2021 NBA Draft Safari

[Derek]

What's your program? You developing kids?

Trying to. I’m a HS coach. Cut my teeth for about a dozen years as an assistant before getting a crack at my own program this year.

Just trying to pay it forward. I had a lot of great coaches growing up, and I don’t know where I’d be without them.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Trying to. I’m a HS coach. Cut my teeth for about a dozen years as an assistant before getting a crack at my own program this year.

Just trying to pay it forward. I had a lot of great coaches growing up, and I don’t know where I’d be without them.

Congrats my brotha!!! You're on the front lines. Definitely the most rewarding work I've done has been in helping kids develop... I miss it. My younger brother is an assistant in NE Ohio and has been for the last decade. He just started getting offers including at our alma mater in Akron but he passed after researching the lack of resources they had compared to some of those other schools in Summit County.

You dont have to disclose here, but wherever your program is, I'll bet it will depend on your engagement/involvement with the funnel of kids coming up (as early as middle school). My brother took on 7th and 8th graders in his first year in the program, guided them through freshman teams and is the JV coach and lead Varsity assistant now at his school. His first 7th & 8th grade class won back to back league titles and lost the District championship games in their upperclassmen years. Nothing more rewarding than planting seeds early at 12/13 and seeing their hard work pay off.

Good luck to you

 

[I'mWithDan]

The one thing that makes me hesitate is that guys like him (multi skilled big wings with good jumpers) tend to over perform in the NBA. I wasn't super impressed with Tatum as a freshman at Duke, but all of those missed jumpers started turning into 3s and he started nailing more. And driving to the rim seemed to be easier for him in the NBA than duke, but that just might be my perception.

That is more where I am at too. As I have said in the past, the turnovers are just destroying his profile.

It doesn't seem absurd to ask him to decrease his TO's 1-1.5 per 100. Effectively make 1-1.5 better decisions.

If he can just do that and continue to do what he is doing, his profile is that of a guy that is actually better than Tatum. Just purely from a prospect sense. The likelihood he is better is probably small, relative to Tatum's improvement but who knows.

When you actually dive in and read about both.......which of the two is this about?

Weaknesses: He does not have great burst from a stand still position, which causes him to struggle getting to the rim, and he has trouble finishing against top tier length and athleticism … This forces him to heavily rely on tough floaters and two-point jumpers, which is an inefficient way to score … He can further refine his decision making on offense, as he can be too dependent on isolation offense, even if he excels in these situations.

That is about Tatum but you could just save yourself some time and paste it in to Cade's as well.

It is tough to project work ethic, improvement, etc........but I really struggle with wings like Cade. As you said, they seem to see improvement going up a level. I think he is the toughest guy to evaluate, in terms of slot. If you assume Mobley / Green go 1-2, sitting at 3, it would really be tough to pass on him. Kind of one of those picks where you don't feel great if you make it, don't feel great if you don't. Maybe his play down the stretch will make it more clear where he should go......but if he's kind of the same, it is such a tough evaluation for me.

 

[MD13]

That is more where I am at too. As I have said in the past, the turnovers are just destroying his profile.

It doesn't seem absurd to ask him to decrease his TO's 1-1.5 per 100. Effectively make 1-1.5 better decisions.

If he can just do that and continue to do what he is doing, his profile is that of a guy that is actually better than Tatum. Just purely from a prospect sense. The likelihood he is better is probably small, relative to Tatum's improvement but who knows.

When you actually dive in and read about both.......which of the two is this about?

Weaknesses: He does not have great burst from a stand still position, which causes him to struggle getting to the rim, and he has trouble finishing against top tier length and athleticism … This forces him to heavily rely on tough floaters and two-point jumpers, which is an inefficient way to score … He can further refine his decision making on offense, as he can be too dependent on isolation offense, even if he excels in these situations.

That is about Tatum but you could just save yourself some time and paste it in to Cade's as well.

It is tough to project work ethic, improvement, etc........but I really struggle with wings like Cade. As you said, they seem to see improvement going up a level. I think he is the toughest guy to evaluate, in terms of slot. If you assume Mobley / Green go 1-2, sitting at 3, it would really be tough to pass on him. Kind of one of those picks where you don't feel great if you make it, don't feel great if you don't. Maybe his play down the stretch will make it more clear where he should go......but if he's kind of the same, it is such a tough evaluation for me.

IWD, I was nodding with your entire post there. I think the main difference and difficulty in evaluating these guys now vs before is just the extra spacing- when we were dealing with clogged lanes and closer help, the emphasis was on ball handlers who had the burst to beat their man quickly off the dribble and get straight at the help without their man coming into the picture. Now with the help farther away, you have much more time and space to isolate and the emphasis is more on making the right read and getting the ball into space.

@RchfldCavRaised he may never be elite at getting to the rim. But if he can hit enough jumpers and drive off of the threat of the jumper, then it might not matter and he may still end up finishing at an elite level. The extreme example is Steph- pretty small and an average at best athlete, but he's always been an elite finisher because all he has to do is pump fake and go and the defender is behind him already. I don't think he'd be a high level finisher with an average jumper, but the jumper is elite so his finishing is also elite.

 

[Nathan S]

I know this is kinda beating a dead horse, but I can seriously only find 2 dunks for Cade this season (uncontested on fast breaks vs Oakland and Marquette). Normally I'm the guy clambering to give a guy a shot despite subpar athleticism, but this is crazy, maybe unprecedented for a prospect his size. I'm not sure it's fair to compare his athleticism to guys like Tatum, Doncic, and George...there's a big gap there.

 

[I'mWithDan]

I know this is kinda beating a dead horse, but I can seriously only find 2 dunks for Cade this season (uncontested on fast breaks vs Oakland and Marquette). Normally I'm the guy clambering to give a guy a shot despite subpar athleticism, but this is crazy, maybe unprecedented for a prospect his size. I'm not sure it's fair to compare his athleticism to guys like Tatum, Doncic, and George...there's a big gap there.

How is this an assessment of overall athleticism? I'm just curious on the take here......and open to hearing it.

Number of dunks executed, in a 19 game sample size, is now a determining factor for a prospect?

 

[I'mWithDan]

Here is what I see a lot on film with Cade......where I think the dunk expectation / thought is interesting but maybe not indicative of much.

This was a converted, downhill drive at the rim. How is he dunking here?

Or here.....this ends up being an And1 but is he expected to dunk this against pressure from 3 players and a 4th in the lane?

Or downhill off a screen.....this ends up being an easy finish on a reverse.

Downhill, off a screen, splitting 3 defenders and then finishing over a contest

Again, common theme......tons of congestion. He still converts this play, at the rim, over a contest.

These plays are pretty indicative of what you see in his film. Just bodies all around him.

In the NBA, downhill off a ball screen, you are maybe seeing 1 help side guy or a trailing big. Many times you are just angling to beat the help side player to the rim, with space to run / jump.

If you see more than 1 help side guy, it is just a player racking up easy assists to wide open shooters. ISO play and P&R play is just so much easier in the NBA. Like this is indicative of an NBA play:

That is the one thing that has really stood out diving in to Cade's film more. It is a lot of half court basketball where it is just 5 defensive guys in a really crowded space. It is also additional indictment that they need to use him in ways where this is hard (for 5 defensive guys to just stand and watch).......around screens, initiating more offense where he is receiving an initial pass to to the wing, pin downs, etc.......the fact that he has so many of the screen-capped plays above, where he is finding ways to score against ridiculous congestion should be encouraging. As that should get easier at the NBA level IMO......especially all the wash he deals with at 17-21 feet, as he is trying to navigate on ball screens.

 

[Nathan S]

How is this an assessment of overall athleticism? I'm just curious on the take here......and open to hearing it.

Number of dunks executed, in a 19 game sample size, is now a determining factor for a prospect?

There aren't many good quantitative ways to measure athleticism...even combine data isn't great except for extreme outliers. Dunks per field goal attempt seems like a reasonable data point to me. I don't expect him to dunk the ball every possession, but at his size, it's strange to go 3 months and 200+ field goal attempts without a dunk.

 

[Adam]

Not that I think he is but is the thing that stops us thinking case is like Luka his AST:to ratio?

 

[Derek]

Not that I think he is but is the thing that stops us thinking case is like Luka his AST:to ratio?

No, Cade has performed worse than Luka almost across the board. Cade’s only advantage is his 3 point shot, and Luka kills him everywhere else.

 

[Adam]

No, Cade has performed worse than Luka almost across the board. Cade’s only advantage is his 3 point shot, and Luka kills him everywhere else.

Is that when adjusted for pace etc?

 

[Derek]

Is that when adjusted for pace etc?

Even just raw numbers. Plus, Luka was playing far superior competition.

 

[Nathan S]

Don't make me pull out the Doncic dunk videos

 

[I'mWithDan]

Don't make me pull out the Doncic dunk videos

Vertically, I don't think he's a better athlete than Cade. Luka's first step is quicker though.

I also think competition matters but so does spacing......and that video is a great example of it.

It is why I think Cade will be a better creator in the NBA.

Drop Luka in the college game, where 5 guys constantly lay off terrible shooters and I suspect you never see a highlight like that.

 

[Ohioplayer00]

What did I say that was wrong?

I said it was rare, and you provided a few of those rare exceptions. Still, none of those guys were considered playmakers coming out of college like Cunningham is supposed to be.

Also, my point was more in regards to NBA production than college.

Plus we do have to remember he IS JUST A FRESHMAN. And a lot of his turnovers last game game against Tech’s zone defense! I believe he handled/protected the ball pretty good against man to man defense! And trust me the NBA’s version of zone is nowhere near as tough as a college team’s zone defense.
I would still take Cade at one. Just too many skills to ignore!