Batman vs Superman spoilers thread

[col63onel]

Well, Jurassic World followed Jurassic Park 3, which was absolutely godawful, and The Force Awakens was bound to be looked at positively after the cinematic dump that was the Star Wars prequels. As for Fast 7, that entire series has always been about dumb fun. I haven't seen or really even read anything about Rogue Nation, so can't really comment there.

As for BvS, it comes following the highly-regarded Nolan Batman trilogy (I personally wasn't a huge fan of the third film, but the first two are awesome) that basically saved the Batman film franchise. That's a much harder act to follow than any of the films above, and so people are inevitably going to judge it more harshly.

I can understand if fans felt that way, but critics are supposed to be able to put nostalgia aside.

 

[KI4MVP]

As for BvS, it comes following the highly-regarded Nolan Batman trilogy (I personally wasn't a huge fan of the third film, but the first two are awesome) that basically saved the Batman film franchise. That's a much harder act to follow than any of the films above, and so people are inevitably going to judge it more harshly.

It actually follows MOS, which Nolan wrote.

 

[Jack Brickman]

It actually follows MOS, which Nolan wrote.

I wasn't referring to which movie it was a sequel to, but rather it being a Batman movie following the Nolan films.

 

[Hurl Bruce]

It was a 5 minute scene. If they spent a good 30 minutes or so on it, it would be tedious, but did it really affect the film?

I guess my main problem with those scenes, and other seemingly meaningless scenes, were that they interrupted what little flow the movie had.

 

[Adam]

Just got back from it and thanks to all the negative press i really quite enjoyed it. I had no expectations and so they were exceeded marginally and i felt happy. I really wish they could have cut out all the bruce wayne dreams, they seemed a lazy way to tell the plot and set up the next movie. Batfleck was pretty good and lex was fine. But it compares poorly to the generally tight story telling MCU has. Infact i now appreciate Age of Ultron a bit more. Thanks Zach. I loved the bat fights with the grapple especially where he used it on supes to increase the speed at which he hit the pillars. I like it when he doesnt use guns. im not a huge superman guy so any inconsistencies with him passed me by.

 

[Simmy]

Re-post from the other thread of some of my favorite online review discussion points ("If only 2Pac and Biggie's mothers shared a first name. They might still be here today.") :

- "The conflict is ultimately defused in the lamest way possible, when Batman discovers through Lois Lane that both of their mothers are named Martha. Martha Kent. Martha Wayne. Like, that’s it. He throws away his entire film-long assassination plan just because he discovers Superman has a mother with the same name as his, and it triggers a “sad Batman” flashback at just the right moment. It’s something you’d expect out of the LEGO Batman movie (that trailer got a better reaction from my audience than anything in this film), but not here. And yet, minutes later, Batman is saving Martha Kent and introducing himself as “a friend of her son’s.

Both the set-up conflict and resolution are stupid, because the film ends the way Man of Steel ended, with yet another Kryptonian monster destroying big chunks of now two different cities, only this time no one, the public or Batman, seems to care. Superman dies and suddenly that makes it all okay this time, even though pretty much the exact same thing happened."

- "And I’m just gonna leave this 2005 quote from Batman v. Supermanco-writer David S. Goyer here: “Batman vs. Superman is where you go when you admit to yourself that you’ve exhausted all possibilities... It’s somewhat of an admission that the franchise is on its last gasp.” (I already quoted it here, but it bears repeating.)"

- "After that, we witness Metropolis being wiped out by Superman and General Zod from the last movie. Superman destroys one of Bruce Wayne’s buildings by accident, which makes Wayne hate Superman. This is an important plot point. You see, Batman only approves of the destruction of private property when he’s the one doing the destroying. Later in the film, Batman tears through the city in his own personal tank, blows up some cars, shoots up a building with his Batwing, kills numerous anonymous henchmen, and lures a dangerous mutant back to a populated area without a coherent plan to defeat it. But he’s not an alien, so it’s OK."

- "Lex Luthor, a wealthy businessman and scientist, also hates Superman. Now, you probably couldn’t quite figure out why Lex Luthor hated Superman so much. Unlike Batman, he has no clear professional jealousy. In fact, in a brief aside, Luthor mentions the construction projects his company undertook after Superman wrecked Metropolis. If he had just kept his mouth shut and let Superman topple a few more buildings, he could have kept raking in the government contracts for decades to come. Instead, he spends most of the movie trying to get Batman and Superman to fight, then creates a monster in a pool of brown toilet water for no reason. I thought this guy was some kinda genius? It doesn’t make sense at first, but upon second viewing, it’s clear that Lex Luthor is actually a malfunctioning android and his moronic behavior is due to his circuits being fried. Every bizarre character choice can be chalked up to what I like to call the “Android Defense”. Something happened in Batman v Superman that doesn’t make any sense? It was probably done by a secretly malfunctioning robot."

- "Batman has another dream, where Superman has become a fascist dictator with his own army of stormtroopers. Batman is a lone freedom fighter rebelling against Superman’s iron rule. At the end of the dream, Superman punches a hole in Batman’s chest. Batman wakes up and sees The Flash (not identified as such, I just know because I’m a nerd) inside a time vortex. Flash explains some important plot points for another movie, then disappears. Why is The Flash invading Batman’s dreams? Why did he travel back in time? He’s got to juggle a lot of balls and he only has one butler to handle all of his affairs. He’s not a huge note-taker and doesn’t maintain an iCal. Things slip through the cracks. That’s why he sent The Flash back in time in the first place, like a really elaborate Post-It note. Unfortunately, if Batman had never forgotten about his dream, he never would have sent back The Flash to remind him about the dream, which creates a major paradox, which I don’t want to get into right now."

- "Dejected, Superman flies off to Buffalo, New York, or some other desolate, snow-covered landscape. There, we are treated to yet another dream sequence. This time, Clark Kent imagines seeing his father throwing bricks on to a pile of other bricks while telling a story about inadvertently ruining the lives of his neighbors during a flood. At this point, you may have asked yourself why Superman flew out to this barren wasteland. You may have also asked what that pile of rocks was? Maybe you thought it was the place where Clark Kent’s dad is buried, but I’m fairly certain it’s been established that he was buried on the Kent farm. So why the hell is Superman having visions of his dead dad in the middle of nowhere? As with everything, there is a simple answer. Nothing reminds me more of Kevin Costner’s acting than a pile of rocks, bricks and twigs in the snow. So, it’s natural that when one sees a pile of inanimate objects, one would pause to consider Kevin Costner. This movie makes perfect sense."

- "Lex Luthor’s monster, Doomsday, is unleashed and Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman join forces to defeat him. Why did Lex Luthor create a monster he couldn’t control when he easily could have just shot Superman with a kryptonite rocket 30 minutes into the movie? Why did he waste all of that time convincing Batman and Superman to fight if he was just going to create Doomsday? What if Batman killed Superman? Would Lex Luthor still have a need for a rampaging, uncontrollable beast?"

 

[Pyro]

Box office does not equal a good movie.

Is Zootopia a good movie?

 

[Pyro]

Batman shouldn't have been touched for a decade. Obvious money grab is obvious. Just another comic book movie they pumped out as fast as possible while comic book movies are still relevant.

Yeah, that's an impossible dream. As long as Marvel keeps cranking out blockbusters, we won't see the comic book movie become irrelevant for a long long time.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

Kill Superman?

Yes.

 

[spydy13]

Yes.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

So did they bring him back and how was it handled?

 

[spydy13]

So did they bring him back and how was it handled?

@gourimoko can probably give you a better explanation since I've never read them, but from reading the wiki on it they basically brought in 4 replacements, 2 of which were revealed to be impostors (bad guys).

It's also revealed that one of them took Superman's body to the fortress of solitude where he spends a few months recovering, breaks out, and defeats the impostors. To bring Clark Kent back from the dead, Superman, Lois Lane, and Supergirl fake evidence that he somehow got trapped in an underground bunker during Superman's fight with Doomsday and was only found once Superman used his x-ray vision to search the wreckage.

 

[bigfoot5415]

He was in the "meta-humans" videos that WW opened.

Well who was it in the dream sequence?

 

[Sebastian]

Basically, multiply JJ hate by 100 and you get Zack Snyder's level of appreciation among the press.

http://www.avclub.com/article/its-official-zack-snyder-unstoppable-234377

Heroic maverick Zack Snyder has finally, and definitively, triumphed over his archenemies in the critical press, deflecting their feeble, merely human jabs at hisBatman V Superman: Dawn Of Justice with an $180 million projected opening weekend. In the battle of overwrought, needlessly gritty spectacle versus (sorry, “V”) impassioned pleas for blockbuster-seekers to just stay home for once, please, the American people have clearly picked a side. The movie is on track for the fifth biggest opening in American history, and nothing Rotten Tomatoes has to say is going to make a lick of difference.

It’s not just movie critics that Snyder is heroically defying, though; he’s also taking on the fundamental rules and beliefs of the characters he’s chosen to tell his bloody, violent stories about. Take, for instance, Batman’s famous resistance to killing. Purists might argue that it’s a core component of the character, and that by violating it—by, say, having Bruce Wayne blow up a bunch of bad guys with a rocket launcher—Snyder is betraying a deep misunderstanding of what makes the character great. But obviously that’s silly. Hand-wringing arguments about “the one line Batman must never cross” didn’t make $180 million at the box office. Zack Snyder did.

Besides, the killings in the movie barely even qualify as murder, according to an interview Snyder just gave to Hey U Guys. “I tried to do it by proxy,” he explained. “Shoot the car they’re in, the car blows up or the grenade would go off in the guy’s hand, or when he shoots the tank and the guy pretty much lights the tank [himself]. I perceive it as him not killing directly, but if the bad guys are associated with a thing that happens to blow up, he would say that that’s not really my problem. A little more like manslaughter than murder.” Snyder also cited Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns—a major influence on his superhero throwdown—in which Batman kills pretty regularly. (He apparently wasn’t quite as moved to take pages from Miller’s other Batman comics, though, like the ones where he locks Robin in the cave and tells him to eat rats, or where he has post-fight burning-dock sex with his mask on, because “It’s BETTER that way.”)

Anyway, now that film criticism is officially over, and the Snyder Era has begun, we’ll obviously be pulling up stakes here at the old A.V. Club, and selling the address off to the audio-visual department of some lucky local high school. Our brick-and-mortar stores, meanwhile, will all be converted into a line of delicious fried chicken joints. Y’all should come by; we batter our chicken in our own sense of cinematic disappointment, and the tears of our heart-broken critics.

No doubt it will have a huge opening weekend. However, a lot of the biggest block-busters get their legs from repeat viewings or word of mouth to people who would not normally see that type of film.

I don't think that happens with this one. Not a single person I know who has seen the film has plans to see it again (some, ever). Some friends I know who were mildly interested in seeing it, but the poor word of mouth has dissuaded them.

Well who was it in the dream sequence?

The Flash (I guess). Not that one would know it. I thought it was (dead) Robin initially.

 

[col63onel]

Well who was it in the dream sequence?

The Flash