Browns stadium thread: To dome or not to dome

[inliner311]

Personally, I don't care where those events are held because in most cases, it's just pulling discretionary consumer spending from one location to another. No team, people will just spend more money at restaurants or other entertainment elsewhere. Not sure the net gain in the Northeast Ohio region overall is significant.

If Haslam wants to spend his own money, great. If not, I'd vote against any levy.

I get that. I'm not sure how much of a net gain the dome will be for the Northeast Ohio area. I can see some big concerts picking to come to Cleveland over Columbus which could pull people out of the region to come up here. I just don't think it will be that many of those types of concerts.

The one thing is I think the City of Cleveland and the low income population benefits from pulling in people from the suburbs to events of all kinds. I just think it would suck to pull that out from that population and give it to brookpark. Brookpark's population is so much smaller that they will most likely just spending the excess money on unnecessary facilities. While Cleveland municipal School district is projected to have a 168 million dollar budget deficit by 2026.

 

[southernflyer]

Personally, I don't care where those events are held because in most cases, it's just pulling discretionary consumer spending from one location to another.

That can be said for any public project or public/private cooperation. Whether it is a domed stadium, convention center or performing arts center.

The performing arts center in Orlando cost over $600m seven years ago. The next phase will cost over $175m. Most of the performances are expensive Broadway shows or major performing acts. How much of a public asset is debatable.

The Orange County/Orlando convention spends tens to hundred of millions of bed-tax revenue annually to compete with New Orleans, San Diego and Las Vegas for conventions. Doesn't help with the city streets or horrible transportation options.

If a businessperson is in town and goes to a Broadway show or convention meeting, stays at a Marriott and eats at a Morton's, how much is really going back into the 'community'. Not much. Cities will always spend on their vices. Some are tourism related, a public building so we can throw a worthless dead local politician's name on it, other arts, other sports. Pick your poison. Does Cleveland care if they pull that discretionary income from Detroit, Columbus or Pittsburgh? No.

 

[Vee-Rex]

Spoiler: it will not be a retractable roof.

Yeah I don't think people realize how unnecessary and impractical a retractable roof would be.

 

[Lee]

Yeah I don't think people realize how unnecessary and impractical a retractable roof would be.

It also makes for a shitty dome when the roof is closed. Liek an older convertable, its horrible when the roof is up, and in Cleveland the roof would be closed constantly.

I agree, retractable is a horrible idea,

 

[Benway]

I agree, retractable is a horrible idea,

Some things are better off retractable.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Again, I'm really skeptical that you truly get 200 extra events that otherwise would not be in the city. The reality is that adding a dome would take away a lot of events that would otherwise go to venues we already have, and there really isn't any benefit to having an event at a new Browns Dome rather than at, say Rocket Mortgage. The "extra" events would be only those that aren't suitable for any other venue in the city, and I'm skeptical there are significant numbers of those.

So when people boast about Lucas Oil holding over 200 events a year, it's because Lucas Oil has outbuildings that can also be used as smaller venues that attract different things. I agree with you that 200 events a year is unlikely.

However, there are, likely, a majority of events that Cleveland would almost instantly get in the event of a new dome:

Major music icons
Super Bowls
Big Ten Football Title Game
Final Four Men's
Wrestlemania
Major Boxing Events
OSHAA championship games
NFL Combine

That's all just off the top of my head. That's an extra...25 events possibly a year? As opposed to that valuable lakefront property that gets used 10 times a year?

This is all without (selfishly) adding the benefits it provides the Browns. Better GameDay facilities, more butts in seats to provide better atmosphere, easier access to the stadium, no weather affected games. It's enough for me to not care one bit where the Stadium is built, just build the fucking thing.

 

[Urban]

So when people boast about Lucas Oil holding over 200 events a year, it's because Lucas Oil has outbuildings that can also be used as smaller venues that attract different things. I agree with you that 200 events a year is unlikely.

However, there are, likely, a majority of events that Cleveland would almost instantly get in the event of a new dome:

Major music icons
Super Bowls
Big Ten Football Title Game
Final Four Men's
Wrestlemania
Major Boxing Events
OSHAA championship games
NFL Combine

That's all just off the top of my head. That's an extra...25 events possibly a year? As opposed to that valuable lakefront property that gets used 10 times a year?

This is all without (selfishly) adding the benefits it provides the Browns. Better GameDay facilities, more butts in seats to provide better atmosphere, easier access to the stadium, no weather affected games. It's enough for me to not care one bit where the Stadium is built, just build the fucking thing.

I don't really see why the B1G would give Cleveland the conference championship game after a decade + in Indianapolis. And who knows how much longer the B1G will even be a thing. Same with the combine- why leave Indy?

Final Four would probably be at best once every 6 years. Super Bowl maybe once a decade

 

[Selby]

Detroit has hosted the Super Bowl once. And it was almost 20 years ago. Lucas Oil has also only hosted one Super Bowl, which was over a decade ago. We might get to host one Super Bowl, but I think it is unlikely we would host another - and we certainly would not become part of the rotation.

I think people are severely overestimating how many additional events a dome would actually bring. I am in favor of a dome because it at least gives us the opportunity to host these events, but we aren't going to get them every year.

 

[Los216]

Detroit has hosted the Super Bowl once. And it was almost 20 years ago. Lucas Oil has also only hosted one Super Bowl, which was over a decade ago. We might get to host one Super Bowl, but I think it is unlikely we would host another - and we certainly would not become part of the rotation.

I think people are severely overestimating how many additional events a dome would actually bring. I am in favor of a dome because it at least gives us the opportunity to host these events, but we aren't going to get them every year.

Since being renovated Rocket Mortgage has hosted several big events. One thing about big sporting events that's become popular now is moving from market to market to keep interest fresh. For example, IND has hosted the B1G title game because there's no true competition in the region to take it from them. A dome in Cleveland would guarantee us hosting one and getting into that rotation. If the dome is downtown you can guarantee that the Rock Hall will use that to host their induction ceremonies which will be a huge draw.

A dome is likely to seat three times as many people as Rocket Mortgage and there's plenty of musical acts that could sell that out.

 

[Selby]

IND has hosted the B1G title game because there's no true competition in the region to take it from them. A dome in Cleveland would guarantee us hosting one and getting into that rotation.

Would it though? There is no possible way of us knowing this. Why isn't Detroit in the rotation with their dome? They're in B1G country too.

If the dome is downtown you can guarantee that the Rock Hall will use that to host their induction ceremonies which will be a huge draw.

The Rock Hall rotates where the induction ceremonies are held. They've been held at Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse in the past. Last year it was in Brooklyn at Barclays. Two years ago it was at Microsoft Theater which holds 7,100. Hosting it at a football stadium would be far too large based on previous venues.

A dome is likely to seat three times as many people as Rocket Mortgage and there's plenty of musical acts that could sell that out.

I don't think there are as many as you think, at least not in a market like Cleveland. Let's look at Ford Field for comparison since it is also a mid-sized midwest market. Over the last decade the most musical acts they've had in a calendar year is 5. Most years they are looking at 2-4 acts. And of those acts a lot of names show up numerous times - Taylor Swift, Kenny Chesney, Beyonce, Luke Bryan, Ed Sheeran. There are going to be other older acts that tour occasionally (Rolling Stones, Metallica, George Strait) and there will be other upcoming artists (Zach Bryan, Luke Combs) but that really isn't a ton of artists.

Again, I'm not saying a dome is a bad idea. I think it is a great idea because it allows us the ability to host these events when they do come around. But I think there are only a dozen or so musical acts that can currently sell out a football stadium in a market the size of Cleveland, and they aren't touring each year. Just my thoughts. I'd love to be wrong and see the domed stadium get 10+ major artists a year.

 

[MikeOC33]

Bring back The World Series of Rock baby!!! Stuff the stadium!

Pink Floyd
KANSAS
Rolling Stones
Jeff Beck
Fleetwood Mac

...come on now!

And with legal marijuana now...tho that still won't explain my hallucinations during the Floyd "Pigs" concert, or me getting lost walking around the outside of the stadium multiple times after the Kansas concert....ahh good times, good times (of what fragments l could ever remember!)

 

[inliner311]

Would it though? There is no possible way of us knowing this. Why isn't Detroit in the rotation with their dome? They're in B1G country too.


The Rock Hall rotates where the induction ceremonies are held. They've been held at Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse in the past. Last year it was in Brooklyn at Barclays. Two years ago it was at Microsoft Theater which holds 7,100. Hosting it at a football stadium would be far too large based on previous venues.


I don't think there are as many as you think, at least not in a market like Cleveland. Let's look at Ford Field for comparison since it is also a mid-sized midwest market. Over the last decade the most musical acts they've had in a calendar year is 5. Most years they are looking at 2-4 acts. And of those acts a lot of names show up numerous times - Taylor Swift, Kenny Chesney, Beyonce, Luke Bryan, Ed Sheeran. There are going to be other older acts that tour occasionally (Rolling Stones, Metallica, George Strait) and there will be other upcoming artists (Zach Bryan, Luke Combs) but that really isn't a ton of artists.

Again, I'm not saying a dome is a bad idea. I think it is a great idea because it allows us the ability to host these events when they do come around. But I think there are only a dozen or so musical acts that can currently sell out a football stadium in a market the size of Cleveland, and they aren't touring each year. Just my thoughts. I'd love to be wrong and see the domed stadium get 10+ major artists a year.

So I think it's more about how you can configure your dome to different sizes to make it cost effective to host concerts. The Q has a capacity of 13,591 for end stage configuration and 6,103 in theater configuration. I couldn't find configurations for Browns stadium but the first concert there was said to have 47,000 people.

I think there is a middle ground configuration that Browns stadium and the Q just doesn't cover that hurts the amount of concerts Cleveland gets. Also Browns Stadium has alot of walkway issues and I'm sure there is a minimum amount of staff to make it safe and accessible. My guess for it to be profitable the draw would need to be fairly high for an event. Also the staff isn't a year round staff, can they get enough staff for singular events not close to football season.

My guess is they know these limitation and the dome would address them so they can make smaller configurations to accommodate that middle ground events. My concern is how many of those events would be taken from the Q if the dome has cost effective small configurations and that tax revenue gets taken from the city of Cleveland if it goes to brookpark.

 

[Selby]

I think there is a middle ground configuration that Browns stadium and the Q just doesn't cover that hurts the amount of concerts Cleveland gets.

I think perhaps Blossom Music Center would be the closest thing NEO/Cleveland Metro would have to be that happy medium with a capacity of 23,000. But I agree with you - depending on how they work the configuration they could reasonably host some concerts with a capacity of roughly 30,000. And whether this hypothetical dome is in downtown or Brook Park, it could result in more concerts coming to Cuyahoga County at least.

 

[Huber.]

Bring back The World Series of Rock baby!!! Stuff the stadium!

Pink Floyd
KANSAS
Rolling Stones
Jeff Beck
Fleetwood Mac

...come on now!

And with legal marijuana now...tho that still won't explain my hallucinations during the Floyd "Pigs" concert, or me getting lost walking around the outside of the stadium multiple times after the Kansas concert....ahh good times, good times (of what fragments l could ever remember!)

All of these people will be dead by the time it's built

 

[2 For The Brew]

Bring back The World Series of Rock baby!!! Stuff the stadium!

Pink Floyd
KANSAS
Rolling Stones
Jeff Beck
Fleetwood Mac

...come on now!

And with legal marijuana now...tho that still won't explain my hallucinations during the Floyd "Pigs" concert, or me getting lost walking around the outside of the stadium multiple times after the Kansas concert....ahh good times, good times (of what fragments l could ever remember!)

Rick Derringer, J Geils, Bob Seger, Peter Frampton. Summer 1977. SIX first aid stations within the stadium. And that was one of the weaker WSOR shows.

Legal marijuana now LOL like that mattered. Don‘t think you can smoke anything indoors now in most jurisdictions.