2021 Trade Ideas and Deadline talk!

[CDAV45]

Chang actually has been decent for us offensively, but Bauer hasn't been good...

I would honestly say, on paper if you can upgrade Gamel, Bauers and Hedges offensively then we would be fine...

Gamel, should be mostly a backup/5th OF, Hedges is the backup catcher, plus with Mercado, HRam and Johnson in the minors, I am not super worried about the OF depth. I would like a veteran in the mix, but we dont have to there.

1B is Bauers or Bradley, both unproven... To likely get Olson, both guys would be gone (Bauers cut and Bradley part of the deal..) Now if we got Canha or Mancini OF/1B type then just Bauers would be gone and Bradley kept for next season.

@CATS44 no we don't know who would be at 1B, but at the moment if Olson is available and we can afford to trade for him, wouldn't you want him over Bauers/Bradley at the moment? I just don't like Bauers, and if we get Olson, that really sets 1B without a doubt. Hitting is something we need and putting Olson behind Reyes would look lovely on paper lol

Chang is out of position at 1B and he's been decent offensively compared to Bauers. Let's be real here, the kid is either a 3B, SS, or 2B. Hats off to him though because he is doing whatever he can to help this team and his attitude appears to be excellent. The same can be said for Amed. I have a lot of respect and appreciation for both of those guys right now.

 

[sportscoach]

Chang is out of position at 1B and he's been decent offensively compared to Bauers. Let's be real here, the kid is either a 3B, SS, or 2B. Hats off to him though because he is doing whatever he can to help this team and his attitude appears to be excellent. The same can be said for Amed. I have a lot of respect and appreciation for both of those guys right now.

I think we both agree on Bauers though, at the moment we all believe he is a weak link. So I wouldn't be surprised to see him off the team come June.

 

[CDAV45]

OK

Since so many seem more interested in trades than baseball....

The Indians would want an impact player who has some control at an affordable cost.

Haniger has another year of control and will cost close to what we are paying Hernandez.

Gallo also has another year of control and will cost slightly more than we are paying Eddie.

Both play for teams that are probably not going anywhere this year, and Texas looks to be more than a year away. Both teams have excess young players at the positions they play.

Both teams have organizational needs that we can easily fill.

The Cubs are in a spot, with three of their core players headed for free agency. If they fall out of contention, they almost have to sell off their biggest assets and go into full rebuild. Should that happen, their most valuable position asset is Ian Happ. He has two additional years of control, the first of which would be well within our budget. The Cubs biggest failure under Epstein was that they simply could not acquire and develope young pitching. We have lots of that.

Nobody is more interested in trades than baseball. It's a trade thread so talking down to people for discussing trades seems a bit silly. Besides, it's about the excitement for this team. Clearly Bauers is a liability, and most of these ideas are about upgrading his position. It's also about the roster crunch coming up that you are well aware of because you've posted about it numerous times. So, in one hand we have too many good, young prospects that have to be rostered and in the other hand we have a shitty 1B. Makes sense to discuss possibly using some of the excess prospect assets to address the need.

IMO Haniger would be a welcome addition if you're sending Naylor down because I have no desire to see him at 1B. Naylor is this team's LF after this season, and maybe sooner should things take a downturn and Eddie is dealt. I don't think Gallo owns a 1B mitt either so that puts him in the same boat as Haniger for me. If I'm mistaken and either can play 1B then I'm all in.

I'm also all in for getting Happ, but I think the Cubs are more likely to build around him than to deal him. They can recover quickly due to their ability to spend.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I'm just amazed we've made it to page 2 without @sportscoach bringing up what he did in OOTP as if that has any bearing on reality.

 

[CDAV45]

I think we both agree on Bauers though, at the moment we all believe he is a weak link. So I wouldn't be surprised to see him off the team come June.

I pray to God we don't have to wait that long to move on from him. He either needs a change of scenery or just plain sucks ass. Either way, him leaving yesterday is a day too late for me. I don't want Naylor at a 1B, but he's a much better option than Bauers and that would open up RF for Luplow or H. Ramirez.

 

[MadThinker88]

I think we both agree on Bauers though, at the moment we all believe he is a weak link. So I wouldn't be surprised to see him off the team come June.

I think Bauers gets to maybe the 3rd week in May (roughly 7 weeks). If not producing, he gets cut & the roster spot gets used for some other need on the MLB club (say activating a Cam Hill or adding a different pitcher (Sandlin/ Gose/ Broom)

Going that long gives Bobby Bradley a chance to get going again with the AAA season starting 5/4/21. It also gives Bobby about 7 weeks in MLB to the All-Star break to show he is ready/ capable.

Those weeks are then key for multiple players in AAA. Who gets those 1B reps in AAA?? It could be a number of different players.
Does an OF (say Mercado/Zimmer/ DJohnson/ Harold Ramirez) get going on all cylinders while playing in the OF?
If not one of them, does Nolan Jones or Owen Miller on all cylinders while possibly getting time at 1B in AAA??

If the Tribe is still in the race at the All Star break, but 1B is a problem offensively, they have a number of ways to address it internally (shifting Josh Naylor to 1B while calling up a productive AAA outfielder or calling up a 1B capable player from AAA).

I'm not against making a trade for someone (Mancini/ Olsen/ Rizzo) but why spend assets to bring in someone when the answer is already in house & just needs the opportunity to prove himself??

It is purely my guess but I suspect all of Bauers/ Bradlet/ Mercado/ Zimmer are gone from the 40 man roster by the beginning of November (to help make room for other talent already in the system)...

 

[CDAV45]

I think Bauers gets to maybe the 3rd week in May (roughly 7 weeks). If not producing, he gets cut & the roster spot gets used for some other need on the MLB club (say activating a Cam Hill or adding a different pitcher (Sandlin/ Gose/ Broom)

Going that long gives Bobby Bradley a chance to get going again with the AAA season starting 5/4/21. It also gives Bobby about 7 weeks in MLB to the All-Star break to show he is ready/ capable.

Those weeks are then key for multiple players in AAA. Who gets those 1B reps in AAA?? It could be a number of different players.
Does an OF (say Mercado/Zimmer/ DJohnson/ Harold Ramirez) get going on all cylinders while playing in the OF?
If not one of them, does Nolan Jones or Owen Miller on all cylinders while possibly getting time at 1B in AAA??

If the Tribe is still in the race at the All Star break, but 1B is a problem offensively, they have a number of ways to address it internally (shifting Josh Naylor to 1B while calling up a productive AAA outfielder or calling up a 1B capable player from AAA).

I'm not against making a trade for someone (Mancini/ Olsen/ Rizzo) but why spend assets to bring in someone when the answer is already in house & just needs the opportunity to prove himself??

It is purely my guess but I suspect all of Bauers/ Bradlet/ Mercado/ Zimmer are gone from the 40 man roster by the beginning of November (to help make room for other talent already in the system)...

If the SP continues to pitch deep into games as it has, then another BP arm will certainly not be needed. Tito is struggling to get guys innings now. We'll see how that goes when we face better hitting teams like the Yankees, Reds, Twins, and White Sox.

I guess we can throw enough shit against the wall to see what sticks. That's one way to do it, but I'd rather just address the issue with a more definitive answer if possible. There has to be an opportunity to do so and that's not a given. The reality is that there just may not be a clear upgrade available and the only options are internal. Either way, I'm ready to explore those options yesterday because watching Bauers flail away is already old.

Speaking of throwing shit against the wall. Andujar could probably be had for a song and dance right now. He's on the IL with "carpal tunnel" but he's hitting and they have nowhere to put him. I'd rather see him try 1B then watch Bauers another day.

 

[sportscoach]

I'm just amazed we've made it to page 2 without @sportscoach bringing up what he did in OOTP as if that has any bearing on reality.

You can learn a lot about team management from OOTP haha

 

[MadThinker88]

If the SP continues to pitch deep into games as it has, then another BP arm will certainly not be needed. Tito is struggling to get guys innings now. We'll see how that goes when we face better hitting teams like the Yankees, Reds, Twins, and White Sox.

......

The line about Cam Hill was not a throw away... He is currently on the 60 day DL... If he is ready to be pitching again, he only gets a 30 day rehab assignment.
Even activating him & sending him to pitch in AAA means he gets added back to the 40 man roster & a 40 man spot would be needed.

I sense we are in agreement we would rather have Cam Hill on the 40 man roster (& playing somewhere in the CLE system) than Jake B..

 

[CDAV45]

The line about Cam Hill was not a throw away... He is currently on the 60 day DL... If he is ready to be pitching again, he only gets a 30 day rehab assignment.
Even activating him & sending him to pitch in AAA means he gets added back to the 40 man roster & a 40 man spot would be needed.

I sense we are in agreement we would rather have Cam Hill on the 40 man roster (& playing somewhere in the CLE system) than Jake B..

Yeah, we would rather have (insert name here) on the 40 man roster and playing somewhere than Jake B.

 

[hockeyjohn]

How about if you want to wait until June to discuss this then do so yourself. Coach started a thread and it's interesting to some of us. You don't have to involve yourself if it agitates you.

Your idea of what people "want" is way over marginalized and terribly inaccurate. What most, if not all have said about Ramirez is that they don't want to see the same mistake made with him that was made with Kluber and Lindor. Especially if this lineup isn't improved. Everyone here wants to win. Some are happy with division titles and saying "we made the playoffs" and others measure the success by how deep they make it in October. If this organization cannot afford to assemble a good lineup around Ramirez then dealing him makes sense to some of us, while watching him walk in FA from a team that never really had a chance to win it all would appear on the surface to be a waste. At the same time, if they can add a bat like Olson's to the lineup, then the talk of trading Ramirez would probably slow down a bit because it would certainly appear that this team is equipped for a deep playoff run.

They've cleared a huge amount of payroll incase you didn't notice. Rosario likely hits FA after the season and I expect that Hernandez is moved with all the MIF studs. Could they afford Olson's arbitration? I can't honestly say yes or no, but the idea of him being added to the roster makes this team better for sure.

Instead of Olson, how about helping Pittsburgh in their rebuild and send them McKenzie, Hankins, and Rocchio for Keller and Reynolds? Might have to throw another low level arm in there too, but I would do it.

Who died and made you the leader of this website? Why do people on websites feel the need to talk down and rudely with others? I am sorry that my opinion is different your almighty opinion. I would say more, but I was taught better.

 

[CDAV45]

Who died and made you the leader of this website? Why do people on websites feel the need to talk down and rudely with others? I am sorry that my opinion is different your almighty opinion. I would say more, but I was taught better.

What? Let's clear this up a bit. This is a direct quote from your post.

"Personally, it is too early to discuss deadline trades 8 games into the season. Lets see where we are in June and what we need then the topic makes much more sense."

All I'm saying is if the topic doesn't make sense to you then pass on by. Nobody is forcing you to comment or participate in this thread. Then, after stating that you don't have to be involved, you come at me with some BS about me being a website leader and ask "why people on websites feel the need to talk down and rudely with others". That's exactly what you did!

I don't need your contrarian apology either. I won't say anymore either because I don't want Coach's thread consumed by bickering.

 

[WhoAzcue]

What most, if not all have said about Ramirez is that they don't want to see the same mistake made with him that was made with Kluber and Lindor.

For the love of god, please stop assuming your criticism on the handling of Kluber or Lindor is anywhere near "common wisdom." Or that there were any lessons at all to be learned from those two players' situations which apply to Jose Ramirez.

Hindsight is not a useful form of analysis, since we rarely apply it any manner except to second-guess, and it's even worse when used to justify other questionable moves made out of fear.

Again, for the thousandth time: both Kluber and Lindor were with good reason regarded as essential to the fortunes of the team going forward, and any attempt to acquire their services required a proper threshold to act, most likely a return far in excess of what others were ever willing to meet.

What happened subsequently to either player, either due to injury or poor performance, could not be envisioned or assumed, nor could the fortunes of the Cleveland Indians. There were no "mistakes" made, and in fact, the brilliance of acquiring Emmanuel Clase and Andres Gimenez, among others, as well as saving tens of millions of dollars that could be allocated elsewhere, if it has any bearing at all on a potential Ramirez deal is this: have patience; ride your players as long as you can, while they remain valuable to the fortunes of the ball club, because that's all that matters, and that's why you acquired them, developed them, and paid them. Looking to deal players out of fear for diminished performance when there is no clear evidence of that, or before they have become too expensive vis-a-vis performance, is not only an unfounded fear, but like all fears, leads to folly.

Fortunately, this organization has shown no penchant for folly that is commonly expressed in the twittersphere or in forums like this one. A bad month or two is not changing the trajectory of this team, or altering the course of decision-making by this team with respect to its core players. This is a good team, a relevant team, and will remain so.

So please, can we just stop with the histrionics and enjoy this team, and Jose Ramirez's part in it? I don't mind discussions of a player's value--that's always an interesting abstract--but when I'm told what we must do because "we know we don't want to make the same mistakes again" I'm sorry, I rebel against such contentions.

 

[AllforOne]

For the love of god, please stop assuming your criticism on the handling of Kluber or Lindor is anywhere near "common wisdom." Or that there were any lessons at all to be learned from those two players' situations which apply to Jose Ramirez.

Hindsight is not a useful form of analysis, since we rarely apply it any manner except to second-guess, and it's even worse when used to justify other questionable moves made out of fear.

Again, for the thousandth time: both Kluber and Lindor were with good reason regarded as essential to the fortunes of the team going forward, and any attempt to acquire their services required a proper threshold to act, most likely a return far in excess of what others were ever willing to meet.

What happened subsequently to either player, either due to injury or poor performance, could not be envisioned or assumed, nor could the fortunes of the Cleveland Indians. There were no "mistakes" made, and in fact, the brilliance of acquiring Emmanuel Clase and Andres Gimenez, among others, as well as saving tens of millions of dollars that could be allocated elsewhere, if it has any bearing at all on a potential Ramirez deal is this: have patience; ride your players as long as you can, while they remain valuable to the fortunes of the ball club, because that's all that matters, and that's why you acquired them, developed them, and paid them. Looking to deal players out of fear for diminished performance when there is no clear evidence of that, or before they have become too expensive vis-a-vis performance, is not only an unfounded fear, but like all fears, leads to folly.

Fortunately, this organization has shown no penchant for folly that is commonly expressed in the twittersphere or in forums like this one. A bad month or two is not changing the trajectory of this team, or altering the course of decision-making by this team with respect to its core players. This is a good team, a relevant team, and will remain so.

So please, can we just stop with the histrionics and enjoy this team, and Jose Ramirez's part in it? I don't mind discussions of a player's value--that's always an interesting abstract--but when I'm told what we must do because "we know we don't want to make the same mistakes again" I'm sorry, I rebel against such contentions.

So well said. The "common wisdom" that Kluber or Lindor should have been traded earlier is common only on obscure fan sites like this one.

The only people who ever say "mistakes were made!" in these situations are those one-notes who inexplicably want to trade every good player before their value declines ... and who are always convinced that much better packages were available than whatever the team eventually does get in a trade, if there is one.

And as you say, getting Clase for Kluber, or getting Gimenez/Rosario (plus two good long-term prospects) for Lindor, isn't looking too bad right now. That's three guys who are contributing to wins barely one week into the season.

 

[sportscoach]

What? Let's clear this up a bit. This is a direct quote from your post.

"Personally, it is too early to discuss deadline trades 8 games into the season. Lets see where we are in June and what we need then the topic makes much more sense."

All I'm saying is if the topic doesn't make sense to you then pass on by. Nobody is forcing you to comment or participate in this thread. Then, after stating that you don't have to be involved, you come at me with some BS about me being a website leader and ask "why people on websites feel the need to talk down and rudely with others". That's exactly what you did!

I don't need your contrarian apology either. I won't say anymore either because I don't want Coach's thread consumed by bickering.

Honestly your reply to him actually wasn't needed at the end of the day to begin with. From reading it, you actually came off as degrading and that was the issue with the post that @hockeyjohn was having a problem with. I am sure it's not the way you meant it, but its just how it came across to some people

You could have replied why we could have gotten Olson or just left the start at, some us actually like discussing stuff like this even though it is early in the season...

When it comes to pittsburgh... I actually do not think they will move that way at all. Keller is at the same contract time as Plesac (just about) so why would they move him?

Pittsburgh is open to moving Moran, Frazier, Polanco, Tyler Anderson, Chad Kuhl, Felipe Vazquez etc.. you may as well be asking us to be open to trading Bieber right now. Keller isn't going anywhere...