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Bucks Get Magloire for Mason

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I know this is preason so please no one judge me to harshly... because these are just #'s from the 7 preseason games.

Cleveland is...
5th or top 5 in scoring for teams in the NBA
8th in fewest points allowed so top 10 as you could say it

Milwaukee is...
18th in scoring so top 20
14th in points allowed so top 15

Preseason I know... Just trying to say that preseason doesn't exactly win Championships, thank goodness right TJ?

***EDIT*** Just so you guys don't think I'm making this up
http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html#top
 
TJ'sDa1 said:
Well if you guys are going to give me crap for trying to be diplomatic, let me break it down as such....

Williams > Snow
Kukoc > Jackson
Bell > Sasha
Smith <= Marshall
Gadzuric > Varejao/Henderson
Jiri = Newble

Stop hating so hard CDT and recognize. I've told you all along, even before this deal that the Bucks were a playoff team. You have them as a 12 seed. Time will tell who the fool is. :chuckles:


Nice breakdown, not realistic but nice.

Kukoc is done, he's had the fork in his back for the past few seasons. On any team with depth he wouldn't get more then 5 minutes a night. I don't see him getting more then that with the Bucks this year. No coach in his right mind would trade Luke Jackson for the 37 year old Kukoc.

Saying Charlie Bell is better then anyone at this point is a little retarded. When was the last time he even played in the NBA? The guy is a 10 day contract player who probably won't be with the team.

No one would take Joe Smith over Yell...at least anyone who wants to win.

I'll give you Gadz based on Anderson's injury, IF Varejao comes back healthy then its a toss up.

If Jiri was even close to Newble he would still be on the Cavs roster and you guys would have Sasha or Jackson instead. Fact is Jiri is a shooter who has lost confidence in his shot. No matter how bad Newble shoots he is still a good defender something Jiri can never claim to be.
 
Exactly...

Who the hell is this Bell guy anyway? He reminds me of a younger Mateen Cleaves who will spend his career living out of his suitcase and sleeping at the Ramada because he will be a 10 day player. Sasha dropped 17 or so when he started, he can out shoot out hustle and just flat out trounce Bell. Joe Smith wow...this guy is pretty bad he used to have a decent mid range jimmy but thats fading fast. Donyell is a top 5 three point shooter. The only thing Joe Smith was ever top 5 in was the draft and he was a BUST! And seriously if Jiri is so great why did we deal him to you and keep the other 3? (jax,pavs,newbs) He can't shoot and generally looks like a lost puppy on the floor. Terrible logic HOMER Simpson
 
TJ'sDa1 said:
Well if you guys are going to give me crap for trying to be diplomatic, let me break it down as such....

Williams > Snow
Kukoc > Jackson
Bell > Sasha
Smith <= Marshall
Gadzuric > Varejao/Henderson
Jiri = Newble

Stop hating so hard CDT and recognize. I've told you all along, even before this deal that the Bucks were a playoff team. You have them as a 12 seed. Time will tell who the fool is. :chuckles:

what is your purpose on this board seriously, i do not like you and all you do is talk about the bucks, this is a cavs board, not a NBA board. you lost your best player, you have a rookie as a center and a recovering pg, all your throwing out is names, Joe Smith isnt doing much this year, nor has he done anything his whole career. your team is awful and will be in the lottery for years to come, so just go away.
 
TJ how do you have 11 rep points (and more than me)? Shame on anyone who gave him anything.

Charlie Bell??? I would like a quick description how he is better than anyone on the Cavaliers, and please please please i beg you to bring up his preseason stats.
 
i got a few things to say.

A. welsh isn't equal to Newble.
B. Magloire is a good pick up but lets read alittle about what this mod from a different board thats very respected do my talking

by Tsherkin.
Let's try to put Magloire into perspective here. He isn't a shooting big man or a post-up big man; that is to say, his offense isn't dominant in any particular regard and he's actually got a pretty low eFG% on jumpers. His career-high in scoring is 13.7 ppg and the only time he shot over 50% was in his second season (starting only 8 games and playing in 19 mpg); since then, 48%, 47.3% and 43.2% (though that's the year he busted his ring finger). As a starter, you can count on between 11 and 12 ppg and about 9 rpg. That's not revolutionary. He's not a huge presence in the paint, he's just a solid rebounder for his size, etc. In short, he's not a world-altering presence for the Bucks.

C. the bucks should make the playoffs. But saying they will do it with the first 5 seeds isn't so likely. They are in the fight for the last 3 seeds as of right now imo.

D.Bucks got some players i like alot. But as a fan i also know their limits and for that reason i don't think they will be a huge presence to make the bucks a top 5 team in the east. Ask any cav fan on this board, They should know about me wanting Simmons to be our 3rd option and to save us money to get us more peices. Also i always wanted Magloire if Z wasn't gonna come back. I also thought Mason(My favorite former buck) woulda made the bench alot better, and become the 6th man of the yr. That idea was thrown out the window.

E. We just have to wait for the season i guess. TJ might be right and we all might be wrong,But again we all might be right and he might be wrong. I personally believe you have to be stupid to think that the lineup of what the bucks have will make them a elite team in the stronger east. Elite? No. Playoffs? Possible.
 
I expect the Bucks to struggle in November due to a brutal schedule and high turnover on the roster. If they make it out of November within a game or two of .500, I'll be happy and will have no doubt that they'll finish with 47+wins. Our frontcourt talent/depth is ridiculous at this point. Point gaurd and shooting gaurd aren't bad either. Come to think of it, our small forward is pretty good too.

Here are the center rankings from CBS Sportsline. And you think I'm crazy...

1. Shaquille O'Neal, Miami: Now 33, O'Neal signed a five-year extension that almost certainly guarantees he'll end his career in South Florida. He passed on an additional $25 million dollars in order to ensure the Heat would be able to surround him with a better supporting cast to chase a championship, his lone motivation on the court these days. O'Neal wants to bring down bad guys when his playing days are over, but before that time comes, he hopes to hang a couple banners in the rafters at AmericanAirlines Arena. As long as he stays healthy and in shape, that goal will always be in reach.

2. Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix: During last year's playoffs, no one was more impressive. No one. He took it to Tim Duncan in the Western Conference finals, dominating in all facets. Considering his jumper is coming along, he'll soon be unguardable, combining imposing physicality with finesse skills. Nasty. Best of all, the kid has the special gift of doing whatever it takes, extending his ceiling when necessary. If he were O'Neal's size, he'd be the best player in the game already. Despite that, don't count against him getting to that level over the next few years.

3. Chris Bosh, Toronto: It's easy to forget he only spent a single season in college, and his development in the pros has been a steady progression to super-stardom. If it weren't for him, the Raptors would be the league's most hopeless franchise, but they had better surround him with significant talent soon. He'll line up out of position at center this season, allowing the team to play rookie Charlie Villanueva at the four, but there's no question he's best suited playing a Kevin Garnett-type power forward role. Thanks to the NBA's rookie/sophomore event, he has been a part of the past two All-Star weekends, and he told me he plans on making himself a fixture. To do so, he'll have to gain enough attention to be selected by Eastern Conference coaches, which seems like a mere formality given his progress.

4. Ben Wallace, Detroit: Still the most gifted post defender in the game, Big Ben has made a living doing what few others will -- concentrating on the little things that help you win, from always being in position to monopolizing the boards. He's a saner, bigger version of Dennis Rodman, which allows him to give up three inches to most centers and still take them out of their comfort zone. On offense, he has mostly gotten by on put-backs and dunks, but to his credit, he has expanded his repertoire to the point where he can now consistently knock down short jumpers, making him even more of an asset. New coach Flip Saunders will enjoy his gifts after a decade in Minnesota without a competent center.

5. Yao Ming, Houston: We're still waiting on him to take his game to the next level. At 7-feet-5, he needs to dominate, needs to assert himself as a force, and as he enters year No. 4 in the NBA, he has showed only flashes of those abilities. Consider that in the Chinese League, he averaged over 19 rebounds in each of his last two seasons before coming over, scoring about 30 per game. While the level of competition is obviously much tougher here, he should still be breaking the 20 point-10 rebound barrier. With Tracy McGrady taking some of the pressure off him, he should step up and embrace the advantages his size and skill level afford him.

6. Marcus Camby, Denver: He has stayed healthy most of the past two seasons, missing fewer than 20 games each year. While that might not be satisfactory for most, it has to be considered a victory for Camby, considering the two seasons represent the most action he has seen in his nine-year career. With him anchoring the defense, Denver turned into a juggernaut under George Karl, fueled by his double-doubles and formidable shot-blocking presence. He was definitely the Nuggets' most valuable player last season and will have reprise his role for the team to live up to expectations, which now include a Northwest Division title.

7. Dwight Howard, Orlando: Howard was the player whose ranking required the most deliberation. He's still a kid, only 19, and although he's best suited for a power forward role, the Magic plan on playing him at the pivot more this year, envisioning him filling a Stoudemire-type role as they look to push the tempo. He's nowhere close to fulfilling his potential, still lacking go-to post moves and relying heavily on his remarkable athleticism. That was good enough to get him 12 points and 10 boards as a rookie, coming without the benefit of any respect from the refs, which will no doubt come in year No. 2. He's one of the league's future superstars. Of that, there should be no question.

8. Jamaal Magloire, New Orleans/Oklahoma City: The Canadian is a former All-Star but missed 59 games last season with a broken finger that completely destroyed the Hornets' season. The team almost parted ways with him on draft day but now envisions him and new point guard Chris Paul combining to bring the team back toward respectability. Magloire's skill isn't overwhelming, but he does everything particularly well and never takes a night off. He should rebound this year, health permitting.

9. Brad Miller, Sacramento: He works hard, facilitates offense with his superb understanding of the game and substantial passing skills, scores and rebounds. What else can you want? Although he's not as physically strong as many other centers, he holds his own and compensates through effort. Limited to just 56 games by injury a year ago, Miller is looking to bounce back and should form a formidable post combination alongside new acquisition Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

10. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cleveland: He's finally shed the oft-injured tag after three consecutive seasons playing 78 games or more, overcoming the foot problems that derailed him earlier in his career. The Cavs rewarded him with a new contract, giving LeBron James and Larry Hughes a post threat to help free them up. Ilgauskas, despite being 7-3, is a finesse center, able to fill it up with jump hooks and crafty footwork in the paint. The Lithuanian should enhance his reputation this postseason as Cleveland ends its playoff drought.

11. Eddy Curry, Chicago: After finally appearing comfortable in his own skin, Curry's breakout season was ended by a heart abnormality, a condition that will cast doubt on his effectiveness for the remainder of his career. It's not like he has bad knees or tender ankles -- a questionable ticker is a haunting reminder of our vulnerability. Hopefully, he's able to persevere; the 7-footer is just beginning to scratch the surface of his abilities.

12. Andrew Bogut, Milwaukee: The highest-ranked rookie in any of the positional rankings, Bogut should have the biggest impact of any of this year's first-year players. His size and the fact he's a legitimate center aren't his only attributes; he not only dominated in college, but also in international events. The Bucks hit the lottery, literally, in securing his services, finding a player who not only fit their needs but wants to be in Milwaukee as part of its rebuilding process. He'll be able to hold his own in the post from Day 1, bringing a Brad Miller-type game to the table.[/quote]

.................................

We've been speculating all summer. It's almost gametime now.
 
First off..Sportsline is garbage Tony Meija or w/e is worse then Peter Vescey. Bosh? Please Z demolishes him when we play...Dwight Howard? maybe in a year or two but now? nahhhh...Who cares about Bogut anyway he is Ostertag :chuckles: he hasn't proven a thing..so to rank him among accomplished centers is rediculous, just like cbs sportsline.
 
::yawn::

8. Jamaal Magloire, New Orleans/Oklahoma City: The Canadian is a former All-Star(Z had a way better season btw) but missed 59 games last season with a broken finger that completely destroyed the Hornets' season. The team almost parted ways with him on draft day but now envisions him and new point guard Chris Paul(not gonna happen, obviously he is very very high on CP as i am) combining to bring the team back toward respectability. Magloire's skill isn't overwhelming, but he does everything particularly well and never takes a night off. He should rebound this year, health permitting.


this was posted when he wasn't traded. Magloire was gonna be a first option. This doesn't mean he's better than Z at all. This means that he thought Magloire would have a good season and his numbers should be better hopefully if his heath permits. Z on the other hand has help. So he thinks Z's numbers wouldn't be as good this yr as it was last yr. Z might still be the 2cd option with hughes back being the 3rd but it still means less touches.

Now Magloire has to deal with the same situation. If you think magloire is gonna be a bigger impact then Z then you my friend need to seek professional help.

Magloire doesn't do anything great. Z on the other hand gets the rebounds that means the most and can shoot inside and out and is a huge huge headache for whoever gaurding him including shaq(remember last yr when shaq was taken off Z because of foul problems very very early and got a 3 second call because he was in the paint and not gaurding any1?)

Magloire doesn't demand nearly as much attention as Z which brings the point magloire won't be as big as a impact as Z.
 
A little selective aren't we? Let me provide some "expert" opinions of my own:

Z - #8
Bogut - #14
Magloire - #16

http://fantasysports.yahoo.com/analysis/news?slug=bf-crank-05&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&league=fantasy/nba

Z - #5
Magloire - #9
Bogut - #12

http://probasketball.about.com/od/fantasybasketball/a/fantasycrank06.htm

Z - #6
Magloire - #8
Bogut - unranked

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/4870666

Look at some of Tony Mejia's picks in other positions as well. If you agree with his center rankings, you must agree when he says Hughes is better than Redd. Is Tony in Cleveland? He also considers Gooden and Marshall better than Joe Smith and Gadzuric. We also have 2 top 50 players in Lebron (#6) and Hughes (#34). Bucks have one in Redd (#38)

But frankly Tony Mejia is bit of joke to me. He has Jerome James as the 15th, best center. Jerome James is awful. Nor does he think much of your favorite player, TJ Ford, who did not rank in the pg rankings, while guys like Chris Paul ((13th) and Deron Williams (16th) did. Even Jamal Crawford, who is liability on and off the court, recieved a large nod over TJ Ford.

If you are going to bring in "expert" opinions (which are only opinions that get paid), you better hope the entire industry is behind it, and not just one guy.
 
Naah. I wouldn't say that Magloire is better than Z....certainly not on offense. However, he is a better rebounder and defender than Z and that's just what the Bucks are looking for to play alongside Bogut.

BTW CDT...The Bucks and Nuggets are currently tied at halftime 66-66. Charlie Bell has 13pts...I think that's already more than Luke and Sasha combined tonight in Boston. You don't know Bell, but you will know Bell. He's got one win against your boys already. He's a player. Trust me on this.
 
Owned...you get some rep for that factual evidence, haha I love the part where you brought in the other rankings on TJ Gadz and Redd. So tj what do you have to say on this?
 
TJ'sDa1 said:
Naah. I wouldn't say that Magloire is better than Z....certainly not on offense. However, he is a better rebounder and defender than Z and that's just what the Bucks are looking for to play alongside Bogut.

BTW CDT...The Bucks and Nuggets are currently tied at halftime 66-66. Charlie Bell has 13pts...I think that's already more than Luke and Sasha combined tonight in Boston. You don't know Bell, but you will know Bell. He's got one win against your boys already. He's a player. Trust me on this.

it's preseason.... not a big deal
 
a "professionals" veiw on Z

Hollinger
On the court, Ilgauskas played much harder on defense than he had the previous two seasons, making more of an effort to help against screen-and-rolls and to chase loose balls. Combined with his shot-blocking ability, he put up a solid Defensive PER. He needs to be much more of a force on the defensive boards, though. Ilgauskas led the NBA in offensive rebounds, yet his overall Rebound Rate was quite ordinary because he did so little at the defensive end.

If he delivers defensively, the Cavs will have few complaints because Ilgauskas remains one of the game's best post players and is a surprisingly accurate shooter. He could stand to get a little better at passing out of double-teams, but that shouldn't be too great a worry as long as LeBron James is around -- most of the double-teaming will be directed at him.

no1 can deny that Z isn't 1 of the best offensive rebounders if not the best in the nba today, Also not many can deny that he isn't 1 of the best post players in the nba today. His defense could be better but it's not as terrible as people make it out to be.

I rather have big Z's presence downlow on both ends then Magloires for numberous of reasons.
 
CavsDawgsTribe said:
Owned...you get some rep for that factual evidence, haha I love the part where you brought in the other rankings on TJ Gadz and Redd. So tj what do you have to say on this?

Scoreboard 1-0.
 

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