23 Offseason GM Thread

[KluberSociety]

Like Carlos Carrasco?

Cookie isn't really the kinda upgrade over Quantrill that I was looking for but I guess an option. I'm more into bolstering the front of the staff as a bridge to when our big arms hit the majors but the cost might be something that the FO just isn't willing to pay. In that case Cookie would be welcome.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Cookie isn't really the kinda upgrade over Quantrill that I was looking for but I guess an option. I'm more into bolstering the front of the staff as a bridge to when our big arms hit the majors but the cost might be something that the FO just isn't willing to pay. In that case Cookie would be welcome.

I don't get why people are so down on Quantrill and so quick to send him out. Are people really that influenced by one bad start in the playoffs?

I'll take Quantrill over Cookie, if for nothing other than being more reliable at this point. I also wouldn't trade him for Jansen straight up, let alone adding more to the deal from our side.

 

[sportscoach]

I don't get why people are so down on Quantrill and so quick to send him out. Are people really that influenced by one bad start in the playoffs?

I'll take Quantrill over Cookie, if for nothing other than being more reliable at this point. I also wouldn't trade him for Jansen straight up, let alone adding more to the deal from our side.

I don't understand why anyone is really putting Quantrill in a deal for anyone... He has been one of the best pitchers the last two seasons in the Aug and Sept/Oct, while eating innings and staying healthy.

Plesac, we know why is available and for the right deal I can merit Civale since he hasn't stayed healthy, but moving Quantrill in 23, makes absolutely no sense to me...

 

[sportscoach]

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@Gson @CDAV45 @petes999

Cleveland gets
SP Carrasco
C McCann
SP Tidwell
SP Allan (if medicals check out, if not one of there other non Rule 5 prospects)

NY gets
SP Plesac
2B/LF Palacios

Strange idea, but Gson said something like it the other day. They have 5 SP pitchers who 4 of them are older and have more money in them than Cleveland does in their entire roster. This move would save the Mets owner probably 30+ million dollars...

Cleveland gets the veterans SP that can help the young guys develop. McCann is the guy who splits time with Naylor. Not ideal, but Plesac for Carrasco and a prospect does make a ton of sense to me...

 

[daddywags]

Carrasco had a good year but he's an expensive rental at this point. Quantrill is under arby control for 3 more years. He's penciled in as our #3 unless something strange happens. Plesac, OTOH, likely has to win a spot in the rotation. I don't think it's a given that he beats Morris out for the 5th spot. The spot I would like to improve is 4th, i.e., Civale. I like him when healthy as a regular season #4-5 guy, but he can't be our 4th starter in a 7 game playoff series IMO.

 

[Gson]

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@Gson @CDAV45 @petes999

Cleveland gets
SP Carrasco
C McCann
SP Tidwell
SP Allan (if medicals check out, if not one of there other non Rule 5 prospects)

NY gets
SP Plesac
2B/LF Palacios

Strange idea, but Gson said something like it the other day. They have 5 SP pitchers who 4 of them are older and have more money in them than Cleveland does in their entire roster. This move would save the Mets owner probably 30+ million dollars...

Cleveland gets the veterans SP that can help the young guys develop. McCann is the guy who splits time with Naylor. Not ideal, but Plesac for Carrasco and a prospect does make a ton of sense to me...

The concept for the deal is as you've presented.. McCann and Carrasco's direct money coming off the Mets payroll ($ 26 MM) and nearly doubling it as the Luxury Tax threshold is salary plus 90 cents on the dollar. Both teams benefit.. The only question becomes.. which Mets prospect(s) are used as the buy down.. Your example, Matt Alan & Blade Tidwell are fine.. The first posting had Francisco Alvarez (which was a poor choice by me).. there are others that will work..

 

[macbdog]

I don't get why people are so down on Quantrill and so quick to send him out. Are people really that influenced by one bad start in the playoffs?

I'll take Quantrill over Cookie, if for nothing other than being more reliable at this point. I also wouldn't trade him for Jansen straight up, let alone adding more to the deal from our side.

Civale couldnt even make it through one inning and the same folks are writing him in for the 4th slot.

 

[DerekG123]

The rotation we need is Bieber, Tmac, addition, Quantrill, Civale with Morris as long man/spot starter. Jansen is cool, but he is so injury prone that I wouldnt move a starter for him. Trade prospects plus flip Plesac/Rosario to make it happen for that reliable 2/3 starter.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Civale couldnt even make it through one inning and the same folks are writing him in for the 4th slot.

Overreacting to one playoff start instead of their entire body of work is asinine.

I have no problem dealing from Civale/Plesac, especially if we acquire a quality major league starter.

 

[sportscoach]

Carrasco had a good year but he's an expensive rental at this point. Quantrill is under arby control for 3 more years. He's penciled in as our #3 unless something strange happens. Plesac, OTOH, likely has to win a spot in the rotation. I don't think it's a given that he beats Morris out for the 5th spot. The spot I would like to improve is 4th, i.e., Civale. I like him when healthy as a regular season #4-5 guy, but he can't be our 4th starter in a 7 game playoff series IMO.

Well I am just looking at the Mets can deal with Plesac and we get a short term guy plus a long term SP prospect or another prospect we like, to keep our farm stocked...

I'm also looking at we are a really young roster, adding a good character veteran to mix in, I feel like will help this roster at the end of the day.

 

[KluberSociety]

I don't get why people are so down on Quantrill and so quick to send him out. Are people really that influenced by one bad start in the playoffs?

I'll take Quantrill over Cookie, if for nothing other than being more reliable at this point. I also wouldn't trade him for Jansen straight up, let alone adding more to the deal from our side.

I said nothing about sending him out. I just don't want him in the top 3 of a playoff rotation. Any talk of replacing him means exactly that. He's great as a #4/#5 innings eater that keeps the rest of the team fresh, particularly the bullpen who is going to be needed with all the young arms that are bound to get called up.

And it has nothing to do with "one bad start in the playoffs". It has to do with that he's had what I believe to be unsustainable results so far and I'd rather make the move before rather than after he falls back to reality.

When you compare Cleveland to other likely playoff teams, in all areas, yeah okay the offense might be kind of weak but one or two upgrades isn't really going to change it in a significant way. But how many of them are throwing Quantrill-level starters up there as their #3? I want to contend in 2023 and this IMO is the biggest hole to fill. Hell, I'm not even saying what the playoff rotation will look like. But between Carrasco, Quantrill, and Civale, and even potential call-ups or Plesac, maybe someone will stand out. Cookie just adds one more name to the list and his numbers were pretty good last year.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I said nothing about sending him out. I just don't want him in the top 3 of a playoff rotation. Any talk of replacing him means exactly that. He's great as a #4/#5 innings eater that keeps the rest of the team fresh, particularly the bullpen who is going to be needed with all the young arms that are bound to get called up.

And it has nothing to do with "one bad start in the playoffs". It has to do with that he's had what I believe to be unsustainable results so far and I'd rather make the move before rather than after he falls back to reality.

When you compare Cleveland to other likely playoff teams, in all areas, yeah okay the offense might be kind of weak but one or two upgrades isn't really going to change it in a significant way. But how many of them are throwing Quantrill-level starters up there as their #3? I want to contend in 2023 and this IMO is the biggest hole to fill. Hell, I'm not even saying what the playoff rotation will look like. But between Carrasco, Quantrill, and Civale, and even potential call-ups or Plesac, maybe someone will stand out. Cookie just adds one more name to the list and his numbers were pretty good last year.

I was agreeing with you and adding on. I wasn't accusing you of saying things you did not.

If we could get a FOR arm like Woodruff and push Quantrill back to the fourth spot, that sounds awesome.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

And @KluberSociety there's no straw man. Quantrill plus more for Jansen has been brought up multiple times.

I think it's always been @CDAV45 but I don't really keep track of who said what.

 

[KluberSociety]

Sorry I deleted that last post after reading your first response.

Just curious, what do you think Quantrill's regular season ERA will be next year? I'd guess about 4. Over the last 2 seasons he's somehow managed 3.16. I think he could moderately outperform what estimators say he should've done but expecting the sort of godly outperformance that he's shown so far just doesn't seem realistic at all. I have looked to try to find some sort of hypothesis for why he'd have some huge natural ability to do this but I haven't really found anything. FWIW Steamer projections say 4.63 and that seems WAY off as well. To me Carrasco is more of a 3.8 guy, an improvement maybe but not a huge one, and my preference is liable to change over the course of the season.

Quantrill is just not what I want to be throwing out there against strong teams in key games for extended innings... the pitch-to-contact approach in particular is very scary.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Sorry I deleted that last post after reading your first response.

Just curious, what do you think Quantrill's regular season ERA will be next year? I'd guess about 4. Over the last 2 seasons he's somehow managed 3.16. I think he could moderately outperform what estimators say he should've done but expecting the sort of godly outperformance that he's shown so far just doesn't seem realistic at all. I have looked to try to find some sort of hypothesis for why he'd have some huge natural ability to do this but I haven't really found anything. FWIW Steamer projections say 4.63 and that seems WAY off as well. To me Carrasco is more of a 3.8 guy, an improvement maybe but not a huge one, and my preference is liable to change over the course of the season.

Quantrill is just not what I want to be throwing out there against strong teams in key games for extended innings... the pitch-to-contact approach in particular is very scary.

I think about 4 is a good estimate. Something between 3.7 and 4.2 feels about right.

If you get an ERA right around there, from a guy who can go every fifth day without being hurt, and take you deep into every one of those starts, that's a very valuable commodity to have on your team.

It would undoubtedly be better to have a third stud at the top of the rotation. I think everyone is in agreement, which is why you heard about the front office going after guys like Rodon and Mahle, and we've speculated about trading for guys like Woodruff.

Quantrill is a valuable piece to the puzzle that is a major league starting rotation, and he's one that I'd be shocked if the Guardians traded away.

Gun to my head, you make me pick who I head into 2023 with, Carrasco or Quantrill, I pick Quantrill because I don't think you're getting a complete, healthy season out of Cookie.