2021 Season | Series #44 | Brewers @ Indians | Sep. 10-12

[Criznit]

NO MORE HAROLD

 

[xmasbuck]

so our goal is 8?

 

[DCTribefan]

so our goal is 8?

Never say never.

 

[33Y0]

Welp, I saw that no-no in person....

 

[sportscoach]

Welp, I saw that no-no in person....

Well you on the banned list from going to Indians games now.... Lol

 

[Real Deal]

Browns are our only hope, who'd ever thought.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The Tribe demoted Daniel Johnson, hitting .222, and brought up lefty reliever Francisco Perez, who only got one appearance the first time they brought him up.

Johnson has been a huge disappointment this season, starting with his .221 batting average at Columbus with a 36% strikeout rate. In OPS he ranks 11th out of 12 Columbus players with over 150 at-bats, behind non-prospects like Trenton Brooks, Ryan Lavarnway, Conner Marabell, and Alex Call. I would go so far at this point to say the 26-year-old Johnson is no longer a prospect. Just at Columbus I would put Kwan and Gonzalez ahead of him as outfield prospects, and probably Will Benson, who just got called up.

Francisco Perez has limited opponents to a .196 BA in 25.2 innings at Columbus after absolutely dominating at Akron. He's been a little wild with 19 walks in those 25.2 innings leading to a WHIP of 1.44, but with 35 K's he has shown swing-and-miss stuff. I will be interested to see him getting 10 or so appearances over the rest of the season.

The Indians now have three left-handed relievers on the staff which must be a franchise record; Young, Hentges, and Perez. They should DFA Young and give Perez a good introduction to major league pitching in hopes he can nail down a relief job next year. He's 24-years-old and this is his sixth year in the organization.

 

[sportscoach]

The Tribe demoted Daniel Johnson, hitting .222, and brought up lefty reliever Francisco Perez, who only got one appearance the first time they brought him up.

Johnson has been a huge disappointment this season, starting with his .221 batting average at Columbus with a 36% strikeout rate. In OPS he ranks 11th out of 12 Columbus players with over 150 at-bats, behind non-prospects like Trenton Brooks, Ryan Lavarnway, Conner Marabell, and Alex Call. I would go so far at this point to say the 26-year-old Johnson is no longer a prospect. Just at Columbus I would put Kwan and Gonzalez ahead of him as outfield prospects, and probably Will Benson, who just got called up.

Francisco Perez has limited opponents to a .196 BA in 25.2 innings at Columbus after absolutely dominating at Akron. He's been a little wild with 19 walks in those 25.2 innings leading to a WHIP of 1.44, but with 35 K's he has shown swing-and-miss stuff. I will be interested to see him getting 10 or so appearances over the rest of the season.

The Indians now have three left-handed relievers on the staff which must be a franchise record; Young, Hentges, and Perez. They should DFA Young and give Perez a good introduction to major league pitching in hopes he can nail down a relief job next year. He's 24-years-old and this is his sixth year in the organization.

Johnson never got his fair chance at the bigs and he has been playing better of late... He still has one option reminding but I think we are best off moving him for 22... Also Young we will try to get through waivers this November and have him as a depth piece in 22...

I almost wanna see Kwan and some others now, mostly because they are hitting so well and we haven't been. Bring a spark up and hope it works...

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Johnson never got his fair chance at the bigs and he has been playing better of late... He still has one option reminding but I think we are best off moving him for 22... Also Young we will try to get through waivers this November and have him as a depth piece in 22...

I almost wanna see Kwan and some others now, mostly because they are hitting so well and we haven't been. Bring a spark up and hope it works...

Do you think Johnson earned a fair shot in his 204 AB's in Columbus? As for "playing better of late", he has one hit (a single) in his last 18 at-bats. With the Indians he's drawn four walks in 77 at-bats.

Other than one really long home run and a four-game hot streak in August where he went 7-for-15 (what you're referring to) he's shown nothing. Since that very short hot streak ended he's 1-for-18, reverting back to his norm. He passes the eyeball test in batting practice but once the game starts he disappears. He booted a couple of hits into the right field corner this week which may have been the last straw.

 

[sportscoach]

Do you think Johnson earned a fair shot in his 204 AB's in Columbus? As for "playing better of late", he has one hit (a single) in his last 18 at-bats. With the Indians he's drawn four walks in 77 at-bats.

Other than one really long home run and a four-game hot streak in August where he went 7-for-15 (what you're referring to) he's shown nothing. Since that very short hot streak ended he's 1-for-18, reverting back to his norm. He passes the eyeball test in batting practice but once the game starts he disappears. He booted a couple of hits into the right field corner this week which may have been the last straw.

I have a hunch (just a hunch since I am not physically around him) that most of the issues Johnson has had this season was mental and caused by the fact that he was promised a chance to make the club and he outplayed everyone (even Bimbo said he was outplaying everyone in spring) yet he got demoted to the minors pretty quick. I almost feel like that just stripped him of something mentally, whether it was confidence or care to work hard, I don't know, but he just wasn't right after that. I think he will be fine in the bigs, but he needs to be on a new team and a fresh start to reach it... I feel like he is done in Cleveland. I could be completely wrong, but this is how I feel about the whole thing...

 

[CATS44]

A few thoughts...

1) Burnes, not Scherzer, is the best pitcher in baseball this year. We saw it last night.

2) The competition for MLB positions doesn't entail merely Spring training. It begins the first time a kid steps on a practice field as a pro, and doesn't end until he is retired.

Johnson always showed athletic ability...tools...but seldom showed baseball ability...skills. His profile and scouting reports always read 'toolsy, but raw.' It never changed.

3) Obviously, the offense needs improvement. Nobody says it doesn't. But the biggest problem on this team has been pitching, pitching, pitching.

The answer to the pitching problem can be summed up in one word. HEALTH

Even with the lack of offense, this team would be contending right now with a rotation that had remained intact.

4) The team is still trying to win, but the FO has moved on to next year. If the rotation had remained healthy, we wouldn't be seeing a lot of the kids we are seeing now. The FO would have made a move for offense at the deadline. It was widely reported that the FO had made inquiries on multiple offensive pieces in July.

This is not the offense we will see next year.

Only three players on the roster right now have more PAs than Harold. That is not gonna happen next year. Harold won't even be on the roster.

Since the deadline, four players have played second base. That is not gonna happen next year.

Since Eddie got hurt, five players have played in the outfield corners. Three of them will probably not be on the opening day roster. One will be our DH.

Zimmer, Harold, Chang, Miller, Clement, Johnson, and Mercado have combined for over 1200 PAs...just under one fourth of the teams PAs. A lot of those PAs will be replaced by real MLB hitters.

We are basically watching spring training games right now. Wringing our hands about the offense right now as if it is the offense we will see in 2022 is fruitless, because it isn't.

Every game for every MLB and MiLB player is a tryout. We are watching tryouts for the 24th and 25th spots on the opening day roster, with the exception of Gimenez. While they may not know it, there are a lot of players in other orgs that are competing for the starting roles for the Guardians.

 

[DCTribefan]

A few thoughts...

1) Burnes, not Scherzer, is the best pitcher in baseball this year. We saw it last night.

2) The competition for MLB positions doesn't entail merely Spring training. It begins the first time a kid steps on a practice field as a pro, and doesn't end until he is retired.

Johnson always showed athletic ability...tools...but seldom showed baseball ability...skills. His profile and scouting reports always read 'toolsy, but raw.' It never changed.

3) Obviously, the offense needs improvement. Nobody says it doesn't. But the biggest problem on this team has been pitching, pitching, pitching.

The answer to the pitching problem can be summed up in one word. HEALTH

Even with the lack of offense, this team would be contending right now with a rotation that had remained intact.

4) The team is still trying to win, but the FO has moved on to next year. If the rotation had remained healthy, we wouldn't be seeing a lot of the kids we are seeing now. The FO would have made a move for offense at the deadline. It was widely reported that the FO had made inquiries on multiple offensive pieces in July.

This is not the offense we will see next year.

Only three players on the roster right now have more PAs than Harold. That is not gonna happen next year. Harold won't even be on the roster.

Since the deadline, four players have played second base. That is not gonna happen next year.

Since Eddie got hurt, five players have played in the outfield corners. Three of them will probably not be on the opening day roster. One will be our DH.

Zimmer, Harold, Chang, Miller, Clement, Johnson, and Mercado have combined for over 1200 PAs...just under one fourth of the teams PAs. A lot of those PAs will be replaced by real MLB hitters.

We are basically watching spring training games right now. Wringing our hands about the offense right now as if it is the offense we will see in 2022 is fruitless, because it isn't.

Every game for every MLB and MiLB player is a tryout. We are watching tryouts for the 24th and 25th spots on the opening day roster, with the exception of Gimenez. While they may not know it, there are a lot of players in other orgs that are competing for the starting roles for the Guardians.

Setting aside fWAR and your other favorite statistics from this season, Scherzer would be the easy choice of all managers outside of Milwaukee as the guy you would want to give the ball to in a big game, even HOF managers. Perhaps we’ll see a Scherzer-Burnes matchup in next month’s playoffs.

improved health (Sandlin aside) won’t fix the bullpen whose problems are endemic and require a makeover.

About the only statement I agree with in your comments is your very last sentence. So there’s that.

 

[CDAV45]

A fully healthy pitching staff would have this team better in the standings, but it wouldn't be a real contender with this lineup. Most likely more of the same, which might be a WC game loss and early exit. Then again, my question wondering if the deadline would have been approached differently had they been in possession of a WC spot comes into play. Hard to say really.

Will the lineup be much different next season? If so, how and with who? It's a difficult, even impossible puzzle to put together right now because the pieces don't fit or they don't have all the pieces to begin with.

I think it's pretty much a consensus that the SP staff is damn good when healthy. Most of us have confidence that the BP will be just fine as well, but none of us feel as if this lineup will get the job done. Most of us feel that it will be improved, but with no clear cut vision as to how. If this truly is a "tryout/ST" then they need to be getting a look at guys like Jones, Kwan, and even Gonzalez IMO. It seems pretty obvious to me who the marginal players on the roster are so why drag your feet in a lost season?

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

This is not the offense we will see next year.

Sure hope not.

Only three players on the roster right now have more PAs than Harold. That is not gonna happen next year. Harold won't even be on the roster.

Wouldn't be too sure. Antonetti called him a "godsend". And he's cheap. I would say it's 50/50.

Zimmer, Harold, Chang, Miller, Clement, Johnson, and Mercado have combined for over 1200 PAs...just under one fourth of the teams PAs. A lot of those PAs will be replaced by real MLB hitters.

Where are these "real major league hitters" going to come from? Attendance has been awful, there's still no minority owner to infuse cash, and they want to extend Jose and Bieber, which would suck up all available money IMO.

Hopefully they'll have the resources to get a better version of Eddie Rosario and a younger Cesar Hernandez, but what if they don't?

I'm expecting them to package some prospects to try and get some real hitters to play 2B and a corner OF position. That goes against the grain of what they always do, which is to stockpile more prospects, but the clock is ticking on Bieber and Jose.

They could stand pat and gamble that they will find internal solutions (Tyler Freeman, Gilbert Arias, Owen Miller, Oscar Gonzalez, Steven Kwan). But that's a gamble.

Great point about one-quarter of the plate appearances being used by guys who are not legitimate big league hitters. Although I would say that Harold is a big league hitter, although with some serious limitations.

 

[Gson]

Sure hope not.

Wouldn't be too sure. Antonetti called him a "godsend". And he's cheap. I would say it's 50/50.

Where are these "real major league hitters" going to come from? Attendance has been awful, there's still no minority owner to infuse cash, and they want to extend Jose and Bieber, which would suck up all available money IMO.

Hopefully they'll have the resources to get a better version of Eddie Rosario and a younger Cesar Hernandez, but what if they don't?

I'm expecting them to package some prospects to try and get some real hitters to play 2B and a corner OF position. That goes against the grain of what they always do, which is to stockpile more prospects, but the clock is ticking on Bieber and Jose.

They could stand pat and gamble that they will find internal solutions (Tyler Freeman, Gilbert Arias, Owen Miller, Oscar Gonzalez, Steven Kwan). But that's a gamble.

Great point about one-quarter of the plate appearances being used by guys who are not legitimate big league hitters. Although I would say that Harold is a big league hitter, although with some serious limitations.

Hmm... interesting posting...

Agree on Weird Harold.. he swings the bat.. makes contact.. gets on base.. not at an elite level.. but given time and opportunity..he could evolve into an excellent hit-only player that gets hidden on the field and resides in the dugout as much time as possible save for a few moments each game when he swings the lumber... & yes.. this means the drum that has been beaten for some time about Franmill playing a corner OF, a position he's shown tremendous instincts to play.. still remains..

To extend or not to extend.. Different situations for both Bieber and JRam.. but some similarities.. Both guys will be at or above 30 years of age when their control by the CLEFO will be ending (assumes both JRam options are picked up).. Bieber, he's been relatively healthy.. up until this year.. If Rosenhaus Sports Mgmt is doing their job.. they'll push for an extension as soon as possible (after the CBA is determined).. If they cannot get both length and dollar value.. It will never happen for Bieber and Cleveland as a long term thing.. Same with JRam.. Republik Sports will have both time and money targets.. FWiW & IMHO.. pass on both... They might be back in 2022.. even 2023.. but... They may both be wearing the uniforms of a different club, as much as I'd dislike it.. It's a business..

If passing on extending both JRam and Bieber come to pass.. then "internal options" may take on an entirely different meaning.. As of now.. Bieber coming back to have a "few" outings before the 2021 season ends would be enormous in either direction: Giving him a sense of confidence that he'll be ready to burst upon the scene as the name/face of the newly named Guardians with a yet to dry inked contract for an enormous amount of money.. or for the return he could bring in trade.. JRam has nothing to prove.. If his representatives determine he's worth 341 MM + 1 MM (..egotistically speaking.. one more than Lindor).. then, it will be: "...don't let the door hitya where the good lord splitya..." The sooner the better...

Thoughts?...