Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

[Bob_The_Cat]

imho.... There are more than one Lions team in the world.. more than one Tigers team.. more than one... The law has come down on same sport.. no sharing.. different sport.. not a conflict.. This is a greenmail / publicity dispute.. we'll see if it turns into a lawsuit in the next few months..

The issue is the two businesses are operating in the same city in the same class.

Plus, if the roller derby team ever sold merch or anything like that with the logos and name on it they have some protection as long as they can prove date of first use in commerce.

 

[Steve_424]

The issue is the two businesses are operating in the same city in the same class.

Same class?

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Same class?

Trademark classification. When you file a trademark, it’s not just a blanket thing that covers any use ever. You have to specify the categories or classes in which your trademark will be used to do business. As both are sports organizations, the areas of use for the trademark would be the exact same.

It can get pretty complex and expensive, because if you intend to use the mark on merchandise, you have to file for each category of apparel. That means you have to file trademarks for use individually on t-shirts, hats, bags, shoes, etc.

 

[macbdog]

Joe Torres is who I’d watch for. He is very well liked and has been protected from other organizations in the past.

Eh, not sure I want two of Joe Torre, one was enough of a prick in New York.

 

[Steve_424]

Trademark classification. When you file a trademark, it’s not just a blanket thing that covers any use ever. You have to specify the categories or classes in which your trademark will be used to do business. As both are sports organizations, the areas of use for the trademark would be the exact same.

It can get pretty complex and expensive, because if you intend to use the mark on merchandise, you have to file for each category of apparel. That means you have to file trademarks for use individually on t-shirts, hats, bags, shoes, etc.

I may be wrong but it seems significant that one is a professional baseball team and one is an amateur roller derby team. I don't think anyone is actually confused between the two.

 

[CavsFanJapan]

I'm just bummed this team is not named the "Spiders". Way too cool to pass up. The "Guardians" has really started to grow on me though.

We could nickname Evan Mobley as the "Cleveland Spider" if that helps you? LOL!!

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

I may be wrong but it seems significant that one is a professional baseball team and one is an amateur roller derby team. I don't think anyone is actually confused between the two.

When you file an LLC, you have to specify which business class you operate in. It's an identifier primarily for tax purposes, but places like banks and other institutions also use it as a way of determining risk. They are both businesses, and it doesn't matter whether they are a professional team or an amateur organization.

NAICS Code: 711211 Sports Teams and Clubs | NAICS Association

www.naics.com

711211 - Sports Teams and Clubs​

This U.S. industry comprises professional or semiprofessional sports teams or clubs primarily engaged in participating in live sporting events, such as baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, and jai alai games, before a paying audience. These establishments may or may not operate their own arena, stadium, or other facility for presenting these events.

So in all likelihood, they both have to have filed their corporations in that category. So you are trying to operate a business with the name of an existing business, in the same class, in the same city. Not going to work.

It's actually amazing that the team either didn't do their due diligence, or that they just assumed the roller derby team would cave. Pretty sloppy way to do business as a professional sports team.

 

[DCTribefan]

 

[macbdog]

Trademark classification. When you file a trademark, it’s not just a blanket thing that covers any use ever. You have to specify the categories or classes in which your trademark will be used to do business. As both are sports organizations, the areas of use for the trademark would be the exact same.

It can get pretty complex and expensive, because if you intend to use the mark on merchandise, you have to file for each category of apparel. That means you have to file trademarks for use individually on t-shirts, hats, bags, shoes, etc.

According to a prior article, it's not when you first use the name, its when you trademark it. Supposedly been the law since 2013. This would imply.that the roller derby's prior use doesn't matter, they never bothered to trademark it. And the Cleveland Baseball Club trademarked the name offshore several months prior to the announcement, well before the derby team did, too. About all the derby team can do imo is stake a claim to still use the name; I bet the Dolans allow it as long as the color and logo stay different. It's clear the team has avoided using a direct copy of the actual guardians of traffic in their logo, and that's probably why. Honestly, both are stealing the name as the city should own the name and likeness since it owns the bridge the statues are built into.

 

[macbdog]

It really is bullshit that they are allowed to keep their name. Shows the South is still backwards as hell when even Cleveland is more progressive.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

According to a prior article, it's not when you first use the name, its when you trademark it. Supposedly been the law since 2013. This would imply.that the roller derby's prior use doesn't matter, they never bothered to trademark it. And the Cleveland Baseball Club trademarked the name offshore several months prior to the announcement, well before the derby team did, too. About all the derby team can do imo is stake a claim to still use the name; I bet the Dolans allow it as long as the color and logo stay different. It's clear the team has avoided using a direct copy of the actual guardians of traffic in their logo, and that's probably why. Honestly, both are stealing the name as the city should own the name and likeness since it owns the bridge the statues are built into.

The article is not correct then, and what you're saying is incorrect, unless they have a better source of information on the topic than the U.S. Gov’t.

Click below for info

TMEP

tmep.uspto.gov

I work in brand design and development so I have to be familiar with this stuff and have field several trademarks on my own. When you file a trademark, you're filing either for 'Intent to Use' or 'Use in Commerce.'

Baseball team files under "Intent to Use"
Roller Derby files under "Use in Commerce"

So if the Roller Derby team files for use in commerce and provides proof of use in commerce prior to the Baseball Team's trademark application, the Baseball Team's trademark claim is no longer valid as long the trademark is awarded to the Roller Derby team. If the roller derby team is able to prove and provide examples of the use of the name in commerce on their trademark application, it doesn’t matter if the Baseball Team filed the trademark first.

 

[Criznit]

It is a fun pickle to follow... HOWEVER.. if it turns out..

1. Cleveland decided it could lay claim to this moniker despite knowing its previous/current "owners" did not "guard" it correctly and/or they really decided on this choice without properly vetting it's "original" user/CONFLICTS?!?!!!!
2. Are they really using their might as an all powerful sports team to knock out the little guy?? OHHHHHH THE IRONY. Shoulda stuck with Indians.
3. It's a roller derby team. How could you not have dealt with this? Really?
4. Unless you're actually a slime bag?? Take it from them before they have a chance to legally claim it, despite them already using it??? EDIT. Or even worse, challenge their claim because you have more resources/might?
5. Fucking Cleveland....

It is what it is... The Derby team WILL take a payout.. This should have been LEGALLY settled by now.

 

[Criznit]

Guardians is still a crummy name, in case they want to re-change it..... LOL

 

[Steve_424]

When you file an LLC, you have to specify which business class you operate in. It's an identifier primarily for tax purposes, but places like banks and other institutions also use it as a way of determining risk. They are both businesses, and it doesn't matter whether they are a professional team or an amateur organization.

NAICS Code: 711211 Sports Teams and Clubs | NAICS Association

www.naics.com

711211 - Sports Teams and Clubs​

This U.S. industry comprises professional or semiprofessional sports teams or clubs primarily engaged in participating in live sporting events, such as baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, and jai alai games, before a paying audience. These establishments may or may not operate their own arena, stadium, or other facility for presenting these events.

So in all likelihood, they both have to have filed their corporations in that category. So you are trying to operate a business with the name of an existing business, in the same class, in the same city. Not going to work.

It's actually amazing that the team either didn't do their due diligence, or that they just assumed the roller derby team would cave. Pretty sloppy way to do business as a professional sports team.

From the AP:

Mark Sommers, a Washington-based trademark attorney for the Finnegan law firm, said a judge would have to determine whether the Guardians name will cause confusion for fans who follow both the baseball and roller derby teams.

“If there's no intersect between the two brands, there's no likelihood of confusion,” Sommers said.

The lawsuit is likely to settle before it reaches trial, Sommers said.

“Money is a great influencer of resolving trademark cases,” he said. “The field of play, as it were, is best resolved through negotiation and resolution than a court of law.”

 

[Mr. Orange]

It’s a money grab. Like everything in this capitalist hellscape. Get it while you can…