Chief Wahoo Discussion

[Tornicade]

what about Chief wojo

 

[Cavatt]

I like Wahoo as a cartoon character, it is weirdly compelling and he has lots of personality. It is just past he point where they should change it. It is crazy and they should have just said, "Um yeah we see your point". At this point it really feels like people are really dug in on this racist thing. Saying, "I am sure native Americans have bigger fish to fry" is totally fine. That is just making the point though. If this is a tiny fish, just throw it back already. No reason to hold on tightly to this. The team needs rejuvenation.

Spiders is cool. Love the web on the C hat. Too cool.

 

[Tornicade]

Chief Wahoo wasn't created to be racist. he was a marketing gimmick intended to appeal to children so they would bug their daddies to take them to a baseball game.

However removing Chief Wahoo just because of his caricature race would be extremely racist

 

[Tornicade]

so Huber, explain to me how targeting a mascot based on his caricature race and having him removed isn't racism ? or you busy trying to get away from everything since you believe that's why most people would goto a music festival.

 

[Bill Walton.]

The white man already took the Indians off our land. Now he gon take them off our hats?


DOWN WITH THE PASTIES!!!

 

[Huber.]

so Huber, explain to me how targeting a mascot based on his caricature race and having him removed isn't racism ? or you busy trying to get away from everything since you believe that's why most people would goto a music festival.

Please link to where you found out that Wahoo was created as a marketing gimmick intended to appeal to children so they would bug their daddies to take them to a baseball game and I will take it away. I will save you some time. Look at pictures from games in the 40's. Do you see many kids in the stands?

 

[Tornicade]

Please link to where you found out that Wahoo was created as a marketing gimmick intended to appeal to children so they would bug their daddies to take them to a baseball game and I will take it away. I will save you some time. Look at pictures from games in the 40's. Do you see many kids in the stands?

Well it took 40 years of history to Develop Chief Wahoo. It was a different era then. sports coverage utilized cartoons

But that's an interesting take that there were no children in baseball when it was a sport to attend with the whole family and youth baseball itself began in the 1930's

Team symbols and mascots were part of the marketing to draw people in. its one of the Reasons The tribe adopted chief wahoo. He was already in circulation as cartoon before Al Reynolds and its was just a matter of putting a name with a familiar face,

Here is a toy from 1940
Lot 267: 1940's Chief Wahoo, Cleveland Indians, Rubber Squeeze Toy, Manufactured by Rempel
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-l...leveland-indians,-rubber-squ-267-c-e2c4dcdb46

was this marketed to Adults? I highly doubt it.

oh look theres a kid in the front row..

more kids in the front row and if you close enough youll see kids littered about dressed the same as adults.

theres a dozen or so kids right there in front of the camera.


Baseball Cards were provided with comic books and bubble gum.

 

[macbdog]

Pretty sure kids liked playing baseball back then even without a cartoon logo. It wasn't like I drove merchandise sales- not a single jersey or cap in any of those photos.

 

[Tornicade]

Pretty sure kids liked playing baseball back then even without a cartoon logo. It wasn't like I drove merchandise sales- not a single jersey or cap in any of those photos.

so they made Wahoo a mascot to make fun of Indians?

I'm not getting the counter argument here or why there is an argument at all.
baseball was all about price discrimination.
They had different prices based on gender, age, color. and seat location.
not getting enough seats filled by your full ticket price men. make a free ladies night so they will bring their dates/wives there.
Local Broadcast rights were practically given away as advertisement.
The tems represented local pride and established and identity. These Owners didn't take branding lightly.

MLB started out as an amateur sport where players were competed for and paid under the table.

The redstockings went on barnstorming tours tomake a name for themselves and ecourageother teams to travel.

I'm not sure why people would scoff at the idea that an extension of that branding marketed kids.

kids filled seats and brought people back.

Attendance and Concessions as well as advertisement placement is what fueled Baseball in this era. not t shirt and hat sales.

sure the initial Indian cartoons were a product of sports cartoon editorializing. The Chief wahoo name was the nick name of a former Indians pitcher.

marketing children in the fifties was a big thing and has been ever since that model was first embraced by baseball in the forties who saw how kid responded to comic books and the us war propaganda.

 

[AZ_]

Like, literally none of what you're rambling about in any way dismisses the fact that Chief Wahoo is a racist symbol.

I think you're trying to say that since it wasn't created with malice that it isn't racist, or something. But the image is racist, it was back then and it is now.

They just didn't really give a shit what Native Americans thought, or most black people for that matter (refer to the photos you posted for more information).

 

[Huber.]

so they made Wahoo a mascot to make fun of Indians?

I'm not getting the counter argument here or why there is an argument at all.
baseball was all about price discrimination.
They had different prices based on gender, age, color. and seat location.
not getting enough seats filled by your full ticket price men. make a free ladies night so they will bring their dates/wives there.
Local Broadcast rights were practically given away as advertisement.
The tems represented local pride and established and identity. These Owners didn't take branding lightly.

MLB started out as an amateur sport where players were competed for and paid under the table.

The redstockings went on barnstorming tours tomake a name for themselves and ecourageother teams to travel.

I'm not sure why people would scoff at the idea that an extension of that branding marketed kids.

kids filled seats and brought people back.

Attendance and Concessions as well as advertisement placement is what fueled Baseball in this era. not t shirt and hat sales.

sure the initial Indian cartoons were a product of sports cartoon editorializing. The Chief wahoo name was the nick name of a former Indians pitcher.

marketing children in the fifties was a big thing and has been ever since that model was first embraced by baseball in the forties who saw how kid responded to comic books and the us war propaganda.

Huh, this is all interesting information. Too bad it's probably not true given the source



@David.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Anyone who can't appreciate what Tornicade is doing here is missing out

 

[macbdog]

Anyone who can't appreciate what Tornicade is doing here is missing out

Making gigantic responses to a half assed post I made in 30 seconds while pooping?

 

[Arketebel]

The almighty Bomani has spoken. Gotta go with Caucasians...

Suck on that, PC America! We're actually going with it.

I'm game if this is shortened to Caucs . . .

Mascot: Harry Cauc
Farm grown 3-5 sluggers: The Big Caucs
Playoff slogan stolen from Cavs: Caucs All In

Feel free to expand and insert your own.

 

[Tornicade]

Like, literally none of what you're rambling about in any way dismisses the fact that Chief Wahoo is a racist symbol.

I think you're trying to say that since it wasn't created with malice that it isn't racist, or something. But the image is racist, it was back then and it is now.

They just didn't really give a shit what Native Americans thought, or most black people for that matter (refer to the photos you posted for more information).

Native Americans ddnt really give a shit either ... until the 70's when it was used as a platform to bring recognition to other Indian political agenda's and fund raising.

The point is if you remove a mascot for the sole purpose of the mascots caricature race. that action is in itself racist and should not be tolerated.

I'm sure Chief Wahoo is offensive to all cartoon Indians everywhere but Wahoo certainly ddoesnt represent current perceptions and stereotype of current American Indians.

Americans have every right to assimilate aspects of Indian Culture into their lives just as they do with every other culture that gets marketed in todays culture.

I also don't think the American Indian community has the right to tell American companies what they are or aren't allowed to use from a culture that they are barely if at all any more familiar with than the rest of American culture.

Let me know when they show Wahoo at the Casino getting blasted drunk using his BLM stipend to buy some peyote.. then I might agree there is an issue.

As far as the mindset regarding Indians in general Americans of the early 1900's were just a decade removed from the last battle of 300 years of fighting amongst/with Indians and European settlers.

I find it really hypocritical of any American being outraged over the symbolism of the tomahawk, Feathered headdress, accompanied with a dum beat yet have no issues with the US government managing revenues and control of land that was provided to these people.
or the complete indifference of Americans that allows poverty to strike these people as whole forcing a lot of them to integrate into American Society in a way not of their own choosing.

Let the American Tribes trademark their culture and history and force teams like the Indians and the Redskins pay for the rights to use their branding.

see how quickly the problem resolves itself.

but hey why address the real issues of American Indians when we can come down strong and righteous on the superfluous ones.

when the real racism is written into law as the Indian trust Management from an 1836 edict that the Indians are too incompetent to handle their lad themselves and the excessive bureaucracy impeding these communities from getting things they need .