couldn't blame it on the line this time either. A new coach/system is going to affect things, but many of the problems I saw with Baker last season were still very apparent yesterday like locking on receivers, fleeing the pocket unecessarily, not identifying open WR, inexplicably overlooking defenders, etc.
Those things all can be a product of the QB not being comfortable in the system, which was true last season as well when Freddie went away from the shit that worked in 2018, and the OL fell apart.

Baker may very well not be the guy. But I personally would want to see how Baker does in Stefanski's system when he's had a reasonable amount of time to get comfortable in it before reaching that conclusion.
 

Remove Video Ad

Total amount
$450.00
Goal
$400.00
Donation ends:
Top