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Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

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Can we stop this line of thinking? Literally the 3rd time I've seen it this week alone.

It is unbelievable the amount of times this gets brought up without context.
I'm obviously open to a different player to name as someone that we didn't get the normal value from. The FO is excellent in wringing the most value from players before trading/releasing them for most cases. Jesus being an example of one they didn't. Because they are excellent, there just aren't that many examples, but I'm open to using a different one to please you.
 
I'm obviously open to a different player to name as someone that we didn't get the normal value from. The FO is excellent in wringing the most value from players before trading/releasing them for most cases. Jesus being an example of one they didn't. Because they are excellent, there just aren't that many examples, but I'm open to using a different one to please you.

It's not to please me, it's just not a fitting example.

1. Where are you playing Jesus Aguilar, who was DFA'd by the Indians in 2017 as he had no remaining options, when they were coming off a World Series appearance with Santana entrenched at 1B and a recently signed Encarnacion to DH. So how do they keep him in that situation?

2. He himself has credited Milwaukee hitting coaches with revamping his approach and his swing, a big reason he in turn succeeded at the MLB level, albeit inconsistently to this point. Him staying in Cleveland doesn't guarantee he finds any of that same success, as it took a new set of eyes to further develop him. Same can be said for Gio Urshela, who the Blue Jays tore down and built all the way back up just for him to blossom with a division opponent.

These guys aren't developing in a vacuum, and teams don't operate in a vacuum. You wish everyone that ever comes through your system meets their full potential in your system, but often times guys need to be let go and go to another organization or 2 for them to become productive players. Happens all the time, and the Indians are not alone in that regard.

They also have lost 0 sleep and have 0 concern with "letting the next Jesus Aguilar go". The system only allows so many chances, and if guys can't figure it out with them and figure it out somewhere else, oh well. Self-reflect on their developmental apparatus and move on to the next set of prospects coming through.

Just frustrating that Jesus Aguilar is being used as an example of this team giving up on guys without giving them much of an opportunity when he only became successful because he went to another organization.
 
Franmil is a Boras client.

The biggest things going for a potential Reyes extension are the NL remaining DH free to keep the amount of suitors down (highly doubtful) and the fact that he, and maybe more importantly his wife, love Cleveland. He met her in Cleveland when he was in the minors with SD.
 
Still the same. Lot of motivation from both sides to get something done.

Then I'd go, in order of most likely to least likely:

Civale
Bieber
Quantrill

Think there is a good chance 2/4 get done.
Any heat regarding a TMac extension or is it still a year early?
 
The context is that there was no room for Aguilar on the active roster, but the fact remains that a prospect that should have been traded, because the FO waited too long to make a decision on him.

I personally don't mind losing Aguilar and Santander. There were legitimate reasons for what happened.

But not for the loss of Haase, and not for holding on to the likes of Zimmer and Chang....esp Chang. Since Chang was one of our top prospects in 2017, thru being top three in 2018, clear to now...

The org has brought in thirteen MIFs, and drafted/signed nineteen more.

In 2017 there was no reasonable expectation that Chang was going to play in Cleveland anytime soon, because of Kipnis, Jose, and Lindor. He wasn't even seriously considered as a util.

So, we had a 50 FV playing a premium position with no reasonable avenue to playing in Cleveland...and we didn't use him in a package to acquire a real need...a RH outfielder. Instead, we held on to him while acquiring every MIF we could get our hands on.

And, unless the FO begins to trade its overload of highly rated MIFs soon, it will be doing Chang X three.
 
....And, unless the FO begins to trade its overload of highly rated MIFs soon, it will be doing Chang X three.
Agree with this..

A minor league player is in the minor leagues for the purpose of supplying the parent club. Sentimental attachment aside.. If the parent club has surplus talent in one area.. and a dearth of talent in another.. trades are warranted. While it's contrary to MLB policy to trade draft picks, save for one type.. a notion that I fully agree with... the existing minor league clubs do have talent that can fulfill short areas.. both for deep development w/ time and those that need to contribute immediately.. that is, their done developing...

Guys to watch are everyone not named Espino Valera and Arias who have to be considered as trade candidate in only the most dire & desperate situation.. Additional names that might be added to this trio is Rocchio.. This would leave guys like:

Tyler Freeman
Nolan Jones..
Bo Naylor
etc..

"touchable" w/ respect to trades.. Thoughts?..
 
Franmil is a Boras client.

The biggest things going for a potential Reyes extension are the NL remaining DH free to keep the amount of suitors down (highly doubtful) and the fact that he, and maybe more importantly his wife, love Cleveland. He met her in Cleveland when he was in the minors with SD.
Thanks Bimbo. I appreciate the verification.
So much for Baseball Reference keeping items updated..
 
Agree with this..

A minor league player is in the minor leagues for the purpose of supplying the parent club. Sentimental attachment aside.. If the parent club has surplus talent in one area.. and a dearth of talent in another.. trades are warranted. While it's contrary to MLB policy to trade draft picks, save for one type.. a notion that I fully agree with... the existing minor league clubs do have talent that can fulfill short areas.. both for deep development w/ time and those that need to contribute immediately.. that is, their done developing...

Guys to watch are everyone not named Espino Valera and Arias who have to be considered as trade candidate in only the most dire & desperate situation.. Additional names that might be added to this trio is Rocchio.. This would leave guys like:

Tyler Freeman
Nolan Jones..
Bo Naylor
etc..

"touchable" w/ respect to trades.. Thoughts?..


I have a prospect board, and it goes...

Rocchio
Freeman
Espino
Valera
Lavistada

I dont WANT to trade any of them, but I WILL trade any of them if it means putting the best team in the AL Central on the field for the next several years.
 
It's not to please me, it's just not a fitting example.

1. Where are you playing Jesus Aguilar, who was DFA'd by the Indians in 2017 as he had no remaining options, when they were coming off a World Series appearance with Santana entrenched at 1B and a recently signed Encarnacion to DH. So how do they keep him in that situation?

2. He himself has credited Milwaukee hitting coaches with revamping his approach and his swing, a big reason he in turn succeeded at the MLB level, albeit inconsistently to this point. Him staying in Cleveland doesn't guarantee he finds any of that same success, as it took a new set of eyes to further develop him. Same can be said for Gio Urshela, who the Blue Jays tore down and built all the way back up just for him to blossom with a division opponent.

These guys aren't developing in a vacuum, and teams don't operate in a vacuum. You wish everyone that ever comes through your system meets their full potential in your system, but often times guys need to be let go and go to another organization or 2 for them to become productive players. Happens all the time, and the Indians are not alone in that regard.

They also have lost 0 sleep and have 0 concern with "letting the next Jesus Aguilar go". The system only allows so many chances, and if guys can't figure it out with them and figure it out somewhere else, oh well. Self-reflect on their developmental apparatus and move on to the next set of prospects coming through.

Just frustrating that Jesus Aguilar is being used as an example of this team giving up on guys without giving them much of an opportunity when he only became successful because he went to another organization.
There’s no doubt truth to just about everything you say. Especially the part about player development not being a linear equation. It really does take some guys longer and often requires a change of scenery. It happens.

Having said all that, the main issue being discussed is how infrequently the Indians are willing to cash in on prospect value to help the big league club. With the exception of a few trades during the 16-19 window, they didn’t go in this direction often. And they haven’t done so yet during the retooling phase, even as they need to do so has amplified with so many deals in the opposite direction and prospect depth to make it happen.

The Indians clearly prefer one type of trade. It’s fair to wonder if their aversion to the other type is a missed opportunity. Small market teams need to be good at both.

It’s not just about cashing in value before a prospect flames out, either. There’s also benefit to removing roadblocks and not constantly making roster decisions based on team control. As much as seeing a guy figure it out elsewhere sucks, I prefer that over watching Bauers on the roster for 2 months this year. Their pecking order with position players often stinks and it’s another argument for making occasional prospect trades.

The Aguilar situation has been beaten to death. I also agree he needed to leave CLE to figure things out and I also have no doubt the Indians FO hasn’t lost sleep over it. That said, I would say the same things about Tampa moving on from Willy Adames this year as well. TB found a way to help their team elsewhere when it became apparent a former top prospect wasn’t the best option any longer. They made a deal right away instead of waiting. I want to believe the CLE FO is capable of making tough decisions like that.
 
And for my finale, Ty Van Burkleo is now the longest tenured hitting coach in baseball.

There's a chance that won't last long.
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