We seem to be of like minds on this.
Yeah, that's not surprising.
When you have time if you could expound on
1.) Luthor's lack of motivation of hating Superman
I thought this was pretty well explained in the film. Also, AFAIK, Snyder spent a bit more time explaining this than Richard Donner did in the original and no one seemed to have a problem with that. But in case anyone missed it, let me try to explain.
Luthor was raised by an
extremely physically (and perhaps otherwise) abusive, overbearing, and controlling father. He prayed to God for a miracle, some form of intervention, to protect him when his father would come to abuse him - but no one answered his prayers.
Like many abuse victims, this made him jaded; but beyond that, he became, as is explained in the film, quite psychotic and opposed the very notion of the belief that there was a God, let alone a God that was
both omnipotent and omniscient.
This is why Luthor develops a hatred towards Superman, as do many many people, including Batman himself. They do so as a rejection of Superman and what he represents; a holier than thou savior. This is a natural reaction to the fact that people begin to revere him as a God. You see this throughout the film; people literally wanting just to touch him because he worshiped.
Alfred literally spells this out in
detail in the scene where Bruce first lies to him about the dirty bomb and the "White Portuguese."
Snyder spends, at least a majority of the film, expounding this point. So it's not for a lack of explanation.
A lot of people, for some reason or another, assume that Superman is an idiot. I never really got this point; I mean, this was maybe the case in the Superman crossover comics where they would play up Batman's intellect, but, Superman is a very smart guy.
He knows, from the second act of the film and onwards (when he first meets Bruce Wayne) that something is up with this guy. Once he sees him for the first time, it's pretty obvious Batman is Bruce Wayne.
He's an investigative reporter.
Now, you don't think he can figure out what drives Bruce Wayne to do what he's done? The Martha bit makes sense, it just wasn't done very well; but it does make sense.
This moment, demonstrated to Batman, that he had become the villain. He lost his humanity. He was going around branding people. Torturing people. Beating people, and essentially consigning them to death in prison.
Alfred laments to him that he's slowly losing his humanity and that "everything has changed" since the battle in Metropolis.
Superman telling Batman "you're letting them kill Martha," is Superman referring to both of their mothers, not just his own.
This has to do with their different types of personalities. Bruce Wayne died when his parents died. But Clark Kent never did, he just donned the Superman persona to protect those he loved (like Spider-Man). Batman, unlike Supes, is a fucking
lunatic. So referring to his parents is one way to psychologically get at him. This has been the case for years, and was exploited more than once by the Joker, Clayface, and the Mad Hatter.
I think the bit people missed was that Superman was trying to get at Batman, psychologically by saying what he said. It was his last chance. Had he not said that, Batman would have surely killed him and then, very likely, retired as the Batman out of grief (or worse) having committed outright murder.
In other words, Superman saved them both by forcing Batman to regain his humanity and not become the murderer he thought Superman to be.
3.) Batman killing
I am fine with #3 because I am not a comic book reader. I think 1 and 2 are the two biggest holes in the movie. I have some lukewarm explanations for them, but wondering what your opinions are.
I find this comical.. I'm an avid Batman/Superman fan. I collected both comics in my youth.
Frank Miller's Batman, and Batman prior to the 1970s killed people. He killed people
all the time. This movie is based on Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, a story where Batman is older, much more cynical, and is no longer in his prime (he's in his 50s IIRC). Snyder used this version of Batman, making Affleck appear older than he really is, having him talk about his age, his legacy, showing that Robin has come, and untimely gone (died).
Affleck's Batman is very close to the Batman we saw in Dark Knight Returns (the comic). I thought Affleck was
brilliant in the role, and I'm shocked that I just wrote that because I was very very hesitant about his casting.
Snyder nailed the depiction of Batman, more than any other character in the movie. Period. There is no discussion to be had here. This is Batman right out of the graphic novel.
This version of Superman is not as dark as some others have been, but Snyder does play at that through Batman's visions.
I am planning on seeing it again tonight. We'll see if it holds up a second time.
A lot of people should keep in mind, the depictions of the characters in MoS and in BvS are really a play on either the original characters, or their darker variants.
Batman using pistols is something you'd never have seen in say Batman: The Animated Series (the most prolific Batman portrayal in the 1990s), but it is something Batman has done in the past. Batman has killed people, many people.
DC Comics scrubbed a lot of this to make Batman appeal to kids and be more family friendly in the hopes of selling comics; but these years were among the worst for the Batman comics.
I think the film does a great job of depicting all the characters. My only gripe was with Lex Luthor. I understand this is the original depiction of the character (the mad scientist), but it's simply too cliche. I much prefer the politician/businessman Luthor, rather than the one who creates the monster of the week.
p.s.
The scenes in this movie, many of them, were borrowed from both Dark Knight Returns, and also Excalibur (one of my favorite films). The final death scene with Superman was taken straight from the end of Excalibur, and that film is also referenced in the beginning of the movie. It's the film Bruce and his parents went to go see when they were attacked (look up).
I thought, by incorporating the now famous King Arthur story (the King and the Land are One), Snyder really goes out of his way to explain where he's going with the Superman mythos.
Really, all around great Superhero flick.
These two Snyder flicks have been vastly superior to more than a majority of Marvel's movies to date, IMHO.
