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Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

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Yes...

I've been saying as much for almost 2 months now, because it is. All of the small stuff has been hammered out, most of the slightly contentious items (universal DH, economic advancement packages, future branding initiatives, etc.) are all hammered out. That stuff happens behind closed doors and in the dark and doesn't see the light of day because it isn't newsworthy.

Also, one group had agreed with the other group to bring a counterproposal to the table and on the day that counterproposal was to be presented the group instead dropped a mediator on the other group.

Also, the main thing to keep in mind in this entire thing...when the CBA expired the MLB/owners did not have to lockout the players. The CBA could have been renegotiated without a lockout. The owners chose to lockout the players.

If you aren't swayed one way or the other while one side locked the other group out from hour 1 when they didn't have to and has thrown PR move after PR move out against the other instead of negotiating at the table in good faith, then their PR moves are working hahahaha.
So what's the end game for MLB? They are apparently willing to wait it out, but for how long? It is hard for to me to imagine they'd sacrifice a season, but perhaps I am unclear on how they view the stakes. Is there a single essential goal they are locking out to achieve? I could guess, but why not ask somebody who might actually know...
 
@LL3

Even though we can fight like cats and dogs on here, we would have made compromises by now even on here. To be sincere, if they miss games this season, I dont know if MLB will ever recover from it going forward. This will cost them millions of dollars if they lose games... I hope both sides understand that...
 
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@LL3

Even though we can fight like cats and dogs on here, we would have made compromises by now even on here. To be sincere, if they miss games this season, I dont know if MLB will ever recover from it going forward. This will cost them millions of dollars if they lose games... I hope both sides understand that...
I cannot really imagine they do not understand...but maybe I am wrong.
 
I cannot really imagine they do not understand...but maybe I am wrong.

Sincerely to the casual fans, it feels like they dont right now. We all hope you are right otherwise we may be finding a new summer sport lol
 
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So what's the end game for MLB? They are apparently willing to wait it out, but for how long? It is hard for to me to imagine they'd sacrifice a season, but perhaps I am unclear on how they view the stakes. Is there a single essential goal they are locking out to achieve? I could guess, but why not ask somebody who might actually know...

My read on the situation.

I don't think the MLB is willing to wait it out as much as you think, based on the actions they are taking. They are tossing PR move after PR move out to make the MLBPA look bad and get them to blink first in the eye of public discourse in such a short span because they know in a few weeks PR moves from either side will make public discourse mad at everyone, not just one side. They're running out of time for those kind of moves and that's why they pulled out the mediator hail mary, IMO.

And they know they're running out of time because this truly is the first time the players union has the ammo, by the way of pooled resources for their players protected by the union that they undertook about 5 years ago and starting gathering, to be able to go into the season and miss games and still keep the low guys on the totem pole who haven't made anything to this point happy while they aren't getting paid for playing. Why the MLBPA hasn't blinked yet and hasn't compromised as much as quickly as they have in negotiations past.

The end game for the MLB/ownership group has not changed. They want the profit sharing system rigged in their favor, as it was in the last CBA, a CBA that saw revenues increase by almost 80% and player salaries increase by 12% in comparison over that timeframe. They don't want to give that up, they don't want to change the revenue sharing apparatus, they don't want to discuss the future of MLB broadcasts and the monopoly on revenues that will create for MLB teams/ownership groups.

They don't care about the universal DH, or draft lottos to help avoid tanking, or bonus money to pre-arb players, or raising the league minimum salary, or a salary floor, or the CBT thresholds, or service time manipulation fixes. They care about how they make the most money. That's always the end game for the business side of sports, which the owners are.

They know the stakes, they know what is at risk (so do the players). I've had a lot of conversations with different people from different areas of the game touching on things they fear should the season be delayed. Everyone close to the game knows the potential repercussions coming.
 
Watching Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols in their prime was amazing. However, watching the husks of their former selves this year and knowing their combined $60M salary was more than Cleveland’s entire payroll was hard to take. In contrast, the prior year’s Cy Young winner made the league minimum. The system clearly needs an adjustment…
 
Watching Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols in their prime was amazing. However, watching the husks of their former selves this year and knowing their combined $60M salary was more than Cleveland’s entire payroll was hard to take. In contrast, the prior year’s Cy Young winner made the league minimum. The system clearly needs an adjustment…

Problem is how do you fix the issue?
 
The problem isn't that players get long term contracts. Its that owners offer long term contracts. Nobody holds a gun to their heads.

Of course, if you are a fan of a team whose owner refuses to offer ridiculous contracts, you may just call the owner cheap.

A player gets an eight year contract for, lets say, $240 mil....$30 mil AAV. Although nobody says it, everybody knows that there is a likelihood that the first four years will be more productive than the last four. A more realistic way of looking at it is that the owner is paying for $40 mil of annual production for the front half, and hopes to get $20 mil annual production in the second half.

The owner knows his payroll structure can't afford $40 mil a year, so he stretches it out over eight years.

Production wise, the contract should begin at around $50 mil per year, and finish at $10 mil per year.

50-50-40-40-20-20-10-10

Instead, its closer to...

25-25-30-30-30-30-35-35 backlogged, or the opposite front loaded.
 
Baseball already has non-guaranteed contracts... The Cleveland FO loves them, they are called club options.
 
So congrats to the Cavs on their turnaround and success.
I love the question on talk radio today as to which Cleveland team is closest to a championship.
One team (the G's), is in the middle of a lockout and has been unable to make any moves to improve the lineup since last season. The payroll should also significantly increase.

So if on the 4th of July, the G's lineup looks like this:
M. Straw CF
A. Rosario 2B
J. Ramirez 3B
F. Reyes DH
J. Winker LF
W. Contreras C
I. Happ RF
B. Bradley 1B
G. Arias SS

That folks, is a helluva lineup. A contending lineup.
Is it impossible to make impact trades for those guys? I don't think so.
 
It's not impossible, only I'm not sure those are the right three names.
 

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