2024 Guardians Regular Season Thread

[CDAV45]

Holy hell, dealing starters is NOT the way to go with the way this team goes. Basically everything has to perfectly align with a bunch of filler pieces in order for that to work. Murphy's Law is the first fundamental law of pitching.

Dealing Clase on the other hand can make a lot of sense, though I'd wait to make sure that we actually have extra pieces before we do it, and may make more sense next offseason. I think we have a lot of good bullpen arms, but the rotation is hanging by threads. As far as starters go I think we can think of Bibee and Allen as fairly reliable but beyond that it's all a guess. We need as many starting arms as possible.

It's weird how Curry looked a lot more like a reliever but now seems more like a 5th/6th starter because he didn't really gain that extra bump in velo out of the pen like Gaddis and Morgan did but he got more comfortable with his secondary pitches. That is not the usual trajectory of pitchers though.

Did you not read the part where I stated "if they believe they have the depth or can acquire it"? Nobody said anything about "filler pieces" and if you don't deal McKenzie then you're headed down the same road we travelled with Bieber. You can say hindsight, but it isn't hindsight for me. Besides we currently have all of Bibee, Allen, Carrasco, Curry, Lively and Williams about to return. Cantillo isn't far off either and there is Beede.

Williams as a SP is not "guess". He's as likely to remain healthy as anyone else on the staff. Big, durable dude that doesn't have to overly exerty himself to get to his "stuff".

As many starting arms as possible is behind the reasoning in acquiring a couple of young SP like Hurt and Ryan as examples.

I was never one to pigeon hole Curry into a reliever. He hadn't been a reliever until last season and he's incredibly young and flew through the system as a SP. I doubt it's uncommon for young SP to struggle after a couple of times through a ML lineup. Especially one that isn't a power pitcher.

I can't help but wonder how different things would look right now had they traded Bieber after the 22 season. I'd say it would have infused as much or more talent as the Clevenger deal, but there is no way to know for sure.

 

[MattyFos.]

Did you not read the part where I stated "if they believe they have the depth or can acquire it"? Nobody said anything about "filler pieces" and if you don't deal McKenzie then you're headed down the same road we travelled with Bieber. You can say hindsight, but it isn't hindsight for me. Besides we currently have all of Bibee, Allen, Carrasco, Curry, Lively and Williams about to return. Cantillo isn't far off either and there is Beede.

Williams as a SP is not "guess". He's as likely to remain healthy as anyone else on the staff. Big, durable dude that doesn't have to overly exerty himself to get to his "stuff".

As many starting arms as possible is behind the reasoning in acquiring a couple of young SP like Hurt and Ryan as examples.

I was never one to pigeon hole Curry into a reliever. He hadn't been a reliever until last season and he's incredibly young and flew through the system as a SP. I doubt it's uncommon for young SP to struggle after a couple of times through a ML lineup. Especially one that isn't a power pitcher.

I can't help but wonder how different things would look right now had they traded Bieber after the 22 season. I'd say it would have infused as much or more talent as the Clevenger deal, but there is no way to know for sure.

Clevinger got a fucking haul.

 

[KluberSociety]

Did you not read the part where I stated "if they believe they have the depth or can acquire it"? Nobody said anything about "filler pieces" and if you don't deal McKenzie then you're headed down the same road we travelled with Bieber. You can say hindsight, but it isn't hindsight for me. Besides we currently have all of Bibee, Allen, Carrasco, Curry, Lively and Williams about to return. Cantillo isn't far off either and there is Beede.

Williams as a SP is not "guess". He's as likely to remain healthy as anyone else on the staff. Big, durable dude that doesn't have to overly exerty himself to get to his "stuff".

As many starting arms as possible is behind the reasoning in acquiring a couple of young SP like Hurt and Ryan as examples.

I was never one to pigeon hole Curry into a reliever. He hadn't been a reliever until last season and he's incredibly young and flew through the system as a SP. I doubt it's uncommon for young SP to struggle after a couple of times through a ML lineup. Especially one that isn't a power pitcher.

I can't help but wonder how different things would look right now had they traded Bieber after the 22 season. I'd say it would have infused as much or more talent as the Clevenger deal, but there is no way to know for sure.

Bieber getting hurt is more reason to have more SPs, not less reason.

How does this logic goes? Pitchers can lose their value at any time, so thin out the pitching before more pitchers get hurt?

I don't know who Hunt or Ryan are but if we can't have pitchers that actually are reliable we aren't getting very far, especially with the strain we're already putting on the bullpen with our young pitchers and fillers like Cookie and Curry.

Right now we effectively have 2 pitchers: Bibee and Allen, and a bunch of guys who are big question marks. I've love for Williams to be healthy but you are taking that way too granted. With strength in numbers we at least can hope to scrap together something looking like a full rotation at any given time.

Curry still hasn't really proven much of anything as a starter, it's more that he seems more like a starter than a reliever at this point. I'd bet against him even being a solid #5 pitcher. But even if he ends up being a fine starter, that is one out of the many that you were really high on, including Battenfield, Pilkington, Morris, and Gaddis. All of us liked Williams and Bibee and most of us liked Allen so those don't count. It's these middling pitchers who you pray will be #5's that you seem to always want to count on.

 

[CDAV45]

Bieber getting hurt is more reason to have more SPs, not less reason.

How does this logic goes? Pitchers can lose their value at any time, so thin out the pitching before more pitchers get hurt?

I don't know who Hunt or Ryan are but if we can't have pitchers that actually are reliable we aren't getting very far, especially with the strain we're already putting on the bullpen with our young pitchers and fillers like Cookie and Curry.

Right now we effectively have 2 pitchers: Bibee and Allen, and a bunch of guys who are big question marks. I've love for Williams to be healthy but you are taking that way too granted. With strength in numbers we at least can hope to scrap together something looking like a full rotation at any given time.

Curry still hasn't really proven much of anything as a starter, it's more that he seems more like a starter than a reliever at this point. I'd bet against him even being a solid #5 pitcher. But even if he ends up being a fine starter, that is one out of the many that you were really high on, including Battenfield, Pilkington, Morris, and Gaddis. All of us liked Williams and Bibee and most of us liked Allen so those don't count. It's these middling pitchers who you pray will be #5's that you seem to always want to count on.

Dude! You're not listening to what I'm saying. I'm for creating more options for the rotation which is why I would be open to a deal that sent Clase to the Dodgers for Hurt and Ryan as an example. I'd be open to dealing McKenzie if he has any value. If there was another young, ready SP prospect in the deal then all the better. I'd be open to dealing Kwan for a good SP. I'd certainly be open to dealing Rocchio for a good, ready SP prospect.

Bieber getting hurt is more the reason to deal McKenzie if there is a market. That is a lesson that should have been hard learned. It isn't about "pitchers losing value" as much as it is the Guardians getting no value at all when the pitcher they should have traded can't take the ball every 5th day. So instead of what would have likely been a huge haul for Bieber after the 22 season turned into the Guardians standing with their dicks in their hands and nothing else. No Bieber and no trade return for Bieber.

I know who I would look into, but he is so tainted on this forum as to be compared to the devil regardless of the actual facts.

 

[Tondo]

With Carrasco struggling to go more than 4 innings, why not implement a piggyback with Curry or Lively?

 

[CDAV45]

With Carrasco struggling to go more than 4 innings, why not implement a piggyback with Curry or Lively?

That could work. Whatever it takes to not run our BP's dicks in the dirt. I am curious/anxious to see Lively go. He was one we discussed prior to the season starting that could surprise. We could use that.

 

[sportscoach]

Anyone know what’s going on with Sandy Alomar? Haven’t seen him at first the last few games.

He's been sick... Not sure if it's the same virus bug or not...

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

McKenzie is coming off an arm injury that limited him to four starts last year. Like Beiber, he didn't have surgery. This year he's pitched 13 innings in 3 starts with a 6.23 ERA. He only has 5 strikeouts in 13 innings and his fastball velo is down to 89-90. He has walked 12. And the way starters have been going down this year, there's every chance his next start will be his last.

I don't think we'd be selling high. I doubt we could get anybody for McKenzie that's better than what we have now - at any position.

Clase is a different story because he is healthy and throwing 99. He's also got a very favorable contract and has several years of control left. He has 86 saves in the last two years. Talent, youth, affordability, years of control, experience, and a track record - he has it all.

If Smith, Gaddis, Herrin, Sandlin, and Beede keep flinging it like they have been so far and with Hentges and Karinchak coming back and Aleman on the way, the Guardians could be in a position of strength to the point where Clase could be expendable for a young starter. We could throw in Laureano or Brennan to sweeten the deal.

I'm also interested in the Red Sox situation. They are apparently fresh out of shortstops. Trevor Story is out for the year. He's 31 and his last good year was in 2021.

The only shortstop on their 26-man right now is David Hamilton, age 26, who has a career batting average of .145 in 22 career games. They also have Romy Gonzalez, 27, who is a career .222/.602 hitter. He's on the 10-day.

The Bally guys yesterday were saying the Sox had an outfielder playing shortstop (Cedanne Raffaela) and that he is the best defensive outfielder in their system. He's 23 and is hitting .182 this year.

If only there were a team with an excess of shortstops that the Red Sox could trade with...but who they have I don't know. Their #2 prospect is a SS who is in AA right now so they may elect to just wait on him and trade for a veteran.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The Athletic has a column on three young contact hitters who are trying to add power. One of them is Steven Kwan.

On the player level, the best-case scenario is to take a player with good power and cut the strikeouts, or take a contact hitter and add power. You’re looking for both in the end. And one may be easier to accomplish than the other.

“I think that power is considerably easier to add to someone that already has high bat-to-ball than it is to add bat-to-ball ability,” said Eugene Bleecker of 108 Sports, an independent player development facility.

The Guardians seem to agree. They led the league in contact last year, have plenty of young contact-oriented hitters (like Andrés Giménez, Brayan Rocchio and Tyler Freeman), and have been able to help add power to similar players (like Josh Naylor, José Ramírez and Francisco Lindor). The playbook is there.

But not every player who makes contact and needs to add power is on the same footing — not every player the Guardians run through this process develops power.

“There are a few factors we tend to look for,” The Athletic’s Keith Law said of scouting players who could add oomph as they grow. “The most obvious one is physical projection — a frame that will allow a player to add muscle as he gets older, not just the upper-body muscle that I think fans often associate with power but all-around strength.”

Beyond a projectable frame, there are issues with the swing that can be ironed out.

“Another is when a player shows strength and hard contact but might need some swing help, which is a specialty of the Dodgers,” said Law. “They’ve hit on Will Smith, Chris Taylor and Max Muncy, to name a few, because they saw the high contact quality with swings that didn’t get the ball in the air enough.”

And then some don’t have much power projection.

“If a player needs both things, though — more strength and a swing change — I would be disinclined to project power there,” said Law. “We’ve definitely seen guys who hit the ball on the ground all the time and lacked the strength to foresee power.”

Kwan doesn’t think that lifting the ball is the focus. It sounds like he just wants to hit the ball harder using his current swing mechanics.

“Now I can add to it,” he thought when we talked this spring. “I think what I used to think was my ‘A’ swing was really like a ‘B’ swing. Now I add intention and anticipation and effort sometimes when I swing.”

The evidence isn’t quite there yet.

[The column provides a chart showing Kwan's max EV and hard hit percentage have not changed since his rookie season. The max EV is in the 3rd percentile and the HH% is in the lowest 1%. What has changed is his barrel percentage has gone from the bottom two percentiles the last two years to the 19th percentile this year. He's getting a lot more balls into that more productive launch angle range. He's at nearly 16 degrees on average this year as opposed to 10-12 degrees the last two years.]

 

[KluberSociety]

Dude! You're not listening to what I'm saying. I'm for creating more options for the rotation which is why I would be open to a deal that sent Clase to the Dodgers for Hurt and Ryan as an example. I'd be open to dealing McKenzie if he has any value. If there was another young, ready SP prospect in the deal then all the better. I'd be open to dealing Kwan for a good SP. I'd certainly be open to dealing Rocchio for a good, ready SP prospect.

Bieber getting hurt is more the reason to deal McKenzie if there is a market. That is a lesson that should have been hard learned. It isn't about "pitchers losing value" as much as it is the Guardians getting no value at all when the pitcher they should have traded can't take the ball every 5th day. So instead of what would have likely been a huge haul for Bieber after the 22 season turned into the Guardians standing with their dicks in their hands and nothing else. No Bieber and no trade return for Bieber.

I know who I would look into, but he is so tainted on this forum as to be compared to the devil regardless of the actual facts.

I am seeing what you are proposing and it's always cheap young lotto ticket arms when what we need is innings and dependability. As far as I am concerned if they are young and available there is a reason and they won't fit our need. I have nothing against the idea of trading any particular player but if we're trading a guy we can't depend on and getting back guys we can't depend on, what's the point. In a season where we are somehow leading despite having a sketchy rotation, I think we should be shoring up that rotation.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

In a season where we are somehow leading despite having a sketchy rotation, I think we should be shoring up that rotation.

With the "pitching pandemic" going on are there any teams willing to trade major league or major league ready starters? At the rate starters are dropping I kind of doubt it.

One guy I might enquire about is the A's Paul Blackburn. So far the 31-year-old has started three games and pitched 19.1 scoreless innings with a WHIP of 0.72. Now I don't feel so bad about him shutting us out for seven innings; he did the same thing to the next two teams he faced.

Blackburn is making just $3.5 million this year and will go to arbitration next year, so he is under control for one more season.

The A's aren't going anywhere this year and Fangraphs ranked their farm system 28th last year. I would send them a couple of prospects for Blackburn before somebody else nabs him.

 

[daddywags]

With the "pitching pandemic" going on are there any teams willing to trade major league or major league ready starters? At the rate starters are dropping I kind of doubt it.

One guy I might enquire about is the A's Paul Blackburn. So far the 31-year-old has started three games and pitched 19.1 scoreless innings with a WHIP of 0.72. Now I don't feel so bad about him shutting us out for seven innings; he did the same thing to the next two teams he faced.

Blackburn is making just $3.5 million this year and will go to arbitration next year, so he is under control for one more season.

The A's aren't going anywhere this year and Fangraphs ranked their farm system 28th last year. I would send them a couple of prospects for Blackburn before somebody else nabs him.

Good idea, but I think you just explained why he's going to be insanely expensive.

 

[Otsego Mar]

It makes no sense to move on from Laureano because he is our only RHB OF aside from Freeman who is still new there, and has good historical stats against LHP. Florial has no options. I don't like the way it sounds cause I actually think he will be pretty good but if we needed to make room it'd be easiest to option Brennan.

# of Options Remaining:
Brennan - 3
Laureano - 2
Arias/Freeman/Rocchio - 1
Florial - 0

Pedestrian

 

[Criznit]

With the "pitching pandemic" going on are there any teams willing to trade major league or major league ready starters? At the rate starters are dropping I kind of doubt it.

One guy I might enquire about is the A's Paul Blackburn. So far the 31-year-old has started three games and pitched 19.1 scoreless innings with a WHIP of 0.72. Now I don't feel so bad about him shutting us out for seven innings; he did the same thing to the next two teams he faced.

Blackburn is making just $3.5 million this year and will go to arbitration next year, so he is under control for one more season.

The A's aren't going anywhere this year and Fangraphs ranked their farm system 28th last year. I would send them a couple of prospects for Blackburn before somebody else nabs him.

A's aren't trading Blackburn anytime soon, that would be foolhardy.. Sure make them a ridiculous offer and they may bite. Otherwise, the soonest he will be available is around the trade deadline. Also they may wait until the off-season if they do not get an offer they fancy.

He's their best trade chip so they'll let him keep building value IMO.

 

[petes999]

The A's aren't going anywhere this year and Fangraphs ranked their farm system 28th last year. I would send them a couple of prospects for Blackburn before somebody else nabs him.