23 Offseason GM Thread

[CDAV45]

OK, I was screwing around on the BTV site and wanted to see what a trade with the Angels could look like. I had Bieber, Rosario and Sandlin going to the Angels for Sandoval, Ward and Rengifo. The values were damn near dead even(75.7 & 75.9) so according to that site's variables it works. That would free up the idea of sending OGon and another player/prospect to the Marlins for Luzardo.

Would our playoff chances be hurt or helped by exchanging OGon for Ward, Rengifo for Rosario, and Bieber and Sandlin for Sandoval and Luzardo? I'm not sure the Angels agree to this because Sandoval was impressive last season and Ward is a stud. However, they did trade for Renfroe and aren't short on OFers. They also get a good BP arm in Sandlin along with a stopgap SS in Rosario. Again, I'm not saying this should happen. I did it more with the idea that Bieber can be dealt without hurting this team's chances of competing in the postseason. I think there is an argument that these 2 congruent moves improves the overall roster and gives them more control as Sandoval and Luzardo don't reach FA until 2027. It also moves Quantrill down in the rotation to the #4 where he probably should be.

 

[KluberSociety]

Interesting idea. Apart from what I feel is a poor fit of Rengifo I can see it working if and only if you're able to pull off that OGon for top 3 SP trade, which Luzardo does qualify for to me.

With Rengifo, you're trading down in quality for control and flexibility. We don't need either given our abundance of MIF talent who we will have controlled for a long damn time.

With Sandoval you're trading a bit down in quality for control. This is good if and only if we add another FOR pitcher (as you mentioned, Luzardo).

Ward would fill in the gap left by OGon sure... Sandlin is expendable.

 

[Gson]

OK, I was screwing around on the BTV site and wanted to see what a trade with the Angels could look like. I had Bieber, Rosario and Sandlin going to the Angels for Sandoval, Ward and Rengifo. The values were damn near dead even(75.7 & 75.9) so according to that site's variables it works. That would free up the idea of sending OGon and another player/prospect to the Marlins for Luzardo.

Would our playoff chances be hurt or helped by exchanging OGon for Ward, Rengifo for Rosario, and Bieber and Sandlin for Sandoval and Luzardo? I'm not sure the Angels agree to this because Sandoval was impressive last season and Ward is a stud. However, they did trade for Renfroe and aren't short on OFers. They also get a good BP arm in Sandlin along with a stopgap SS in Rosario. Again, I'm not saying this should happen. I did it more with the idea that Bieber can be dealt without hurting this team's chances of competing in the postseason. I think there is an argument that these 2 congruent moves improves the overall roster and gives them more control as Sandoval and Luzardo don't reach FA until 2027. It also moves Quantrill down in the rotation to the #4 where he probably should be.

hmm... looks like you're gaining on @sportscoach who has posted three (3) times as many Bieber trades on BTV than ANYONE ELSE in the last five months.. 70 of them!!..

 

[sportscoach]

hmm... looks like you're gaining on @sportscoach who has posted three (3) times as many Bieber trades on BTV than ANYONE ELSE in the last five months.. 70 of them!!..

Actually it's that TimFrith guy who has me beat lol Actually people are still posting Bieber deals and some even said whatever Antonetti said doesnt matter, since Cleveland is going to trade Bieber. Bieber isn't going anywhere for 23...

Also I'm looking at these names, Luzardo or Lopez makes sense, Marquez makes sense, CJ Cron, Cleveland has no interest in anymore since we have Bell. Why would we even entertain that idea?

If OGonz goes anywhere @CDAV45 and others... It will be for a guy like Reynolds, they aren't trading him for an SP... None of the main 12 (in my mind) outside or Rosario is really available so B. Naylor, Zunino, Bell, J. Naylor, Gimenez, JRam, Arias, Kwan, Straw, OGonz, Brennan... Those guys are going to get most of the ABs in 23...

 

[Criznit]

Actually it's that TimFrith guy who has me beat lol Actually people are still posting Bieber deals and some even said whatever Antonetti said doesnt matter, since Cleveland is going to trade Bieber. Bieber isn't going anywhere for 23...

Also I'm looking at these names, Luzardo or Lopez makes sense, Marquez makes sense, CJ Cron, Cleveland has no interest in anymore since we have Bell. Why would we even entertain that idea?

If OGonz goes anywhere @CDAV45 and others... It will be for a guy like Reynolds, they aren't trading him for an SP... None of the main 12 (in my mind) outside or Rosario is really available so B. Naylor, Zunino, Bell, J. Naylor, Gimenez, JRam, Arias, Kwan, Straw, OGonz, Brennan... Those guys are going to get most of the ABs in 23...

Because adding another bat is quite possible that is why... Cron is one we have previously checked in on. Your opinion is NOT fact. My opinions, my pontifications are merely that. They are NOT facts as well.

It's a discussion and often involves abstract thinking, you need absolutes - I get it.

 

[sportscoach]

Because adding another bat is quite possible that is why... Cron is one we have previously checked in on. Your opinion is NOT fact.

It's a discussion and often involves abstract thinking, you need absolutes - I get it.

Naw, it's not that I need absolutes, it's the fact, he isnt a logical target... Where does he play and when does he play? They are going to want Bell and Naylor as many ABs as possible and Cron just doesn't have any AB since we cannot play Bell, Naylor, and Cron at the same time unless we take ABs away from OGonz... so we are only going to play Cron against lefties and make him a full platoon with Naylor. It just doesn't make sense on paper nor does it make sense for the player...

 

[Criznit]

Naw, it's not that I need absolutes, it's the fact, he isnt a logical target... Where does he play and when does he play? They are going to want Bell and Naylor as many ABs as possible and Cron just doesn't have any AB since we cannot play Bell, Naylor, and Cron at the same time unless we take ABs away from OGonz... so we are only going to play Cron against lefties and make him a full platoon with Naylor. It just doesn't make sense on paper nor does it make sense for the player...

Hence the square peg round hole comment on the other thread.

And again - to be CLEAR my literal friend... They wouldn't all play at the same time. Whichever one wasn't playing that day (likely Cron most days) would be the bat off the bench.

Adding a bench bat was my point and I used Cron as an example, I also mentioned other names... But go ahead and misconstrue, misunderstand etc. all you want with your obstinance, cognitive dissonance - whatever.

 

[Gson]

Actually it's that TimFrith guy who has me beat lol Actually people are still posting Bieber deals and some even said whatever Antonetti said doesnt matter, since Cleveland is going to trade Bieber. Bieber isn't going anywhere for 23...

Also I'm looking at these names, Luzardo or Lopez makes sense, Marquez makes sense, CJ Cron, Cleveland has no interest in anymore since we have Bell. Why would we even entertain that idea?

If OGonz goes anywhere @CDAV45 and others... It will be for a guy like Reynolds, they aren't trading him for an SP... None of the main 12 (in my mind) outside or Rosario is really available so B. Naylor, Zunino, Bell, J. Naylor, Gimenez, JRam, Arias, Kwan, Straw, OGonz, Brennan... Those guys are going to get most of the ABs in 23...

smh.. what antonetti said DOESN'T F'ING MATTER.. it's what he's supposed to say.. sheesh.. Steve Adams, formerly with the Astros repeated that comment.. he's saying what he's supposed to.. it's how the game is played..

If you and or anyone else feel compelled to repeat that same GM-Speak statement under the false belief that it's etched in stone.. keep playing the fool..

 

[KluberSociety]

Let's use some abstract absolute thinking here, much to the dismay of @Criznit . However I generally find this to be true.

A. Free agents usually go to the highest bidder
B. Teams exercise due diligence in free agents who have value and will generally be willing to bid up to a certain valuation
C. Valuations, especially of low-mid tier FAs are heavily dependent on how much use a team will have for a player (e.g. if there is a hole to plug)

It is highly likely that Cleveland will check in on many players who don't fit a dire need, and then will be outbid by teams who do have said dire need, and then they will not acquire those players.

See: Cron, Brantley

No matter how much we might want to entertain the idea of acquiring them, we're not going to compete with full-time offers with our part-time bids.

 

[Criznit]

Let's use some abstract absolute thinking here, much to the dismay of @Criznit . However I generally find this to be true.

A. Free agents usually go to the highest bidder
B. Teams exercise due diligence in free agents who have value and will generally be willing to bid up to a certain valuation
C. Valuations, especially of low-mid tier FAs are heavily dependent on how much use a team will have for a player (e.g. if there is a hole to plug)

It is highly likely that Cleveland will check in on many players who don't fit a dire need, and then will be outbid by teams who do have said dire need, and then they will not acquire those players.

See: Cron, Brantley

No matter how much we might want to entertain the idea of acquiring them, we're not going to compete with full-time offers with our part-time bids.

It's just FUCKING annoying when you make it clear what you think his role would/could be while also expressing it is anything but an ideal fit.. And it's just ignored or skipped over...

Where does he play? When does he play? - all covered in previous posts.

Sorry I mentioned we could potentially add a slugger to the bench mix.. Sorry I suggested the possibility of trading for German Marquez and CJ Cron...

Cron is not a FA and Colorado probably likes him as a deadline sale anyway, adding him to a German Marquez deal does appeal to me on some level and I am certainly not sorry about that.

 

[sportscoach]

Hence the square peg round hole comment on the other thread.

And again - to be CLEAR my literal friend... They wouldn't all play at the same time. Whichever one wasn't playing that day (likely Cron most days) would be the bat off the bench.

Adding a bench bat was my point and I used Cron as an example, I also mentioned other names... But go ahead and misconstrue, misunderstand etc. all you want with your obstinance, cognitive dissonance - whatever.

A bench bat is fine, but we will need someone who can play more than one position to really have the bench bat make sense...

I mean at the moment on paper...

Kwan is going to get majority of the ABs in LF, OGonz has most of the ABs in RF, Straw and Brennan have pretty much the rest of the ABs in the OF... There isn't any ABs here...

When it comes to the INF... 2B is mostly Gimenez, SS is Rosario, 3B is JRam with Arias essentially eating the rest of the ABs for those three spots. Then 1B will be between Naylor and Bell... DH will most be between Naylor and Bell as well with guys getting random DH days.

C will be almost 100% split between Zunino and Naylor...

So where is the ABs to merit acquiring a bench bat? I mean I don't think there is even 250 ABs available at the end of the day and Francona usually has either a veteran, who is almost an extra coach to pinch hit or a defensive first player at the end of the bench. Unless somehow you see more ABs available?

 

[sportscoach]

smh.. what antonetti said DOESN'T F'ING MATTER.. it's what he's supposed to say.. sheesh.. Steve Adams, formerly with the Astros repeated that comment.. he's saying what he's supposed to.. it's how the game is played..

If you and or anyone else feel compelled to repeat that same GM-Speak statement under the false belief that it's etched in stone.. keep playing the fool..

If Antonetti says they aren't going to trade a player, they don't do it... He rarely ever says anything like that since majority of his words are political speech lol

 

[Criznit]

A bench bat is fine, but we will need someone who can play more than one position to really have the bench bat make sense...

I mean at the moment on paper...

Kwan is going to get majority of the ABs in LF, OGonz has most of the ABs in RF, Straw and Brennan have pretty much the rest of the ABs in the OF... There isn't any ABs here...

When it comes to the INF... 2B is mostly Gimenez, SS is Rosario, 3B is JRam with Arias essentially eating the rest of the ABs for those three spots. Then 1B will be between Naylor and Bell... DH will most be between Naylor and Bell as well with guys getting random DH days.

C will be almost 100% split between Zunino and Naylor...

So where is the ABs to merit acquiring a bench bat? I mean I don't think there is even 250 ABs available at the end of the day and Francona usually has either a veteran, who is almost an extra coach to pinch hit or a defensive first player at the end of the bench. Unless somehow you see more ABs available?

Naylor's career against lefties:

.209

.280

.285

.565

There will certainly be days as Naylor comes to bat, a lefty comes in from the pen.. CJ Cron or other RH slugger - come on down.

Naylor is becoming a platoon bat unfortunately, but he's got some time. Myles Straw tends to suck at the plate, Bo Naylor (another lefty) is unproven.

There will be a lot of ABs to go around here and there and late in close games. I like Brennan and Arias off the bench quite a bit, but having a proven slugger (bat first, glove? they have one) as well to take the few but very meaningful at bats makes some sense to me.

 

[CDAV45]

Actually it's that TimFrith guy who has me beat lol Actually people are still posting Bieber deals and some even said whatever Antonetti said doesnt matter, since Cleveland is going to trade Bieber. Bieber isn't going anywhere for 23...

Also I'm looking at these names, Luzardo or Lopez makes sense, Marquez makes sense, CJ Cron, Cleveland has no interest in anymore since we have Bell. Why would we even entertain that idea?

If OGonz goes anywhere @CDAV45 and others... It will be for a guy like Reynolds, they aren't trading him for an SP... None of the main 12 (in my mind) outside or Rosario is really available so B. Naylor, Zunino, Bell, J. Naylor, Gimenez, JRam, Arias, Kwan, Straw, OGonz, Brennan... Those guys are going to get most of the ABs in 23...

Would you calm down. It’s a conversation piece and you don’t know if Bieber will be dealt at some point in the 23 season.

I’d replace OGon with Ward every time. It doesn’t have to be Reynolds.

 

[sportscoach]

It's just FUCKING annoying when you make it clear what you think his role would/could be while also expressing it is anything but an ideal fit.. And it's just ignored or skipped over...

Where does he play? When does he play? - all covered in previous posts.

Sorry I mentioned we could potentially add a slugger to the bench mix.. Sorry I suggested the possibility of trading for German Marquez and CJ Cron...

Cron is not a FA and Colorado probably likes him as a deadline sale anyway, adding him to a German Marquez deal does appeal to me on some level and I am certainly not sorry about that.

Naylor's career against lefties:

.209

.280

.285

.565

There will certainly be days as Naylor comes to bat, a lefty comes in from the pen.. CJ Cron or other RH slugger - come on down.

Naylor is becoming a platoon bat unfortunately, but he's got some time. Myles Straw tends to suck at the plate, Bo Naylor (another lefty) is unproven.

There will be a lot of ABs to go around here and there and late in close games. I like Brennan and Arias off the bench quite a bit, but having a proven slugger to take the few but very meaningful at bats makes some sense to me.

There are pages and pages of posts and I have 5 seconds to read while at work so I may have missed some things lol

Either way, there is no legit ABs available to merit going to get a bench bat.

Reason why...

If you don't play Naylor against lefties period, plus To create enough ABs for an additional bench bat, Gimenez would always have to sit against lefties as well...

Kwan, Rosario, JRam, Bell, OGonz, Gimenez, Arias, Zunino, Straw... would be the normal lineup for lefties...

It would take away from Arias' ABs, since his starts would be primarily against lefties, which is also DH days for JRam, Rosario etc... Plus then Gimenez would have to lose ABs against lefties as well and didn't everyone complain about him not facing lefties?

Also a second factor...

We currently have 18 pitchers and 22 positions players, we actually need to figure a way to get more pitchers on the 40 man as well... so we need to find a way to get another pitcher or two eventually, so adding a veteran on a one year contract that can play one position or DH doesn't make a ton of sense...

Now if we wanted to add a bench bat, I would think we would go towards Duvall (since he can play OF and 1B) or Longoria (if he plays some 1B) cause they have leadership as well, or younger guys like Wil Myers or Brandon Drury... Adding a bench guy who can only do 1B/DH wouldn't make sense, so adding a bat that can have some positional flexibility would the likely bet if we go that way.

Aka going with your idea...

Plesac, Palacios, Tena out and a veteran SP in, veteran bullpen in and Duvall as the bench guy. That's something that would make sense to me and fit what you want...