23 GM Thread

[CDAV45]

I'm with tondo on this one!

His OPS+ is 93 and he has been DH literally the entire season.

What are you willing to give up for him though?

Just stating "Meneses is a mirage" without any actual factual data to support that claim is....well......stupid. He's not a mirage anymore than any other player that has hit well. If Meneses is a mirage then every player is a possible mirage.

In a much larger sample size last season he carried and OPS+ of 167. He's putting the bat on the ball which is made evident by his .287 BA. He hasn't lost power and I'd bet there will be a surge of it shortly from him. What did he hit in the WBC?

I'd give up one of Gaddis or Battenfield if they need SP. If they need a MIF prospect then Tena or maybe even Freeman.

 

[sportscoach]

Just stating "Meneses is a mirage" without any actual factual data to support that claim is....well......stupid. He's not a mirage anymore than any other player that has hit well. If Meneses is a mirage then every player is a possible mirage.

In a much larger sample size last season he carried and OPS+ of 167. He's putting the bat on the ball which is made evident by his .287 BA. He hasn't lost power and I'd bet there will be a surge of it shortly from him. What did he hit in the WBC?

I'd give up one of Gaddis or Battenfield if they need SP. If they need a MIF prospect then Tena or maybe even Freeman.

He has less than 100 OPS+ this season and he cannot field either... Like I am not against getting him, but he's not someone Cleveland will be willing to invest much into. Tena or Palacios, I could live with and maybe Gaddis, but anything better than those guys, it's for sure a no from me...

 

[CDAV45]

He has less than 100 OPS+ this season and he cannot field either... Like I am not against getting him, but he's not someone Cleveland will be willing to invest much into. Tena or Palacios, I could live with and maybe Gaddis, but anything better than those guys, it's for sure a no from me...

Oh I see, we're going to ignore his career and make a final decision on what kind of player he is over the course of 157 AB in which he's carrying a BA of .287. So far in his young ML career(379 AB) he's slashing 309/345/483/828 with 21 2B and 15 HR. Over the course of a full season(600 AB) that averages out to be 34 2B and 24 HR. His power numbers aren't at their normal level right now, but they'll come as the season progresses. He's a good fit for this team. He isn't expensive and he's controlled through 2029. Yes he didn't get the call until he was 30, but he's produced since getting called and long before that too.

I don't know if you've watched him at all, but I have and he can play a good 1B and he's was getting better in RF.

Who said anything about "investing much" into him? I told you what I would give and it isn't much.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Oh I see, we're going to ignore his career and make a final decision on what kind of player he is over the course of 157 AB in which he's carrying a BA of .287. So far in his young ML career(379 AB) he's slashing 309/345/483/828 with 21 2B and 15 HR. Over the course of a full season(600 AB) that averages out to be 34 2B and 24 HR. His power numbers aren't at their normal level right now, but they'll come as the season progresses. He's a good fit for this team. He isn't expensive and he's controlled through 2029. Yes he didn't get the call until he was 30, but he's produced since getting called and long before that too.

I don't know if you've watched him at all, but I have and he can play a good 1B and he's was getting better in RF.

Who said anything about "investing much" into him? I told you what I would give and it isn't much.

I like Menenses, but here's the problem. At 1B / DH we have Naylor and Bell. I don't really want Naylor in RF. Bell will be opting in for 2024 because who the hell else would offer him that kind of money? So Menenses would become the RH DH, and that's about it.
As for RF, I would like to wait for OGonz to get straightened out.

 

[CDAV45]

I like Menenses, but here's the problem. At 1B / DH we have Naylor and Bell. I don't really want Naylor in RF. Bell will be opting in for 2024 because who the hell else would offer him that kind of money? So Menenses would become the RH DH, and that's about it.
As for RF, I would like to wait for OGonz to get straightened out.

I'm hoping Bell opts out, but he might not. If he doesn't then he probably had a shitty season with us.

Right now, Meneses makes us better. Naylor at 1B, Meneses in RF and Bell DHing would be optimal IMO. OGon is a wildcard and if the reason for not getting Meneses is having OGon then I can understand that.

 

[petes999]

I'm hoping Bell opts out, but he might not. If he doesn't then he probably had a shitty season with us.

Right now, Meneses makes us better. Naylor at 1B, Meneses in RF and Bell DHing would be optimal IMO. OGon is a wildcard and if the reason for not getting Meneses is having OGon then I can understand that.

As you know it is really 3 guys for RF Oscar, Brennan and later Valera. And, with the focus on LHB (to many chagrin), they see it not as a fault per se but as a strategy (or why continue it over and over again) - and just getting a FA RHB when needed. I just don't see Meneses really having a role without Bell being plugged in as there is no room for someone who is getting a bit lucky (compared to our unlucky). His BABip last year was .371 (.420 vs LHP) and is .352 this year. Now, I sometimes believe some guys can maintain a higher (or lower) BABip but it was .320 in the last 2 years of his minors (in 800 ABs). Thus, 2022 success with.371 BABip (where pitchers were not worried about Nationals and scouting reports) was a bit better than what we should expect going forward with a better plan going into these series vs him (esp if he gets moved to a playoff team).

 

[CDAV45]

As you know it is really 3 guys for RF Oscar, Brennan and later Valera. And, with the focus on LHB (to many chagrin), they see it not as a fault per se but as a strategy (or why continue it over and over again) - and just getting a FA RHB when needed. I just don't see Meneses really having a role without Bell being plugged in as there is no room for someone who is getting a bit lucky (compared to our unlucky). His BABip last year was .371 (.420 vs LHP) and is .352 this year. Now, I sometimes believe some guys can maintain a higher (or lower) BABip but it was .320 in the last 2 years of his minors (in 800 ABs). Thus, 2022 success with.371 BABip (where pitchers were not worried about Nationals and scouting reports) was a bit better than what we should expect going forward with a better plan going into these series vs him (esp if he gets moved to a playoff team).

That's cool, I'm not trying to sell him to you or anyone else. He's just a good RHH with pop that I think would be a better option in RF than anyone we currently have. I also think he could be had for a reasonable price, but I don't have any hard evidence for that. Getting a guy like Hays or Ward is going to cost enough to be uncomfortable, or at least it should if they were even available. If they were on my roster I'd demand a good bit for them. Ultimately, OGon could be the longterm answer to what I want, but he doesn't have the track record yet so it's hard to say. I don't think he'll ever be a top 10 RFer and I'd like to at least attempt to land that type of player, even if in potential only.

Should I turn my attention back to Renfroe.............again?

 

[sportscoach]

That's cool, I'm not trying to sell him to you or anyone else. He's just a good RHH with pop that I think would be a better option in RF than anyone we currently have. I also think he could be had for a reasonable price, but I don't have any hard evidence for that. Getting a guy like Hays or Ward is going to cost enough to be uncomfortable, or at least it should if they were even available. If they were on my roster I'd demand a good bit for them. Ultimately, OGon could be the longterm answer to what I want, but he doesn't have the track record yet so it's hard to say. I don't think he'll ever be a top 10 RFer and I'd like to at least attempt to land that type of player, even if in potential only.

Should I turn my attention back to Renfroe.............again?

Sadly I don't think Renfroe is available now...

 

[CDAV45]

Sadly I don't think Renfroe is available now...

OK, how about Ward then?

 

[sportscoach]

OK, how about Ward then?

I have a hunch the Angels may actually go for it and keep Ohtani...

It depends on where they are at, when it comes to the deadline as well, but right now they are buyers...

 

[CDAV45]

I have a hunch the Angels may actually go for it and keep Ohtani...

It depends on where they are at, when it comes to the deadline as well, but right now they are buyers...

....and what do they need? Where do they have depth to trade? If your "hunch" is correct and they are "buyers" they are buying via trade and their minor league system doesn't give them much capital.

 

[sportscoach]

....and what do they need? Where do they have depth to trade? If your "hunch" is correct and they are "buyers" they are buying via trade and their minor league system doesn't give them much capital.

Yeah I know, they don't have a lot of assets in all honesty...

If they keep Ward and Ohtani, their lineup will be fine. They really need to find a way to get a rental SP that's solid and maybe bullpen depth... On paper it's smarter to sell Ohtani unless they feel they can resign him.

 

[CDAV45]

Yeah I know, they don't have a lot of assets in all honesty...

If they keep Ward and Ohtani, their lineup will be fine. They really need to find a way to get a rental SP that's solid and maybe bullpen depth... On paper it's smarter to sell Ohtani unless they feel they can resign him.

If they trade for SP it will likely be one of their OFers. Especially with Moniak hitting well.

 

[Gson]

In as much as the Angels have a fine catching group that consists of the young starter, Logan O'Hoppe (had shoulder surgery that could be significant going forward), a more than adequate back up in Matt Thais and a pair of grizzled veterans in Chad Wallach & Max Stassi, the Angels have what might otherwise be considered surplus catching & at the ML level.. The Angels also have young switch hitting Edgar Quero (no relation to Jeferson Quero, a catcher in the Brewers organization) who in addition to being projected as a 2025 ML'er, would be a fine addition to the Guardians minor league system, now.

The notion has been floated that whoever and whatever the Guardians acquire during the 2023 season, they MUST contribute immediately.. HORSESHIT.. Now is the time to get the guy who won't be affordable next year and the year following.. If it costs a # 4/#5 SP or a middle infield prospect that is covered by the Guardians own depth.. it works for both clubs..

The rest of the Angels minor league system as stated.. less than impressive.. They have a couple of pitchers that could be interesting bullpen pieces (Joyce & Bush).. but nothing else worth considering...

 

[petes999]

Yeah I know, they don't have a lot of assets in all honesty...

If they keep Ward and Ohtani, their lineup will be fine. They really need to find a way to get a rental SP that's solid and maybe bullpen depth... On paper it's smarter to sell Ohtani unless they feel they can resign him.

Angels are either all-in ... need to win to keep Ohtani or they should trade him as 1-comp pick isn't enough. If we trade with them, I would look at Querro as a center piece. Per BTV, a Civale plus little gets you to Querro but they won't do that. They need a bigger pitching piece (someone to be a back-end BP piece in playoffs or top-3 starter). For Bieber, if we ever trade him, I would do Querro + but then there is no one close unless they are foolish enough to do Bieber + Rosario for Neto + Querro. Yet, a Bieber for Querro + Detmer gets you close too. Give them the experience for a playoff run and us another younger controllable pitcher who can be flipped elsewhere later.