23 Offseason GM Thread

[Gson]

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Small trade idea... Moving Palacios for BPA. I am thinking the Rangers so moving him for someone like Bratt, I think would be in Cleveland's best interest... Not sure exactly who Texas is willing to give up... Could try OF Osuna or SS Cueva as well...

...in the Rangers system.. there are a LOT of guys who have almost zero chance of making it out of the bushes.. It's difficult to determine their level of "heart" that will allow them to do so.. but, the rangers have one of those systems that has several possible gems deeply buried.. Guys like Josh Stephan, Yeisson Morrobel, Rickey Vanasco and Maximo Acosta all fit this description.. IDK why, but guys like these, seem to get lost in the Texas system and or never get any better than the level they were drafted at.. IDK if it's just poor talent (I doubt), poor coaching (very likely) and or screwed up priorities as prospects in favor of other prospects.. None of these four guys are anywhere close to being ML ready.. but.. give them a couple years in an MiLB system that really cares about their guys like the Guardians' system.. and who knows???

 

[sportscoach]

...in the Rangers system.. there are a LOT of guys who have almost zero chance of making it out of the bushes.. It's difficult to determine their level of "heart" that will allow them to do so.. but, the rangers have one of those systems that has several possible gems deeply buried.. Guys like Josh Stephan, Yeisson Morrobel, Rickey Vanasco and Maximo Acosta all fit this description.. IDK why, but guys like these, seem to get lost in the Texas system and or never get any better than the level they were drafted at.. IDK if it's just poor talent (I doubt), poor coaching (very likely) and or screwed up priorities as prospects in favor of other prospects.. None of these four guys are anywhere close to being ML ready.. but.. give them a couple years in an MiLB system that really cares about their guys like the Guardians' system.. and who knows???

Well we are trying to get max value for Palacios then Rangers might be the right bet... I'm not exactly worried about the system, just getting someone potential for Palacios

 

[MadThinker88]

Question: Is OF Hunter Renfroe a target that should be explored???

Someone on a Brewer board crafted a 3 team deal for MKE/ CLE/ MIN.
Brewers get: Gio Urshela
Twins get: Amed Rosario
CLE gets: Hunter Renfroe (& possibly a sweetner).

All 3 players are entering final year of club control and would be looking at roughly a $10M salary next year via arbitration.

The Brewer fan that proposed the above deal was suggesting Kwan to CF, Oscar to LF & Renfroe to RF (with Straw to the bench implied).
Personally I think Brennan & Valera are in the OF mix in 2023 so getting another OF into the mix is not a pressing off-season need.

What says this board????

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Question: Is OF Hunter Renfroe a target that should be explored???

Someone on a Brewer board crafted a 3 team deal for MKE/ CLE/ MIN.
Brewers get: Gio Urshela
Twins get: Amed Rosario
CLE gets: Hunter Renfroe (& possibly a sweetner).

All 3 players are entering final year of club control and would be looking at roughly a $10M salary next year via arbitration.

The Brewer fan that proposed the above deal was suggesting Kwan to CF, Oscar to LF & Renfroe to RF (with Straw to the bench implied).
Personally I think Brennan & Valera are in the OF mix in 2023 so getting another OF into the mix is not a pressing off-season need.

What says this board????

If the deal is on the table to move Amed plus sweetener for Renfroe, I am 100% in.

We get a plus everyday RF, who is also a right-handed power bat? I dig it.

 

[MadThinker88]

If the deal is on the table to move Amed plus sweetener for Renfroe, I am 100% in.

We get a plus everyday RF, who is also a right-handed power bat? I dig it.

From that other fans perspective Rosario would net Renfroe PLUS a sweetner...

From what I can see, Renfroe is about to turn 31 and a significant downgrade on D from Oscar (I could well be reading those D stats backward).
Renfroe strikes me as someone often plugged into the DH role which puts the club back to the Franmil Reyes days for roster/ lineup construction...

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

From that other fans perspective Rosario would net Renfroe PLUS a sweetner...

From what I can see, Renfroe is about to turn 31 and a significant downgrade on D from Oscar (I could well be reading those D stats backward).
Renfroe strikes me as someone often plugged into the DH role which puts the club back to the Franmil Reyes days for roster/ lineup construction...

Wait, I thought Hunter Renfroe was considered a plus-defensive RF with one of the better arms in the game.

Am I completely off base there? (on a work meeting while in the basement on just my laptop's screen... have to be far away from the baby being put to bed. Otherwise I'd be looking up the stats)

I thought both Renfroe and Amed have one arbitration year left. Give me the guy with an OPS+ of 126 over the guy with an OPS+ of 106.

Seemed like a fair swap. We sold from our glut of MIF to buy a right-handed power bat.

 

[daddywags]

I would do Rosario for Renfroe but his defensive stats per bref are below league average. Still I would take his RH bat.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I would do Rosario for Renfroe but his defensive stats per bref are below league average. Still I would take his RH bat.

Looks like he was absolutely elite in 2019, and slightly below average now. Per fangraphs.

I'd still take him.

 

[Gson]

Question: Is OF Hunter Renfroe a target that should be explored???

Someone on a Brewer board crafted a 3 team deal for MKE/ CLE/ MIN.
Brewers get: Gio Urshela
Twins get: Amed Rosario
CLE gets: Hunter Renfroe (& possibly a sweetner).

All 3 players are entering final year of club control and would be looking at roughly a $10M salary next year via arbitration.

The Brewer fan that proposed the above deal was suggesting Kwan to CF, Oscar to LF & Renfroe to RF (with Straw to the bench implied).
Personally I think Brennan & Valera are in the OF mix in 2023 so getting another OF into the mix is not a pressing off-season need.

What says this board????

A doable trade... Renfroe adds a power element not found.. the loss of Rosaria will be hurtful but with a much better chance to be replaced than what Renfroe brings.. (note: money aside)..

 

[hockeyjohn]

Question: Is OF Hunter Renfroe a target that should be explored???

Someone on a Brewer board crafted a 3 team deal for MKE/ CLE/ MIN.
Brewers get: Gio Urshela
Twins get: Amed Rosario
CLE gets: Hunter Renfroe (& possibly a sweetner).

All 3 players are entering final year of club control and would be looking at roughly a $10M salary next year via arbitration.

The Brewer fan that proposed the above deal was suggesting Kwan to CF, Oscar to LF & Renfroe to RF (with Straw to the bench implied).
Personally I think Brennan & Valera are in the OF mix in 2023 so getting another OF into the mix is not a pressing off-season need.

What says this board????

I don't see the need for Renfroe at all. He would just tie up DH. I would rather find another bat that can play 1B to help Naylor.

 

[petes999]

I don't see the need for Renfroe at all. He would just tie up DH. I would rather find another bat that can play 1B to help Naylor.

I agree, when 1/3+ of the DH at bats tend to be our starters getting rest. Then you are just having Renfroe and Oscar just competing for RF job. You are then assuming Kwan goes to CF over Brennan who rests vs LHP and where is Straw?

If Freeman is our utility guy, just have him DH vs LHP (no power) but with the change of holding runners, a single can going to become a double 10-20% of the time.

 

[sportscoach]

Am I the only one that believes we shouldn't settle with the pen that we have, but keep trying to upgrade it more, not trade from it? I don't think the depth is as strong as people think...

 

[Gson]

Am I the only one that believes we shouldn't settle with the pen that we have, but keep trying to upgrade it more, not trade from it? I don't think the depth is as strong as people think...

trading from it as well as building it more..

Hypothetical Example:

Guardians & Mariners create a deal whereby the M's are dead set on getting Andres Gimenez.. They want Karinchak along with him.. while the Guardians want Andres Munoz, Harry Ford and the M's will pay $ 20 MM to take a fully healthy and star of the 2022 AFL Evan White off their hands..

Why do this trade..

-Karinchak gives a lot of posters on this site.. anxiety.. Me too..
-Munoz doesn't and has as much upside at Emmanuel Clase as an RP
-The M's absolutely LOVE what Gimenez is: a SS that can/will play 2B..
-Amed Rosario stays.. making Hosey Happy..
-Harry Ford is the catcher that the Guardians hoped (past tense) Lavastida would become
-Evan White was just a throw in... literally. He only costs a roster spot.. but..is that RHH masher that can really hit & played GG 1B defense.. He has no place to go with the M's

Is this going to happen?.. like most trade suggestions.. very VERY little chance.. but.. it's the kind of deal that would allow the Guardians to build/improve the pen AND trade from it..

 

[petes999]

Am I the only one that believes we shouldn't settle with the pen that we have, but keep trying to upgrade it more, not trade from it? I don't think the depth is as strong as people think...

I think the question is which 20 pitchers are we going to settle with. And, right now our strength are prospect starters who can fill in any holes in the pen to gain experience (like Morris did this year). And, what you are talking about with Sandlin and Santos is filling 45-50 innings this year (even less for LOOGY or your last guy behind them) is it worth it? I like Misiaszek and Hentges as Loogies with Cantillo in a year. Do we need more? Maybe for 1 year but look

This year's 20 man staff - (1) Bieber, (2) McK, (3) Quant, (4) Civale, (5) Plesac, (6) Clase, (7) Steph, (8) Kar, (9) Morgan, (10) Hentges, (11) Sandlin ... (12) Morris, (13) Vargas, (14) Santos, (15) Battenfield, (16) Cantillo, (17) Curry, (18) Pilk, (19 & 20) pick from Hankins, Gaddis, McCarty, Miko and Misiaszek

So yes, you can upgrade some of those later guys. However, you also need to look at the next year prospects because anyone in those 19 and 20 slots are up for turnover during the year. So, are you going to spend assets that will mature (greater trade value for young starters than an aging reliever you want) and lose that room and asset for next year? Guardians are known for developing great starters, use that as an asset for future needs or younger prospects when you trade off a Gaddis/Santos or Curry.

2023-24 20 man staff - (1) Bieber (or a starting prosepect we trade for w/ him that needs protection), (2) McK, (3) Quant, (4) Morris, (5) Allen Jr, (6) Clase, (7) Steph, (8) Kar, (9) Morgan, (10) Hentges, (11) Vargas, (12) Sandlin as your 7th reliever, (13) Battenfield, (14) Cantillo, (15) Espino, (16) Burns, (17) Hankins, (18-20) pick 3 of 12 possible guys from Santos, Pilk, Curry, Gaddis, McCarty, Miko, Misiaszek, Herrin, Hickman, Smith, Torres, Wolf -- and are Bibee and Williams coming up in 23 if in playoffs or early 24 for one of the 20 spots?

I took out Civale and Plesac and assume no young prospect pitching protection in return.... You can argue Santos isn't around as 8th reliever. I am just really high on Vargas with 98-100 mph FB and one of our best sliders in the system if I remember. How do all these guys fit with one more reliever somewhere? For me Cantillo is your Loogy/reliever of the future as we may not have a starter role for him.

 

[sportscoach]

I think the question is which 20 pitchers are we going to settle with. And, right now our strength are prospect starters who can fill in any holes in the pen to gain experience (like Morris did this year). And, what you are talking about with Sandlin and Santos is filling 45-50 innings this year (even less for LOOGY or your last guy behind them) is it worth it? I like Misiaszek and Hentges as Loogies with Cantillo in a year. Do we need more? Maybe for 1 year but look

This year's 20 man staff - (1) Bieber, (2) McK, (3) Quant, (4) Civale, (5) Plesac, (6) Clase, (7) Steph, (8) Kar, (9) Morgan, (10) Hentges, (11) Sandlin ... (12) Morris, (13) Vargas, (14) Santos, (15) Battenfield, (16) Cantillo, (17) Curry, (18) Pilk, (19 & 20) pick from Hankins, Gaddis, McCarty, Miko and Misiaszek

So yes, you can upgrade some of those later guys. However, you also need to look at the next year prospects because anyone in those 19 and 20 slots are up for turnover during the year. So, are you going to spend assets that will mature (greater trade value for young starters than an aging reliever you want) and lose that room and asset for next year? Guardians are known for developing great starters, use that as an asset for future needs or younger prospects when you trade off a Gaddis/Santos or Curry.

2023-24 20 man staff - (1) Bieber (or a starting prosepect we trade for w/ him that needs protection), (2) McK, (3) Quant, (4) Morris, (5) Allen Jr, (6) Clase, (7) Steph, (8) Kar, (9) Morgan, (10) Hentges, (11) Vargas, (12) Sandlin as your 7th reliever, (13) Battenfield, (14) Cantillo, (15) Espino, (16) Burns, (17) Hankins, (18-20) pick 3 of 12 possible guys from Santos, Pilk, Curry, Gaddis, McCarty, Miko, Misiaszek, Herrin, Hickman, Smith, Torres, Wolf -- and are Bibee and Williams coming up in 23 if in playoffs or early 24 for one of the 20 spots?

I took out Civale and Plesac and assume no young prospect pitching protection in return.... You can argue Santos isn't around as 8th reliever. I am just really high on Vargas with 98-100 mph FB and one of our best sliders in the system if I remember. How do all these guys fit with one more reliever somewhere? For me Cantillo is your Loogy/reliever of the future as we may not have a starter role for him.

I just feel like we need one more proven MLB LHRP for high leverage situations...

I am not talking about a Loogy type, I am talking about a setup type, closer to what Miller was. A guy we can setup Clase and/or take a few saves here and there with Karinchak. I'm not talking about a low end guy