2022-2023 NBA Regular Season Thread

[Jscc]

I just love Giannis. Such a refreshing player to watch. Unlimited engine, does not like flopping, and isn't the type to hide on the opponent's worst defender.

He is putting up prime Shaq numbers without a consistent jump shot. He has to be a top 5 all-time PF right? If he had KDs jumper, he would probably be putting up 40+ ppg.

 

[macbdog]

I just love Giannis. Such a refreshing player to watch. Unlimited engine, does not like flopping, and isn't the type to hide on the opponent's worst defender.

He is putting up prime Shaq numbers without a consistent jump shot. He has to be a top 5 all-time PF right? If he had KDs jumper, he would probably be putting up 40+ ppg.

If he had KDs jumper, he would be

Spoiler

LeBron James

 

[adam81king]

A simple 'no' would have sufficed

I don't think the nuggets squad is that bad and I didn't know the nuggets were slumping. I just feel like it remindsme of when nash got it over players that are arguably more important to winning, like Giannis or Embiid. Maybe i'm always against the offensive bias on these awards and an old grouch.

I hope your day improves

There was no intended vitriol/anger, so my apologies if it came across that way. Im sarcastic and snarky, but was not intending to verbally "spar" in any way. The points I was making were legit, but I'll attempt to either be more careful at who I point my snark at, or be more clear that its more lighthearted than angry.

 

[adam81king]

I just love Giannis. Such a refreshing player to watch. Unlimited engine, does not like flopping, and isn't the type to hide on the opponent's worst defender.

He is putting up prime Shaq numbers without a consistent jump shot. He has to be a top 5 all-time PF right? If he had KDs jumper, he would probably be putting up 40+ ppg.

Giannis is *currently* a top 5 PF of all time, behind only Duncan (I put him on par with Dirk). If Giannis had WEB's (what I call Durant) jumper, he'd be in the GOAT conversation. I think his hands are too big and arms too long to ever have that elite of a jumper, though.

 

[Cement]

My MVP ballot would be:

1a) Embiid
1b) Giannis

(Quite a bit of distance here)

3) Jokic

Sorry, Jokic lovers, but although he's a little better than the top 2 on offense, Jokic is among the worst defenders in the league and this will be an issue in the playoffs. He makes Kevin Love look like Olajuwon.

If there was an offensive player of the year award, sure give that to Jokic. But as long as defense should be a consideration for MVP (and it should be), give it to Embiid or Giannis.

 

[foucault87]

My MVP ballot would be:

1a) Embiid
1b) Giannis

(Quite a bit of distance here)

3) Jokic

Sorry, Jokic lovers, but although he's a little better than the top 2 on offense, Jokic is among the worst defenders in the league and this will be an issue in the playoffs. He makes Kevin Love look like Olajuwon.

If there was an offensive player of the year award, sure give that to Jokic. But as long as defense should be a consideration for MVP (and it should be), give it to Embiid or Giannis.

Joker is not a little better than Embiid or Giannis on offense tho. He is in the middle of what might be the best offensive season ever. He is the greatest all around offensive player ever. Embiid and Giannis are both excellent but there is a galaxy between them and where Jokic is on offense.

Fwiw he also isnt as bad as you portray him on D. His box numbers have been neutral to positive on that end for about 3 years. He cant elevate but makes up for it with excellent hands, superb IQ, and positioning. A neutral defender and GOAT offensive player is certainly in consideration for a clear MVP.

fwiw i think Giannis might be the best player on the planet right now, but Jokic is a close 2nd and my MVP pick for the 2022-23 regular season.

 

[Cassity14]

Jokic being considered a very bad defender is rooted in big slow white guy stigmas.

He's passable on that end, much like prime Kevin Love was.

 

[cavsfever]

Guys who are big and slow can be passable team defenders on a well coached team with other players willing to work hard and pitch in. (I don't just mean they can be bad and hidden they can be OK based on the space they take up and their intelligence about how position they themselves). That's how I see Jokic.

 

[Rich]

I'm just confused by how much the media heads now allow the stat geeks to determine who MVP is or should be.

Any other year, the guy who is widely considered the best player, when he's on the best team and that team is starting to pull away from the field down the stretch? That's the MVP.

When you consider the Bucks have been w/o their 2nd best player for a majority of the season on top of that? It's puzzling.

This isn't one of those "LeBron is coasting" regular season things here, nor is there a team like the 73 win Warriors that demands to have their best player named MVP.

The Bucks are the best team. Giannis is the best player, not just on that team, but in the league.

He should be the MVP this year.

 

[jmuxl]

I'm just confused by how much the media heads now allow the stat geeks to determine who MVP is or should be.

Any other year, the guy who is widely considered the best player, when he's on the best team and that team is starting to pull away from the field down the stretch? That's the MVP.

When you consider the Bucks have been w/o their 2nd best player for a majority of the season on top of that? It's puzzling.

This isn't one of those "LeBron is coasting" regular season things here, nor is there a team like the 73 win Warriors that demands to have their best player named MVP.

The Bucks are the best team. Giannis is the best player, not just on that team, but in the league.

He should be the MVP this year.

I'd argue Brook Lopez is better, at least right now, than Kris Middleton. I'd also argue that Brook Lopez is a better complementary piece than Jamaal Murray. Just checked the odds, Brook Lopez is the large favorite for DPOY (-160).

I think the roster of Milwaukee excluding Giannis (9-6), is still a playoff team in the East. I can't say the same for Denver (3-5 without Jokic).

Jokic is having likely the best offensive season of all time. He is the more valuable to his team, in the regular season, than Giannis has been this year.

If it's the best player award, sure give it to Giannis. That's not the award. Same as the LeBron argument at the end of the day. I think the race is between Jokic and Embiid. I would choose Jokic.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

How that defense tho? JBB wants defense.

Jazz Rookie Sounds Off on Limiting Jayson Tatum to 15 Points​

Ochai Agbaji came through big time for the Utah Jazz on Saturday night.

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www.si.com

 

[Jscc]

Same as the LeBron argument at the end of the day. I think the race is between Jokic and Embiid. I would choose Jokic.

And LeBron should've won those. So this is a confusing argument.

 

[Cement]

Joker is not a little better than Embiid or Giannis on offense tho. He is in the middle of what might be the best offensive season ever. He is the greatest all around offensive player ever. Embiid and Giannis are both excellent but there is a galaxy between them and where Jokic is on offense.

Fwiw he also isnt as bad as you portray him on D. His box numbers have been neutral to positive on that end for about 3 years. He cant elevate but makes up for it with excellent hands, superb IQ, and positioning. A neutral defender and GOAT offensive player is certainly in consideration for a clear MVP.

fwiw i think Giannis might be the best player on the planet right now, but Jokic is a close 2nd and my MVP pick for the 2022-23 regular season.

The stats mean very little to me. Offense is so out of control right now that you can't compare what Jokic is doing with guys even just a couple years ago.

I read a few weeks ago that, I think, 3 of the 5 best offensive team seasons are happening this year. So don't talk to me about stats and efficiency and all that.

And in any case, there is not a "galaxy between them and Jokic." Hell, Embiid right now is slightly ahead of Jokic in PER.

Hollinger's NBA Player Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN

ESPN.com's John Hollinger has ranked every player by every stat possible in this impressive ESPN insider series. Sort by position, sort by NBA player efficiency rating, the choice is yours!

www.espn.com

And as for defense, stop being a stats geek for two seconds and actually watch the game. Jokic is not a "neutral" defender - I don't care what the stats say (didn't some stats earlier say that Love had better defensive numbers than Mobley earlier this year?). Watch the game.



When you watch Giannis and Embiid, there is no doubt that they are the best players on both ends of the court whatever the stats say (just like Lebron in his prime).

 

[foucault87]

The stats mean very little to me. Offense is so out of control right now that you can't compare what Jokic is doing with guys even just a couple years ago.

I read a few weeks ago that, I think, 3 of the 5 best offensive team seasons are happening this year. So don't talk to me about stats and efficiency and all that.

And in any case, there is not a "galaxy between them and Jokic." Hell, Embiid right now is slightly ahead of Jokic in PER.

Hollinger's NBA Player Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN

ESPN.com's John Hollinger has ranked every player by every stat possible in this impressive ESPN insider series. Sort by position, sort by NBA player efficiency rating, the choice is yours!

www.espn.com

And as for defense, stop being a stats geek for two seconds and actually watch the game. Jokic is not a "neutral" defender - I don't care what the stats say (didn't some stats earlier say that Love had better defensive numbers than Mobley earlier this year?). Watch the game.



When you watch Giannis and Embiid, there is no doubt that they are the best players on both ends of the court whatever the stats say (just like Lebron in his prime).

Yes offense have peak efficiency right now, but if you watch the tape there is a reason Denver is among those teams. Joker is the alpha and omega of that team and he does literally everything for them on offense from scoring, passing, O rebs, screening, post ups, catch and shoot, run off screens etc. There is no debate in my mind that he is clearly the single best offensive player in the league today and again, arguably the best ever.

I will grant that Embiid is ahead of Joker on PER right now but PER isn't considered a top level metric anymore. As it is, I think this is a clear three way race and would not get mad at anyone who said Embiid or Giannis is their MVP.

What I will push back and very hard on is responding to my post by calling me a stat geek and saying stats do not matter. They absolutely do. There is no way to argue math has not affected how we view and value things in the game and we can clearly see that in the offensive revolution of the last few years.


You can't just rely on tape anymore. The examples that you posted are from two games. You need to look at the body of work Jokic has over the last two years. This is not Trae Young or Nikola Vucevic we are talking about. He is a net neutral defender and makes an impact on that end if you think about all the nuances of defense beyond iso scoring.

 

[Rich]

Even if you assume for the sake of argument Jokic is a terrible defender isn't the fact that his teams are always good just evidence he overcomes it anyway?

They were w/o Murray AND Porter Jr. all of last year and still won 48 games.