Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

[KluberSociety]

Eh I wouldn't mind either of these guys but I don't think the age of Canha/Pham is a bad thing. The gap to plug will probably be widest next year and a decline from there would probably not be disastrous. And more importantly it means they'll be at an age discount.

 

[CATS44]

Damn, well, I'll still cling to my dream of the Guards swinging a deal this offseason for Matt Olson and his 5 fWAR, 39 HRs & 146 wRC+. Just take a look at his Baseball Savant page and admire this level of beauty:

View attachment 6649
Having said that, here are two names which fit the description of "early arb corner OF talent" that had above-average seasons at the plate in 2021 and could be feasibly be acquired.

Ramon Laureano (Oakland)
View attachment 6650
2021 Statistics (*season was abruptly ended following his 80 game suspension on August 6th)
2.1 fWAR
111 wRC+
.327 wOBA
.246/.317/.443 slash line in 378 plate appearances
14 home runs
7.1% BB rate
25.9% K rate
.196 ISO

​

- 27 years old​

- Entering his first year of arbitration and doesn't reach free agency until after the 2024 season​

- Oakland is at a crossroads as they approach a record-high payroll due to arbitration raises and could very well look to deal players like Olson, Matt Chapman and Laureano who are all arbitration eligible.​

-He still has 20 games to serve in his suspension and just underwent core surgery last week, but he would represent a significant upgrade to our current corner outfield situation and should be entering his prime years over the next three seasons of control the team would have over him.​

​

Ian Happ (Chicago Cubs)
View attachment 6651
2021 Statistics:
1.3 fWAR
103 wRC+
.328 wOBA
.226/.323/.434 slash line in 535 plate appearances
25 home runs
11.6 BB%
29.2 K%
.209 ISO

-27 years old​

-Entering ARB 2 season and will reach free agency at the end of the 2023 season​

-Although his numbers overall on the season are slightly above average, he was one of the better hitters in the sport over the past couple months with a wOBA of .361 from August to the end of the regular season.​

-The Cubs are firmly in rebuild mode and Happ only having two years left of control makes him a strong trade candidate.​

​

Considering the underwhelming FA OF market after Starling Marte and Kris Bryant (neither of which the Guardians will sign), I would prefer to see them pursuit trades for both Laureano and Happ instead of throwing money at 33 year old Mark Canha or 34 year old Tommy Pham. Let's imagine for a second that the team is able to swing these trades and sign Yan Gomes in free agency. Here's what the potential lineup could look like once Laureano returns from his suspension:

1. Myles Straw-CF
2. Amed Rosario-SS or 2B
3. Jose Ramirez- 3B
4. Ramon Laureano- RF
5. Franmil Reyes- DH
6. Ian Happ- LF
7. Josh Naylor or Bobby Bradley- 1B
8. Yan Gomes- C
9. Andres Gimenez- 2B or SS

I still refuse to abandon the Matt Olson dream, but this lineup would certainly be formidable and should allow us to contend with the strength of our rotation and enough help in the back end of the bullpen to go along with Clase.

Outside of your desire for Olson, you are getting close.

In the 2022 GM thread, Laureano is at the top of my trade shopping list. Happ is about sixth.

 

[Derek]

I have a feeling that all of you who are expecting a lot of wheeling and dealing are going to end up very disappointed.

 

[NorthCoastBias]

I have a feeling that all of you who are expecting a lot of wheeling and dealing are going to end up very disappointed.

I'll honestly be thrilled if they give Ramirez a contract extension and then just tinker around the edges with one year deals to fills gaps.

 

[avs2000]

Dolan and the FO are not going to spin their wheels this off season. They've done that for two years in order to reset the team and the finances.

Spinning wheels means going backward, like the Rockies. You either go forward, or you go backward. There is no in between.

If spinning wheels was the plan, Antonetti and Chernoff would have left for greener pastures...and more money. Tito wouldn't be trying to comeback.

Spinning wheels means losing young talent thru Rule Five this year and next.

An org in any business doesn't spin its wheels when rebranding. It does quite the opposite, by doing something to create excitement for its new brand.

Every sign...every action this FO has made over the past two years...indicates a forward moving off season.

The FO plans to put a Guardians team on the field that will make a lot of noise.

With this pitching staff I do not feel we are far away. Few holes to plug for sure. Namely the outfield.

 

[Derek]

I'll honestly be thrilled if they give Ramirez a contract extension and then just tinker around the edges with one year deals to fills gaps.

That’s exactly my expectation/hope.

Extend Ramirez and maybe one other (Bieber, Civale, Straw).

I anticipate the team attempting to fill holes with internal options. Maybe a vet on a 1 year/minor league deal.

 

[Gson]

A jose ramirez extension = a lot of eggs in one basket..

A jose ramirez extension & one or two astute trades that returns ML'ers or near ML'ers at C, 1B and OF.. would be optimal..

All can happen..

None can happen..

Planning for all of the above.. must happen..

 

[Steve_424]

Goes without saying. Do not get your hopes up for unrealistic scenarios, such as Matt Olson.

Extension or 2, early arb (or early cheap extension) or pre-arb trade for MLB level corner OF talent, 1 or 2 short term 1 year signings (think similar to Rosario) to plug a hole, and some minor league FAs in the OF, 1B, C, and RP. That is where they'll live this winter/spring, if you put a gun to my head right now.

What's the latest you've heard on Jose? Aside from him, likeliest candidates?

 

[Steve_424]

Terry Pluto noted in his article this AM that the team's end of season press conference is this afternoon.

 

[Criznit]

What's the latest you've heard on Jose? Aside from him, likeliest candidates?

Jose and and Shane are the 2 they are going after first. After that, I don't know but Bimbo might. Both Civale and Tmac make sense though and I do not see many (any) position players other than JRam I am trying hard to extend.

 

[xmasbuck]

wouldnt extend tmac at all, right now - civale, plus minus

 

[Kevalier]

I have a feeling that all of you who are expecting a lot of wheeling and dealing are going to end up very disappointed.

I don't have any illusions about how difficult is to pull off a trade in MLB, but I also don't think it's completely far fetched that the team could find a way to complete a trade for an above-average outfielder. Zack Meisel reported that they had conversations this past deadline with Pittsburgh about Bryan Reynolds and with Cincinnati about Jesse Winker, although I don't anticipate either of those players being traded this offseason.

Sure, they could end up signing Corey Dickerson to a spring training invite and have him compete with Bradley Zimmer for the starting RF job, but I also expect them to seriously explore the trade market for an impact outfielder.

 

[Montgo]

Dolan and the FO are not going to spin their wheels this off season. They've done that for two years in order to reset the team and the finances.

Spinning wheels means going backward, like the Rockies. You either go forward, or you go backward. There is no in between.

If spinning wheels was the plan, Antonetti and Chernoff would have left for greener pastures...and more money. Tito wouldn't be trying to comeback.

Spinning wheels means losing young talent thru Rule Five this year and next.

An org in any business doesn't spin its wheels when rebranding. It does quite the opposite, by doing something to create excitement for its new brand.

Every sign...every action this FO has made over the past two years...indicates a forward moving off season.

The FO plans to put a Guardians team on the field that will make a lot of noise.

The FO undoubtedly has a plan. But that doesn’t eliminate the possibility of a few more seasons like this last one. Simply put, their methodical approach doesn’t really equate to reloading quickly. It took 3-4 seasons the last time they went through a roster purge to build up a new core.

I agree 100% that they should be looking to acquire legit MLB players and stop stockpiling fringe prospects, but I’ll believe it when I see it. This FO loves operating in the margins, and it’s not always payroll driven. They’re ultra conservative and do not make decisions quickly.

If the Indians want to operate at a Tampa payroll model (which I’m fine with), they need to start being decisive in reshaping their roster as well. Tampa treats every season like a new puzzle and makes the necessary moves to get the right pieces in place. The Indians just like to collect pieces and hope one day it all comes together.

I still generally like this FO, but how they passively went about the final seasons of contention doesn’t sit well with me. The whole argument behind a lot of it was to keep an eye on the future and avoid a full rebuild. Personally, I don’t see a huge difference if they bottom out for a few years or hover around 80 wins instead. They’re still not contending or really trying to win in either scenario.

I understand the impact COVID had on this organization the past 2 seasons. I’m never one to complain about payroll. But they need to make some real trades this off-season to reshape the roster to be more competitive next year. If they continue just chasing minor upgrades, I expect next season to look a lot like this past one.

 

[N7RobBob]

And for my finale, Ty Van Burkleo is now the longest tenured hitting coach in baseball.

There's a chance that won't last.

That would be a breath of fresh air if his putrid approach and style was gone.

 

[MadThinker88]

Jose and and Shane are the 2 they are going after first. After that, I don't know but Bimbo might. Both Civale and Tmac make sense though and I do not see many (any) position players other than JRam I am trying hard to extend.

Franmil...

What current players were in the team name video reveal the most? Bieber, Jose & Franmil (each player 2 times)

Which current players had posed clips in the video (ie not game highlights/ post-game highlights)? Jose & Franmil.