24 Off-Season GM Thread

[CDAV45]

In all seriousness, what will be done(if anything) to address the dreadful offensive production from the OF? Who of Kwan, Straw, Brennan, Laureano and Gonzalez survives? Will they look to get Valera in a some point and if so then for who? Makes one wonder if they'll even protect Rodriguez at this point. I think it would be nice to see Brito get some reps in LF, but the OF is as clogged as the MIF.

I'm just trying to make sense of it because they can't be satisfied with this group as a whole........can they?

 

[sportscoach]

In all seriousness, what will be done(if anything) to address the dreadful offensive production from the OF? Who of Kwan, Straw, Brennan, Laureano and Gonzalez survives? Will they look to get Valera in a some point and if so then for who? Makes one wonder if they'll even protect Rodriguez at this point. I think it would be nice to see Brito get some reps in LF, but the OF is as clogged as the MIF.

I'm just trying to make sense of it because they can't be satisfied with this group as a whole........can they?

My honest guess is this...

I think Kwan stays in LF and Brennan is given CF with Straw and Laureano as bench guys, right now... I think OGonz is sadly Gonzo (though he does have one more option) and I think they will look to protect J Rodriquez (since his AA/AAA numbers were just a bit too good for a team like an Oakland not to at least take a chance on).

My money would be on...

Cleveland trying to find a RH OF from outside the organization at the start of the offseason... They could even go after a bat (Aka Westburg in a sense) that could be moved to an OF spot...

I think they will listen to offers on pretty much everyone (outside of Gimenez, Naylor Bros etc), but I am doubting anyone would pay the price on Kwan, Brennan and Straw... (Kwan to me is getting extended).

2-3 of Valera, OGonz, Freeman, Rocchio, A. Martinez, Tena, will be gone to start 24... I don't see Pries, Lavastida etc getting added... J Rodriquez likely will be taken in the Rule 5 by a desperate team, so I think he gets added...

Then if we don't make a trade, we keep Laureano, if we do, I think he gets non-tendered/traded...

I am personally hoping, we find a way to get a middle of the order bat to sit behind JRam and Naylor and I think the FO will try to trade for one...

I wouldn't even be surprised if we use a three way trade to do it... Aka Valera for SP Prospect, SP prospect for RH bat type of thing...

 

[CDAV45]

My honest guess is this...

I think Kwan stays in LF and Brennan is given CF with Straw and Laureano as bench guys, right now... I think OGonz is sadly Gonzo (though he does have one more option) and I think they will look to protect J Rodriquez (since his AA/AAA numbers were just a bit too good for a team like an Oakland not to at least take a chance on).

My money would be on...

Cleveland trying to find a RH OF from outside the organization at the start of the offseason... They could even go after a bat (Aka Westburg in a sense) that could be moved to an OF spot...

I think they will listen to offers on pretty much everyone (outside of Gimenez, Naylor Bros etc), but I am doubting anyone would pay the price on Kwan, Brennan and Straw... (Kwan to me is getting extended).

2-3 of Valera, OGonz, Freeman, Rocchio, A. Martinez, Tena, will be gone to start 24... I don't see Pries, Lavastida etc getting added... J Rodriquez likely will be taken in the Rule 5 by a desperate team, so I think he gets added...

Then if we don't make a trade, we keep Laureano, if we do, I think he gets non-tendered/traded...

I am personally hoping, we find a way to get a middle of the order bat to sit behind JRam and Naylor and I think the FO will try to trade for one...

I wouldn't even be surprised if we use a three way trade to do it... Aka Valera for SP Prospect, SP prospect for RH bat type of thing...

I don't believe they'll have Kwan in LF, Brennan in CF and hang onto both Straw and Laureano. That's just too much if they add a RH bat like you suggest. Also, it makes no sense to roster Rodriguez and trade for a RHH OFer.

I don't know about Lavastida. He's looking pretty good right now so he could earn his way back. I don't know how they intend to use Fry and Haase is controlled for a couple more years.

I may have been the first to mention Westburg, but I'm not sure he's a fit any longer. Especially at what is likely his peak value. Who does he replace, Brennan?

They should probably look to deal from the OF and IF depth this offseason. With all of Valera, DeLauter, Martinez, Brito and a couple of others on the rise it's going to get even more crowded soon.

Whatever happens with the position player ranks I'd definitely look to add at least one good arm to the SP depth. I don't know if they'll deal either of Bieber or Quantrill this offseason, but they probably should.

 

[sportscoach]

I don't believe they'll have Kwan in LF, Brennan in CF and hang onto both Straw and Laureano. That's just too much if they add a RH bat like you suggest. Also, it makes no sense to roster Rodriguez and trade for a RHH OFer.

I don't know about Lavastida. He's looking pretty good right now so he could earn his way back. I don't know how they intend to use Fry and Haase is controlled for a couple more years.

I may have been the first to mention Westburg, but I'm not sure he's a fit any longer. Especially at what is likely his peak value. Who does he replace, Brennan?

They should probably look to deal from the OF and IF depth this offseason. With all of Valera, DeLauter, Martinez, Brito and a couple of others on the rise it's going to get even more crowded soon.

Whatever happens with the position player ranks I'd definitely look to add at least one good arm to the SP depth. I don't know if they'll deal either of Bieber or Quantrill this offseason, but they probably should.

You got to understand, it's an extremely high probability Kwan and Brennan are staring in the OF in 24... I don't get how you don't see that. Straw and Laureano will be both kept IF we don't get a RH OF for RF... I said that earlier...

Plus it's rare a proven MLB bat is traded before the 40 man roster set deadline for the rule 5 draft... So keeping all those guys, makes sense in Nov... Plus you don't know if you will get that RH OF so you have to prepare your roster accordingly Plus always need depth as well... You cannot make it through the marathon without depth and J Rodriquez would be that depth piece/insurance policy in case we cannot make a deal...

Ps. It's extremely unlikely Cleveland gets much for Bieber nor Quantrill... so don't be surprised if Quantrill ends up in the pen...

 

[CDAV45]

You got to understand, it's an extremely high probability Kwan and Brennan are staring in the OF in 24... I don't get how you don't see that. Straw and Laureano will be both kept IF we don't get a RH OF for RF... I said that earlier...

Plus it's rare a proven MLB bat is traded before the 40 man roster set deadline for the rule 5 draft... So keeping all those guys, makes sense in Nov... Plus you don't know if you will get that RH OF so you have to prepare your roster accordingly Plus always need depth as well... You cannot make it through the marathon without depth and J Rodriquez would be that depth piece/insurance policy in case we cannot make a deal...

Ps. It's extremely unlikely Cleveland gets much for Bieber nor Quantrill... so don't be surprised if Quantrill ends up in the pen...

Who are you to tell me "you got to understand". This conversation is about the issues of this team and lack of offensive production. "You've got to understand" that the Guardian's OF is the least productive in MLB. "I don't get how you don't see that" and then you go on to suggest they're going to repeat the same fucking mess. We're having 2 very different conversations here. You're trying to appear as some sort of "all knowing", enlightened baseball mind and I'm trying to discuss how they can be more productive.

This is simple, if they want the same results then they'll leave things as they are. You do realize that of the 5 OFers(Kwan, Straw, Brennan, Laureano and Calhoun) the highest OPS is Kwan's at 715. Seven fucking fifteen.

I seriously doubt they put Quantrill in the pen. He'll either be in the rotation or he'll be gone. If Bieber looks healthy and has a good outing or 2 before the season ends then somebody could come calling for his services. Especially if someone like Freeman or Brennan is in the deal too.

 

[petes999]

For those thinking there will be a major shake-up, that is what we have been proposing for at least the last 2-3 offseasons, waiting and waiting. In all honesty, the main questions are outfield and back-up catcher. Thus, we can propose all these trades but I doubt we get any until ST - doing a wait and see.

I think they will do most of their looking internally. In particular, I would like to see Arias and Rocchio battle it out for SS. For LF, I wouldn't be opposed to Freeman trying to bump Kwan to CF. As a back-up plan, I would also try to start moving Angel Martinez to CF as Bimbo suggested over a year ago. He has 55 Speed per FG. If both fail, you got Halpin in AAA next year and DeLauter not far behind. This isn't the sky is falling scenario. The key is to start to look at these youngsters and get consistent ABs so we don't trade another Jones/Benson thinking we had another solution.

Yes, we maybe able to trade a Bieber or Quantrill and help fill the need, but no one is going to trade full value for a Bieber until they see him in ST healthy. I doubt they will have Bieber start in MLB without another start in Akron on Sunday (get up to 70 pitches) at the earlierst being Sunday, 17th. Then if they call him up, he may get 2 mlb starts on 23rd and 29th (assuming every 6 days). Would you trade an arm and a bat for a guy with just 2 MLB starts??? I would at least want to see a few ST games to make sure he is healthy with 1 year left on contract (and still time to retain the tender qualifying offer status on new team).

As for RHB, a decision needs to be made on Oscar, Rodriquez, Lauerano, Noel and Fry as the possible RHB -- enough to solve the problem that they could have just saved Call for. I left off Calhoun as I assume that ship has sailed. Sorry, at this point, I am not sold on any of them. And, if Rocchio can take the SS position, Arias goes in as an extra bat off the bench. Yet, these guys are a dime a dozen and something that will not fill Tribe FO time this offseason fixing.

For regular RF, you got Valera who is hot as hell. Brennan is just getting to 500 ABs. He still has some hope especially vs RHP if he can learn to stay patient. I will take .300 BA guy if they can draw a few walks. Arias, if he doesn't make it at SS, is always an option. Noel is also heating up as one of the younger AAA guys.

 

[Gson]

For those thinking there will be a major shake-up, that is what we have been proposing for at least the last 2-3 offseasons, waiting and waiting. In all honesty, the main questions are outfield and back-up catcher. Thus, we can propose all these trades but I doubt we get any until ST - doing a wait and see.

I think they will do most of their looking internally. In particular, I would like to see Arias and Rocchio battle it out for SS. For LF, I wouldn't be opposed to Freeman trying to bump Kwan to CF. As a back-up plan, I would also try to start moving Angel Martinez to CF as Bimbo suggested over a year ago. He has 55 Speed per FG. If both fail, you got Halpin in AAA next year and DeLauter not far behind. This isn't the sky is falling scenario. The key is to start to look at these youngsters and get consistent ABs so we don't trade another Jones/Benson thinking we had another solution.

Yes, we maybe able to trade a Bieber or Quantrill and help fill the need, but no one is going to trade full value for a Bieber until they see him in ST healthy. I doubt they will have Bieber start in MLB without another start in Akron on Sunday (get up to 70 pitches) at the earlierst being Sunday, 17th. Then if they call him up, he may get 2 mlb starts on 23rd and 29th (assuming every 6 days). Would you trade an arm and a bat for a guy with just 2 MLB starts??? I would at least want to see a few ST games to make sure he is healthy with 1 year left on contract (and still time to retain the tender qualifying offer status on new team).

As for RHB, a decision needs to be made on Oscar, Rodriquez, Lauerano, Noel and Fry as the possible RHB -- enough to solve the problem that they could have just saved Call for. I left off Calhoun as I assume that ship has sailed. Sorry, at this point, I am not sold on any of them. And, if Rocchio can take the SS position, Arias goes in as an extra bat off the bench. Yet, these guys are a dime a dozen and something that will not fill Tribe FO time this offseason fixing.

For regular RF, you got Valera who is hot as hell. Brennan is just getting to 500 ABs. He still has some hope especially vs RHP if he can learn to stay patient. I will take .300 BA guy if they can draw a few walks. Arias, if he doesn't make it at SS, is always an option. Noel is also heating up as one of the younger AAA guys.

Quite a bit to unpack in this posting..

Points of agreement: Outfield and back up catcher.. I'd go a little further in saying an Outfielder that can mash LHP's and a catcher who would be more than "just a back up".. With the second catcher, the team would not see an overall drop off in production (defense + offense)..

Internal looks/candidates: could permit a guy who hasn't been able to exhibit his abilities to shine.. or would be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.. Could be a little of both.. Freeman as an OF'er.. is a maybe to maybe a pretty good idea..if, for no other reason than his bat is in the lineup.. Angel as an OF'er.. more versatility as an OF'er wouldn't hurt..but it's his bat that will define his future.. IOW, if Angel can hit, he can play someplace between the white lines.. Halpin and DeLauter are clearly in the next wave..

Fear of making a bad deal (Benson/NoJo): It's going to happen.. The best advice and best stats and best of the best front office/scouting/player personnel said.. make these deals.. it's going to happen again.. just try to keep the affirmative deals ahead of the abjectly poor ones..

Internal RHB's: Baseball has a top of an inning and a bottom of an inning.. both sides of the inning needs to be filled with talented professional players. Spongebob isn't, John-Rod isn't, Laureano is, Noel isn't and Fry isn't. These are the best the Guardians currently have.. A better guy or better guys are needed.. Valera might be that guy..

Rocchio v Arias: Rocchio is going to be better.. but I don't know that he is right now.. Arias has to improve to keep his spot.. There is a saying/belief: Getting to the major leagues is one of the toughest things to do in sports.. Staying in the major leagues is the toughest.. No one is guaranteed that spot..

Trading Bieber/Quantrill: Quantrill proved in 2022 that when healthy, he approaches being a TOR SP.. In three return starts he is sporting a 1.50 ERA while going 6 innings each start.. and he's just getting warmed up.. He has to be considered a top three of the Guardians staff.. and someone that should not be traded unless completely overpaid.. Bieber on the other hand is just coming back which may allow him to show he is still able to be a tremendous starting pitcher.. If that is shown in the two or so starts he might get before the season ends, then, he might be a trade candidate this winter.. Again.. with the way CleFO values guys.. Bieber's may be a bit lower than he has been.. but clearly in the same line (or better) of thought as the Kluber/Clase deal..

Note: It could be FOS, but if Bieber is retained.. Quantrill is retained.. but an SP is traded.. you've all seen which guy I'd put on the block.. btw.. he's gone from a first half of the year ERA at under 3.5 to a second half ERA more than a run higher..

BTW.. The Cardinals/Giants/Dodgers remain as teams that match up well with what the Guardians need and what they can offer..

 

[petes999]

Note: It could be FOS, but if Bieber is retained.. Quantrill is retained.. but an SP is traded.. you've all seen which guy I'd put on the block.. btw.. he's gone from a first half of the year ERA at under 3.5 to a second half ERA more than a run higher..

BTW.. The Cardinals/Giants/Dodgers remain as teams that match up well with what the Guardians need and what they can offer..

Sorry not been following the boards too much lately (been busy as a chauffeur). Yet, I assume you mean Curry. I agree he should be the first to go but has no real value on trade market (partly for what you are saying). I think he is being lined up as a flex guy next year ... whether a starter or reliever but hanging out in AAA (as they kept his 2nd option over keeping a Karinchak or Herrin up who already burned theirs for this year).

I think Bieber will build back up his trade value, but to do it in 2 starts for what we will want and expect (more than a Kluber) is difficult in such a short time before season's end. Just why I am saying ST type time frame so scouts can get a few more eyes on him where he isn't injured and trying to stay up by changing mechanics like this year.

Internal RHB's: Baseball has a top of an inning and a bottom of an inning.. both sides of the inning needs to be filled with talented professional players. Spongebob isn't, John-Rod isn't, Laureano is, Noel isn't and Fry isn't. These are the best the Guardians currently have.. A better guy or better guys are needed.. Valera might be that guy..

I wouldn't be shocked if Brennan and Straw are both on the bench with Arias - that is if we can get OF of Freeman/Kwan/Valera or Kwan/Martinez/Valera. I think Laureano is a bit overrated. Yes, he is a right handed bat and possibly the best combo of both sides of the inning as you are focusing on. Yet, he was passed over by 20 or so teams while on waivers for a decent price. He has a 0.2 oWar in 100 ABs for Guardians. Straw is still a 0.9 WAR in 400 ABs on BR for Guardians (mainly due to glove) - compared to 1.2 for Laureano for season and 0.8 for Brennan. Just saying, not one of Brennan, Straw, Laureano really stands out - head and shoulders -- above rest. So who do they keep? Probably all 3 for now. But, Brennan has more potential upside being younger one (just getting to 500 ABs) and Straw has more of the defense that can be the 4th/5th OF if you ever bring up a guy like Noel (where you need a replacement). Noel of all the RHBs is the one I am watching especially if you can hide him in a DH/RF maybe even 1B role (in case of injuries) with Naylor, Manzardo and Valera as your lefty hitters.

 

[Gson]

The pitcher I was referring to was Logan T Allen.. Not Curry.. Trading Curry wouldn't be a huge deal.. he's more of an afterthought.. Allen has a chance to be a huge / important deal....

 

[CDAV45]

Quite a bit to unpack in this posting..

Points of agreement: Outfield and back up catcher.. I'd go a little further in saying an Outfielder that can mash LHP's and a catcher who would be more than "just a back up".. With the second catcher, the team would not see an overall drop off in production (defense + offense)..

Internal looks/candidates: could permit a guy who hasn't been able to exhibit his abilities to shine.. or would be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.. Could be a little of both.. Freeman as an OF'er.. is a maybe to maybe a pretty good idea..if, for no other reason than his bat is in the lineup.. Angel as an OF'er.. more versatility as an OF'er wouldn't hurt..but it's his bat that will define his future.. IOW, if Angel can hit, he can play someplace between the white lines.. Halpin and DeLauter are clearly in the next wave..

Fear of making a bad deal (Benson/NoJo): It's going to happen.. The best advice and best stats and best of the best front office/scouting/player personnel said.. make these deals.. it's going to happen again.. just try to keep the affirmative deals ahead of the abjectly poor ones..

Internal RHB's: Baseball has a top of an inning and a bottom of an inning.. both sides of the inning needs to be filled with talented professional players. Spongebob isn't, John-Rod isn't, Laureano is, Noel isn't and Fry isn't. These are the best the Guardians currently have.. A better guy or better guys are needed.. Valera might be that guy..

Rocchio v Arias: Rocchio is going to be better.. but I don't know that he is right now.. Arias has to improve to keep his spot.. There is a saying/belief: Getting to the major leagues is one of the toughest things to do in sports.. Staying in the major leagues is the toughest.. No one is guaranteed that spot..

Trading Bieber/Quantrill: Quantrill proved in 2022 that when healthy, he approaches being a TOR SP.. In three return starts he is sporting a 1.50 ERA while going 6 innings each start.. and he's just getting warmed up.. He has to be considered a top three of the Guardians staff.. and someone that should not be traded unless completely overpaid.. Bieber on the other hand is just coming back which may allow him to show he is still able to be a tremendous starting pitcher.. If that is shown in the two or so starts he might get before the season ends, then, he might be a trade candidate this winter.. Again.. with the way CleFO values guys.. Bieber's may be a bit lower than he has been.. but clearly in the same line (or better) of thought as the Kluber/Clase deal..

Note: It could be FOS, but if Bieber is retained.. Quantrill is retained.. but an SP is traded.. you've all seen which guy I'd put on the block.. btw.. he's gone from a first half of the year ERA at under 3.5 to a second half ERA more than a run higher..

BTW.. The Cardinals/Giants/Dodgers remain as teams that match up well with what the Guardians need and what they can offer..

I know you're very interested in finding a C to share the duties with Bo, but I have a question. If the backup C handles the staff well and posted an OPS+ in the 103 to 112 range would that be acceptable to you? If Bo is going to be the "main guy" then the backup will probably need to be an established veteran as opposed to an inexperienced player. Would you agree with that? If you do then our other C is already in Columbus.

You know what they say about opinions and the one I have toward Freeman in the OF isn't favorable. I suspect/hope Freeman can best help this ballclub in a trade.

How do you know that Rodriguez isn't a talented professional player? He's a talented minor league player, but I have no idea if his talent will/could transfer successfully. If they don't trade for an established player or a more promising one then they might want to get a look at Rodriguez. I was hoping to do that this month, but admittedly that wouldn't exactly prove much.

I'll go ahead and say that I don't know if Rocchio is going to be better than Arias. My opinion is that Rocchio will be nowhere near Arias when the dust settles, but that holds no more weight than your opposing opinion. I think we can both probably agree that we're going to find out by the middle of next season or sooner.

Clearly, Bieber doesn't possess the value he had last offseason. Especially after missing significant time this season, but I think it's likely that a couple of teams will still have interest if he demonstrates he's healthy yet this season. So far so good, but we need to see him pitch ML innings and we will.

I've always thought Quantrill was undervalued because of his peripherals. He's a pitch to contact pitcher that uses his defense effectively and goes deep in the games he takes the mound. He's got a couple of years of control remaining and he's looking very good upon his return. I think someone like the Cardinals would be very interested in Cal, but I might be mistaken.

I'm not opposed to dealing Allen, but the return will have to clearly help this team in 2024 and beyond. A package of Allen, Freeman and Valera could be very intriguing to several teams. Theoretically of course.

 

[Gson]

I know you're very interested in finding a C to share the duties with Bo, but I have a question. If the backup C handles the staff well and posted an OPS+ in the 103 to 112 range would that be acceptable to you? If Bo is going to be the "main guy" then the backup will probably need to be an established veteran as opposed to an inexperienced player. Would you agree with that? If you do then our other C is already in Columbus.

You know what they say about opinions and the one I have toward Freeman in the OF isn't favorable. I suspect/hope Freeman can best help this ballclub in a trade.

How do you know that Rodriguez isn't a talented professional player? He's a talented minor league player, but I have no idea if his talent will/could transfer successfully. If they don't trade for an established player or a more promising one then they might want to get a look at Rodriguez. I was hoping to do that this month, but admittedly that wouldn't exactly prove much.

I'll go ahead and say that I don't know if Rocchio is going to be better than Arias. My opinion is that Rocchio will be nowhere near Arias when the dust settles, but that holds no more weight than your opposing opinion. I think we can both probably agree that we're going to find out by the middle of next season or sooner.

Clearly, Bieber doesn't possess the value he had last offseason. Especially after missing significant time this season, but I think it's likely that a couple of teams will still have interest if he demonstrates he's healthy yet this season. So far so good, but we need to see him pitch ML innings and we will.

I've always thought Quantrill was undervalued because of his peripherals. He's a pitch to contact pitcher that uses his defense effectively and goes deep in the games he takes the mound. He's got a couple of years of control remaining and he's looking very good upon his return. I think someone like the Cardinals would be very interested in Cal, but I might be mistaken.

I'm not opposed to dealing Allen, but the return will have to clearly help this team in 2024 and beyond. A package of Allen, Freeman and Valera could be very intriguing to several teams. Theoretically of course.

Let's unpack a little of this response.. overall.. most of it is agreeable..

Bo as the primary.. is a "probably".. Being the strong side of the platoon, he should see most righties from the batting side of the equation.. however, his ability to mesh with the starting staff will superceed that reality. In other words.. if Bo handles McStix / Quan / Big Rig the best of the catchers, then he starts three of five starters.. The priority is the leadership of the pitching staff from behind the dish.. W/R to the 103 - 112 OPS+ catcher.. good for me.. but his initials are NOT B.L. If you think they are.. you're mistaken.. again..

Freeman as an OF is a WIP.. no disagreement.. There are others who would begin their ML careers who are better than him defensively.. but, very few with the lumber.. Freeman is a virtual savant with ash and maple.. imho.. He's been either the best or about the best hitter at every stop along his journey to the ML's.. He doesn't have the "it" factor.. which makes his path more difficult.. So, it's going to be difficult. I just hope he isn't sent along with a lesser prospect/player as a throw in.. it would be a HUGE mistake..

John-Rod... what makes me think he doesn't.. He hits mistakes.. hard.. He misses good pitches that he should handle.. His pitch recognitions ability is suspect, imho.. He swings and misses waaaaaay too much for mine or anyone's liking. He gets a fair number of walks.. again, with pitching that doesn't have the kind of control and command he'll see at the highest level of baseball.. Defensively, he's only marginal in the OF due primarily to his lack of speed [being no better than mediocre..] In short, he's swings hard & when he makes contact w/ minor league pitching.. the ball travels a long way.. History has shown these kinds of poor hit tool guys don't fare well at the ML level or they take a LONG frustrating time to find their sweet spot.. History aside.. what I've seen says.. don't expect much.. and I don't as indicated in my earlier comment..

Bieber's value dropped primarily due to the additional injury and reduced club control. Put a 5 year contract on the table while seeing he's healthy to end the 2023 season and start the 2024 season.. and his value will return.. It would not be a budget breaker.. or perhaps not to elite dollar levels/values.. His value will clearly be better than it is now by A LOT !!..

Peripherals for Quantrill blow.. A smart team sees through him not being an analytical darling.. like Cleveland.. btw.. St Louis is one of the smarter teams when it comes to pitchers..

Allen gives me that SP5/AAAA tweener vibe.. not always though as he's had some truly amazing outings in his short ML career.... My "spidey" sense says his value is about as high as it's going to be.. and that's not bad.. but if I were going to send one established major league starter from the Guardians away between now and the start of spring training, he'd be the guy..

As far as helping now.. sure.. I'd prefer that.. I absolutely don't want a 17 year who grew up around baseball because his daddy played MLB & he has had and is able to exploit all the advantages.. ( I want that kid when he turns 20.. ).. At the end of the day.. when it comes to what should be returned.. the phrase: Talent will out.. remains.. Whoever is acquired has to be talented.. it's why Kahlil Watson was acquired.. why Juan Brito was acquired..

Thanks for responding..

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Let's honor Tito in 2024. These are the guys we should trot out there every day.

C: Cam Gallagher
1B: Kole Calhoun
2B: Michael Martinez
3B: Mike Avila
SS: Erik Gonzalez
LF: Rajai Davis
CF: Myles Straw
RF: Brandon Guyer
DH: Mike Napoli

SP: Bryan Shaw

 

[CDAV45]

Let's unpack a little of this response.. overall.. most of it is agreeable..

Bo as the primary.. is a "probably".. Being the strong side of the platoon, he should see most righties from the batting side of the equation.. however, his ability to mesh with the starting staff will superceed that reality. In other words.. if Bo handles McStix / Quan / Big Rig the best of the catchers, then he starts three of five starters.. The priority is the leadership of the pitching staff from behind the dish.. W/R to the 103 - 112 OPS+ catcher.. good for me.. but his initials are NOT B.L. If you think they are.. you're mistaken.. again..

Freeman as an OF is a WIP.. no disagreement.. There are others who would begin their ML careers who are better than him defensively.. but, very few with the lumber.. Freeman is a virtual savant with ash and maple.. imho.. He's been either the best or about the best hitter at every stop along his journey to the ML's.. He doesn't have the "it" factor.. which makes his path more difficult.. So, it's going to be difficult. I just hope he isn't sent along with a lesser prospect/player as a throw in.. it would be a HUGE mistake..

John-Rod... what makes me think he doesn't.. He hits mistakes.. hard.. He misses good pitches that he should handle.. His pitch recognitions ability is suspect, imho.. He swings and misses waaaaaay too much for mine or anyone's liking. He gets a fair number of walks.. again, with pitching that doesn't have the kind of control and command he'll see at the highest level of baseball.. Defensively, he's only marginal in the OF due primarily to his lack of speed [being no better than mediocre..] In short, he's swings hard & when he makes contact w/ minor league pitching.. the ball travels a long way.. History has shown these kinds of poor hit tool guys don't fare well at the ML level or they take a LONG frustrating time to find their sweet spot.. History aside.. what I've seen says.. don't expect much.. and I don't as indicated in my earlier comment..

Bieber's value dropped primarily due to the additional injury and reduced club control. Put a 5 year contract on the table while seeing he's healthy to end the 2023 season and start the 2024 season.. and his value will return.. It would not be a budget breaker.. or perhaps not to elite dollar levels/values.. His value will clearly be better than it is now by A LOT !!..

Peripherals for Quantrill blow.. A smart team sees through him not being an analytical darling.. like Cleveland.. btw.. St Louis is one of the smarter teams when it comes to pitchers..

Allen gives me that SP5/AAAA tweener vibe.. not always though as he's had some truly amazing outings in his short ML career.... My "spidey" sense says his value is about as high as it's going to be.. and that's not bad.. but if I were going to send one established major league starter from the Guardians away between now and the start of spring training, he'd be the guy..

As far as helping now.. sure.. I'd prefer that.. I absolutely don't want a 17 year who grew up around baseball because his daddy played MLB & he has had and is able to exploit all the advantages.. ( I want that kid when he turns 20.. ).. At the end of the day.. when it comes to what should be returned.. the phrase: Talent will out.. remains.. Whoever is acquired has to be talented.. it's why Kahlil Watson was acquired.. why Juan Brito was acquired..

Thanks for responding..

No his initials are not BL, but I haven't ruled out him claiming the job either. Haase is who I was referring to. The question is can he get back to who he was in 21 and 22. If so then he's ideal. If not then they'll need to look toward other options.

I don't disagree with your take or doubts surrounding Rodriguez. All I know is that he is 23 and is slashing 285/379/576/955 with 10 HR 12 2B in 158 AAA AB. Could be a mirage or there is the small possibility that this kid can actually hit. I don't know, but I think I would like to find out if an OFer isn't acquired.

I think Logan Allen is a bit better than an SP5/AAAA and his numbers suggest that too. Again, I'm not afraid of dealing Allen, but the return has to be a no-brainer. The return would have to be a helluva lot more than a Juan Brito or a Kalil Watson. I think if Allen is dealt it would be in a package for a more established SP. Someone like Keller is what comes to mind.

Good talk.

 

[petes999]

Let's look at our 20-man position players this offseason

Locked in starters - Ramirez, Naylor, Naylor, Gimenez, Kwan
Position battles
1B - Manzardo, his to lose (split DH w Naylor) -- what is not written about is his struggles since coming back from injury (.219/.738) - now he is probably going to get the gig (probably focus issues now with mom's medical issues) but we have no one else other than Pries/Arias to step up over Calhoun.
SS - Rocchio/Arias/Freeman(as 2nd) - shouldn't be an issue
CF - People are talking about Brennan/Laureano -- but the issue with Laureano is his inflated BAbip. Yes in last 14 games he is hitting .345/1.080 but his BAbip is .391. And vs lefties, he is hitting .345/.812 but with a .368 BAbip. Now, sometimes guys just hit and have high BABip but he is .309 for career. Vs lefties only, his career BABip is .346 so .368 isn't too far out of line (but only 523 and 113 ABs respectively). However, how many times do the Guard FO carry a righty platoon bat (not valued that much and can pick one up later). For me, it is one of Straw or Laureano probably once season starts.
RF - Valera - He was hot but is cooling off to .244/.760 last 28 days. But, Noel is still hot .288/.899 (but like Valera a bad 6-days at Toledo). He is an interesting bat that could also fill in at 1st to give Manzardo time. And, his K rate for last 90 days, is 23.5% (improving vs 31% last year).
Fry - I know SC loves him but I think he is deferred by year end. He is 1 for 11 since coming back. Now, it could be inconsistent ABs but do we keep him as a 13th man guy or try to sneak him back to minors via DFA when Bieber and McK get added?

And, as I said before, I would like Freeman to get some time in LF and push Kwan to CF or RF.

But, for those who think we are going to trade for an OF, we DeLauter coming up in a year or two as CF/RF. I think if an OF falls into their laps great but they are not searching for one that blocks Valera, DeLauter and Halpin.

Additional Minor League Depth - Brito, Martinez, Tena (not the easy DFA we thought earlier this year as his Milb numbers for last 90 days was .312/.872

So 15 for sure guys are - Ramirez, Naylor, Naylor, Gimenez, Kwan, Rocchio, Arias, Freeman, Brennan, Valera, Noel, Brito, Martinez, Tena, Straw (maybe traded but not cut with salaries attached)
On the bubble (pick 3-4) - Oscar, Laureano, Fry, Back-up catcher - Lavastida? (he had a great June/July but struggled lately)
Cuts - Gallagher, Calhoun
Added in spring - Manzardo (for Espino on 60-day)

Possible Rule 5 - Dylan Frias - was .260/.782 at High A ... Juan Brito was .286/.877 at low A (and 3 months younger in comparison - total Brito is 9 month older now). If Frias was thought highly enough to be in consideration to be added to AA roster (speculation by CleGuardPro which didn't happen) and plays SS, is he possibly added?
Jonathan Rodriquez - yes he is striking out a ton and probably won't be everyday player. But, vs LHP his K rate improved to 23% and he was .344/1.045. His issue is Noel is already on 40 as RHB power guy and is stuck defensively to RF/DH, so probably not. And, Oscar has also heated up to .312/.857 last 28 days.

So keep Oscar, Laureano from bubble and get a catcher if Lavastida isn't added for 18 position players. 19 would be Frias.
And, we may go lite on 20-man position players to fit another pitcher or two

 

[Gson]

Jordan Luplow has been DFA'd... he can still mash lefties..