2022 Minor League Thread

[DickyLeftridge]

Awrite, let's get down to brass tax. Someone help me dig into some of these other 2021 picks and separate wheat from chaff. There's a limitless supply of pitchers and they all seem to be doing pretty good. Do any other than Bibee/Williams project as FOR? Or are we talking Civale/Plesac MOR types? Plutko types?

Jack Leftwich - nice first outing last night in High A
Aaron Davenport - paid relatively highly but seems to be meh so far in High A
Rodney Boone - GOAT name. Up to High A and seems to be doing well.
Will Dion - elite, elite numbers in Low A still. Passed up a couple times for a promotion. Little lefty but #s are there.
Jake Miller - highly paid I believe, still down in Low A.
Ryan Webb - think he was like a 3rd with solid pedigree but coming off TJ. Seen he's back in Rookie dealing probably about to get promoted.

Also, been seeing a lot of love for Jake Fox. Fine by me. Give me the lowdown. Another Freeman type? Better? Not as good?

Nikhazy/Mace I know of. Both are not looking so hot in High A. But this org will round them into shape so not too worried about it.

 

[CDAV45]

I’m glad we protected him, I didn’t know he was that value by us, but Poster said people didn’t want to trade him for Happ in the off-season, when everyone knew we had no corner outfielder at the time, not sure how true that was……

Don't listen to that poster. He likes to move the goal posts and/or take things out of context.

Understand that Happ is performing like he never has. He's basically been a 2 WAR player at best until this season and I like him. Palacios is a damn fine hitter obviously, but he is a bit redundant in this organization IMO. He's a candidate to be moved, but I doubt they trade for a guy like Happ. To do that means taking AB away from any one of several prospects and CA said this would be a season of seeing what they could do and filling needs from within. We'll see what happens. Also, when those conversations took place, none of us knew that Kwan would do so well.

 

[CATS44]

Don't listen to that poster. He likes to move the goal posts and/or take things out of context.

Understand that Happ is performing like he never has. He's basically been a 2 WAR player at best until this season and I like him. Palacios is a damn fine hitter obviously, but he is a bit redundant in this organization IMO. He's a candidate to be moved, but I doubt they trade for a guy like Happ. To do that means taking AB away from any one of several prospects and CA said this would be a season of seeing what they could do and filling needs from within. We'll see what happens. Also, when those conversations took place, none of us knew that Kwan would do so well.

CDAV45

I warned you that if you kept telling lies about me, I'd start quoting you and others about previous debates.



First, you insisted that Happ was not a better player than Renfroe several times on both Dec 12th and 13th. One of your quotes was, 'What would anyone base that off of to make such a crazy claim?'

How's that look now?

I insisted that Happ was a 2.7 fWAR player over 600 PAs, with upside. How's that look now?

On Dec 1st, YOU said, 'I sure as he'll wouldn't trade Palacios to get Happ for 2022 '

Thats your f'ing quote....that you now deny, as you do so many other things. Who's moving what goalposts, compadre?


KluberSociety on Dec 12th said, 'Trading Palacios for Happ would be selling low.'

On Dec 7th, Criznit said about Palacios, 'I'd prefer to keep him than trade him for Happ.'

Criznit also posted two other times saying virtually the same thing.

********

There is more of this if you want it, but between you and me, one should have a broken back from moving goalposts just about every day.

 

[sportscoach]

CDAV45

I warned you that if you kept telling lies about me, I'd start quoting you and others about previous debates.



First, you insisted that Happ was not a better player than Renfroe several times on both Dec 12th and 13th. One of your quotes was, 'What would anyone base that off of to make such a crazy claim?'

How's that look now?

I insisted that Happ was a 2.7 fWAR player over 600 PAs, with upside. How's that look now?

On Dec 1st, YOU said, 'I sure as he'll wouldn't trade Palacios to get Happ for 2022 '

Thats your f'ing quote....that you now deny, as you do so many other things. Who's moving what goalposts, compadre?


KluberSociety on Dec 12th said, 'Trading Palacios for Happ would be selling low.'

On Dec 7th, Criznit said about Palacios, 'I'd prefer to keep him than trade him for Happ.'

Criznit also posted two other times saying virtually the same thing.

********

There is more of this if you want it, but between you and me, one should have a broken back from moving goalposts just about every day.

I'm not paying though what they want for Happ... His numbers this season are nice, but he hasn't ever played this way before and I don't 100% trust guys who randomly double career numbers all of a sudden after being in the bigs for a bunch of years. They have a tendency to come back down to earth and we would have to trade for the guy who isn't down at earth...

 

[CDAV45]

CDAV45

I warned you that if you kept telling lies about me, I'd start quoting you and others about previous debates.



First, you insisted that Happ was not a better player than Renfroe several times on both Dec 12th and 13th. One of your quotes was, 'What would anyone base that off of to make such a crazy claim?'

How's that look now?

I insisted that Happ was a 2.7 fWAR player over 600 PAs, with upside. How's that look now?

On Dec 1st, YOU said, 'I sure as he'll wouldn't trade Palacios to get Happ for 2022 '

Thats your f'ing quote....that you now deny, as you do so many other things. Who's moving what goalposts, compadre?


KluberSociety on Dec 12th said, 'Trading Palacios for Happ would be selling low.'

On Dec 7th, Criznit said about Palacios, 'I'd prefer to keep him than trade him for Happ.'

Criznit also posted two other times saying virtually the same thing.

********

There is more of this if you want it, but between you and me, one should have a broken back from moving goalposts just about every day.

I never denied it which is why I stated what I did and you totally disregarded what I said, but that's not surprising. That quote was long before Kwan did what he's doing and before we knew what kind of hitter Palacios was. You also cherry picked one quote and there are literally dozens of them regarding Happ. You're a gem bud. I would encourage anyone with the desire to find out(nobody does) what was said exactly instead of relying on your BS, slanted take on things.

Happ is not better than Renfroe. Especially when you consider all facets, but you conveniently leave that out when it doesn't suit your argument. Typical CATS. Renfroe has had 3 seasons with a WAR > than 2. Happ has had exactly 0.

You got this hard on for Happ who has never played like he is this season. Not even close so he could turn back into a pumpkin. My feelings were at the time that I didn't want to give up much for him due to him being a <2 WAR player and nearing FA. You're a snake in the grass that loves to leave out context and truth to suit your agenda. You don't know shit and everyone knows it, but yet you have this deal where you think you have to be right like you're looking for some kind of credit. You can take that shit down the road.

 

[sportscoach]

I never denied it which is why I stated what I did and you totally disregarded what I said, but that's not surprising. That quote was long before Kwan did what he's doing and before we knew what kind of hitter Palacios was. You also cherry picked one quote and there are literally dozens of them regarding Happ. You're a gem bud. I would encourage anyone with the desire to find out(nobody does) what was said exactly instead of relying on your BS, slanted take on things.

Happ is not better than Renfroe. Especially when you consider all facets, but you conveniently leave that out when it doesn't suit your argument. Typical CATS. Renfroe has had 3 seasons with a WAR > than 2. Happ has had exactly 0.

You got this hard on for Happ who has never played like he is this season. Not even close so he could turn back into a pumpkin. My feelings were at the time that I didn't want to give up much for him due to him being a <2 WAR player and nearing FA. You're a snake in the grass that loves to leave out context and truth to suit your agenda. You don't know shit and everyone knows it, but yet you have this deal where you think you have to be right like you're looking for some kind of credit. You can take that shit down the road.

Lol you are being too harsh towards the man who got to play baseball when they didn't wear gloves

Either way, majority of us didn't really want Happ at the price people were saying anyways mostly because of what you stated.

 

[CATS44]

I'm not paying though what they want for Happ... His numbers this season are nice, but he hasn't ever played this way before and I don't 100% trust guys who randomly double career numbers all of a sudden after being in the bigs for a bunch of years. They have a tendency to come back down to earth and we would have to trade for the guy who isn't down at earth...

But that wasn't the point, coach.

The point was that many on this forum simply will not trade prospects, even when we have don't have long term room for them, as with Palacios. Richie isn't gonna replace Kwan or Straw, and in the long term, is down the packing order below Valera and Gonzalez.

He's a nice contact bat, but doesn't run well, is a poor defender limited to LF, and has no arm.

We don't have any clue as to what the Cubs would ask for Happ, and I would agree that he is not a 5 WAR player, which is close to his current pace...more like a 3 WAR. But three WAR is pretty darn good, and better than what we have right now.

Happ is a streaky hitter, and hasn't hit a major slump yet. His track record suggests he will. But there are points to consider.

1) He is at an age where many hitters take off. Weve seen a few of them with this franchise.

2) His .842 OPS is not put of line with what he has done in the past...

2017...842
2019...888
2020...866

His two bad seasons were better than what we usually get from our OFs...761 and .757.

3) His numbers over the last calendar year, when he first began working with Valaika, are exceptional and no longer a small sample size.

273/855 in 600 PAs....24 HR...62 XBH...25% K rate.

If he was in the AL, he would be tied with Gimenez...and others...for 13th in fWAR.

Happ isn't the be all that ends all, but he would have made...and could make... a fair size difference in this offense thru next year.

 

[CDAV45]

But that wasn't the point, coach.

The point was that many on this forum simply will not trade prospects, even when we have don't have long term room for them, as with Palacios. Richie isn't gonna replace Kwan or Straw, and in the long term, is down the packing order below Valera and Gonzalez.

He's a nice contact bat, but doesn't run well, is a poor defender limited to LF, and has no arm.

We don't have any clue as to what the Cubs would ask for Happ, and I would agree that he is not a 5 WAR player, which is close to his current pace...more like a 3 WAR. But three WAR is pretty darn good, and better than what we have right now.

Happ is a streaky hitter, and hasn't hit a major slump yet. His track record suggests he will. But there are points to consider.

1) He is at an age where many hitters take off. Weve seen a few of them with this franchise.

2) His .842 OPS is not put of line with what he has done in the past...

2017...842
2019...888
2020...866

His two bad seasons were better than what we usually get from our OFs...761 and .757.

3) His numbers over the last calendar year, when he first began working with Valaika, are exceptional and no longer a small sample size.

273/855 in 600 PAs....24 HR...62 XBH...25% K rate.

If he was in the AL, he would be tied with Gimenez...and others...for 13th in fWAR.

Happ isn't the be all that ends all, but he would have made...and could make... a fair size difference in this offense thru next year.

Again, what you're saying is just not accurate. Nobody here "won't trade prospects" as you claim. Most of us just don't hold them in such low regard as you do. Especially in a season where Antonetti publicly stated that we will be seeing what these kids can do.

Palacios not running well is news to me and he's a recently converted IF to the OF so I think he'll be fine in short order. His bat is redundant though and I've stated that many times so I would deal him. You should love him as he is a "contact" hitter.

I like Happ and always have, but he hasn't even been a 2 WAR player CATS, and who is he going to replace......Kwan? Are you moving Kwan to CF to replace Straw? I'd certainly go for that, but it isn't happening. He's not a RFer and neither is Kwan. Even if they were are you just going to ignore OGon's production/performance?

I do agree that Happ is at the age where many hitters take off. It happens all over the league and I'm sure there are plenty of examples with Cleveland as well over the years.

 

[CATS44]

I never denied it which is why I stated what I did and you totally disregarded what I said, but that's not surprising. That quote was long before Kwan did what he's doing and before we knew what kind of hitter Palacios was. You also cherry picked one quote and there are literally dozens of them regarding Happ. You're a gem bud. I would encourage anyone with the desire to find out(nobody does) what was said exactly instead of relying on your BS, slanted take on things.

Happ is not better than Renfroe. Especially when you consider all facets, but you conveniently leave that out when it doesn't suit your argument. Typical CATS. Renfroe has had 3 seasons with a WAR > than 2. Happ has had exactly 0.

You got this hard on for Happ who has never played like he is this season. Not even close so he could turn back into a pumpkin. My feelings were at the time that I didn't want to give up much for him due to him being a <2 WAR player and nearing FA. You're a snake in the grass that loves to leave out context and truth to suit your agenda. You don't know shit and everyone knows it, but yet you have this deal where you think you have to be right like you're looking for some kind of credit. You can take that shit down the road.

LOL

I will put my posts against yours anytime, and folks can see who knows what.

As for cherry picking, I just posted what you claimed never happened.

******

Now, lets look at Happ vs Renfroe.

Happ has been worth 9.2 fWAR in 2122 PAs.

Renfroe has been worth 7.8 fWAR in 2378 PAs.

Per 600 PAs, Happ has been worth 2.6 fWAR. Renfroe 2.0.

Which numbers are BIGGER?

In rWAR their numbers are similar...Happ 2.6 to Renfroes 2.4.

How about wRC+?

Oops, Happ has been better....115 to 107.

Lets talk about THIS YEAR, which is kinda the point, huh?

fWAR....Happ 2.3....Renfroe...1.0
wRC+....Happ 134...Renfroe 115.

Again, which numbers are BIGGER?

Maybe you value Renfroe over Happ for his prowess with a glove.

Happs FPC as an OF...993. (6 E in 725 games) Thats pretty good, huh,

Renfroes FPC ...963. (36 E in 1064 games.) Thats meat cutting level.

Are there any cherry picked stats in there?

Do you still wish to make a case that Renfroe is the better player?

I will be waiting....for a long time.

 

[CDAV45]

LOL

I will put my posts against yours anytime, and folks can see who knows what.

As for cherry picking, I just posted what you claimed never happened.

******

Now, lets look at Happ vs Renfroe.

Happ has been worth 9.2 fWAR in 2122 PAs.

Renfroe has been worth 7.8 fWAR in 2378 PAs.

Per 600 PAs, Happ has been worth 2.6 fWAR. Renfroe 2.0.

Which numbers are BIGGER?

In rWAR their numbers are similar...Happ 2.6 to Renfroes 2.4.

How about wRC+?

Oops, Happ has been better....115 to 107.

Lets talk about THIS YEAR, which is kinda the point, huh?

fWAR....Happ 2.3....Renfroe...1.0
wRC+....Happ 134...Renfroe 115.

Again, which numbers are BIGGER?

Maybe you value Renfroe over Happ for his prowess with a glove.

Happs FPC as an OF...993. (6 E in 725 games) Thats pretty good, huh,

Renfroes FPC ...963. (36 E in 1064 games.) Thats meat cutting level.

Are there any cherry picked stats in there?

Do you still wish to make a case that Renfroe is the better player?

I will be waiting....for a long time.

It isn't just Renfroe's "prowess with his glove". You're doing it again.

You want to bring up a tidbit from a conversation that happened 7 months ago and then say "lets talk about this year". TF is wrong with you? How about we talk about the 2021 season which is more congruent with that conversation, but you don't want to do that. Regardless, what's the point of any of this? We're not getting Renfroe and we're not getting Happ. I have no desire to argue with you about 2 players that will not be Guardians. I'll leave it with you're right CATS. You're always right CATS. I can't believe you're not a professional scout CATS. It wouldn't surprise me if you played some professional ball CATS. You're my idle CATS. I bet Bimbo gets his info from CATS. We should all look to CATS for the answers.

 

[CATS44]

'A prophet is not without honor, except in his own land.'

As I suspected, you have nothing to back up your assertions.

Happ was brought up, because somebody asked if it was true that there were posters that wouldn't have traded Palacios for Happ. You inferred that it was not true, and also inferred that I was making all this crap up.

Obviously, it was exactly what was said, and you were part of it.

 

[Criznit]

CDAV45

I warned you that if you kept telling lies about me, I'd start quoting you and others about previous debates.



First, you insisted that Happ was not a better player than Renfroe several times on both Dec 12th and 13th. One of your quotes was, 'What would anyone base that off of to make such a crazy claim?'

How's that look now?

I insisted that Happ was a 2.7 fWAR player over 600 PAs, with upside. How's that look now?

On Dec 1st, YOU said, 'I sure as he'll wouldn't trade Palacios to get Happ for 2022 '

Thats your f'ing quote....that you now deny, as you do so many other things. Who's moving what goalposts, compadre?


KluberSociety on Dec 12th said, 'Trading Palacios for Happ would be selling low.'

On Dec 7th, Criznit said about Palacios, 'I'd prefer to keep him than trade him for Happ.'

Criznit also posted two other times saying virtually the same thing.

********

There is more of this if you want it, but between you and me, one should have a broken back from moving goalposts just about every day.

If you "quote" me get it right. Also I still think I prefer Palacios over Happ long term. However Happ is having a career year so IDK

Here is what I said on Decmember 7th exactly... Oh and feel free to go back and read some of your Amed fan mail - some of that is excellent stuff Nostradamus..

"I am probably the biggest Palacios "fan" on this board, and would prefer to keep him then trade him for Happ. However, the FO and others may disagree. That is fine with me, and it would certainly be reasonable. "

 

[CDAV45]

If you "quote" me get it right. Also I still think I prefer Palacios over Happ long term. However Happ is having a career year so IDK

Here is what I said on Decmember 7th exactly... Oh and feel free to go back and read some of your Amed fan mail - some of that is excellent stuff Nostradamus..

"I am probably the biggest Palacios "fan" on this board, and would prefer to keep him then trade him for Happ. However, the FO and others may disagree. That is fine with me, and it would certainly be reasonable. "

Yeah, I'm not even gonna waste my time going back and looking because I know how I felt about the situation then and it hasn't changed. I don't give any credit to dipshits that take things out of context or don't give the complete story. Sound like anyone we know?

 

[kriegs]

Why all the retroactive moaning about Ian Happ? The whole theory of trading for him started with reuniting with Valaika to see what he could unlock. That reality is lost in space and time now so there's absolutely no value in hindsight analysis. Who knows if he would have been worth it? We'll never know...

Also what in the world does he have to do with Guardians minor leagues?

 

[NorthCoastBias]

Why all the retroactive moaning about Ian Happ? The whole theory of trading for him started with reuniting with Valaika to see what he could unlock. That reality is lost in space and time now so there's absolutely no value in hindsight analysis. Who knows if he would have been worth it? We'll never know...

Also what in the world does he have to do with Guardians minor leagues?

Discourse in the entire Guardians section has gone to shit.