Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[The Human Q-Tip]

Just curious about everyone's meaning of "backup" or "bench player." What exactly does it mean other than that the player isn't on the floor for the opening tip-off and beginning of the second half? Are there minutes limits? Does the backup always sit at the end of close games? Is he not allowed to play with four starters (if all five are healthy)?

I'm not trying to be tricky. I just think that if you told Sexton he wasn't going to be in the starting lineup but he'd be the first guard off the bench, still get his 32-35 mpg, and be on the floor close and late when appropriate, he'd be fine with it.

My issue with all this is that if you can truly play the guy 32-35 mpg -- at least half of which necessarily will be against the opponent's starters -- then why can't you just start him? If the answer is "he can't guard opposing shooting guards", then who the hell is he going to be guarding when he's out there against starters?

Saying a guy needs to be a 6th man because of flaws in his game necessarily means you can't play him the same minutes as your starters.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Using our bench to match up and to hide some of the flaws of our top players is really what we should be doing.

The problem is we can only play 5 guys at a time. So if we're regularly having to bring in a bench guy to cover for the flaws of a starter, then we're moving starters to the bench to make room for that. And generally, you don't want your starters on the bench except to rest when necesarry.

 

[inliner311]

My issue with all this is that if you can truly play the guy 32-35 mpg -- at least half of which necessarily will be against the opponent's starters -- then why can't you just start him? If the answer is "he can't guard opposing shooting guards", then who the hell is he going to be guarding when he's out there against starters?

Saying a guy needs to be a 6th man because of flaws in his game necessarily means you can't play him the same minutes as your starters.

The flaw with Sexton and Garland isn't they can't guard SGs, it's that neither can guard the opposing teams best guard. Okoro has to take that on so either Garland or Sexton then has to guard a SF. Kyrie would guard SGs all the time but he had Shump Delly, and JR taking on the task of taking on the opposing teams best guard.

Drafting Okoro at #5 plays into this problem, if he was 6'7 and was best suited to defend the best forward, we would be looking for other solutions to helping Sexton and Garland. A defensive minded backup PG would automatically help but that pushes Okoro out of the role he is suited for the best and it eats up guard minutes away from Okoro.

 

[inliner311]

The problem is we can only play 5 guys at a time. So if we're regularly having to bring in a bench guy to cover for the flaws of a starter, then we're moving starters to the bench to make room for that. And generally, you don't want your starters on the bench except to rest when necesarry.

Right but you still have to still play a 8 or 9 man rotation. We have gone further than that at some points in the season. There are bench guys who will get heavy minutes. It's picking the right players to do that. We've had starters play with the second unit, Kyrie did that when Lebron was here. Shump and Delly got about 25 minutes each a game, they both didn't play exclusively with the second unit.

We played way more lineups back then and weren't so caught up in these hockey style lineup changes. A rotation can be staggered to help mask flaws while keeping your starter on the floor. Starters don't have to share the floor all the time together. More talent allows for us to spread it out more throughout the 48 minutes of a game.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

The flaw with Sexton and Garland isn't they can't guard SGs, it's that neither can guard the opposing teams best guard.

I disagree. I believe the concern generally has been expressed as a size/length issue, not necessarily a "best" issue.

If either one of them is unable to guard a PG who happens to be better than his SG, then neither of them can start anywhere.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I disagree. I believe the concern generally has been expressed as a size/length issue, not necessarily a "best" issue.

If either one of them is unable to guard a PG who happens to be better than his SG, then neither of them can start anywhere.

If Sexton were a good defender, I'd be less concerned about his size.

Someone who basically gives up a quality possession to the opposing offense automatically is not someone I want to rely on in the playoffs.

The first step towards improving this deficiency will be Sexton actually defending a pick and roll. The two things I want to watch closely this year are the way Sexton defends a pick and roll, and if he's stopping the ball on offense. If he can defend pick and roll situations and score within an NBA offense, I'll be much more inclined to commit a significant portion of our cap to him moving forward.

 

[inliner311]

I disagree. I believe the concern generally has been expressed as a size/length issue, not necessarily a "best" issue.

If either one of them is unable to guard a PG who happens to be better than his SG, then neither of them can start anywhere.

Kyrie took on SGs because Shump and JR were tasked with guarding the best guard on the floor which was typically a PG. Teams hide their PG alot on the lesser of the two guards. If one had length and height they wouldn't be such a mismatch when they put Okoro on the best guard and Garland or Sexton has to guard a SF.

 

[foucault87]

I have a hard time seeing other teams give us enough back that we can trade Sexton. Like would you do Sexton for Siakam? Ingram? Wiggins? Harrison Barnes? I would probably do Ingram and have to think long and hard about Siakam but heck no to the other two. Guess which ones are probably being offered?

I also do not think its impossible or even unlikely that Sexton takes another leap. Not sure what it looks like, but if he is suddenly a 27-28 ppg with his same effeciency, that suddenly becomes very very hard to trade

 

[inliner311]

I have a hard time seeing other teams give us enough back that we can trade Sexton. Like would you do Sexton for Siakam? Ingram? Wiggins? Harrison Barnes? I would probably do Ingram and have to think long and hard about Siakam but heck no to the other two. Guess which ones are probably being offered?

I also do not think its impossible or even unlikely that Sexton takes another leap. Not sure what it looks like, but if he is suddenly a 27-28 ppg with his same effeciency, that suddenly becomes very very hard to trade

I don't think we get an equal player back for Sexton because of the value difference of a guard vs wing. I would rather take more shots at the draft to find players that help to make everything work. We have 10 future 2nd round picks, using those to find the unique players that mask our flaws might be a better solution.

We got to take our shots at them to find out if it can work. It does nothing to building this team out if we wait and sit on those picks. They aren't going to get us useful players through trade without taking back bad salaries.

 

[J_J]

Sexton gets better over the course of a game. He finds and exploits weaknesses. I see that quality doing him good when he does make the playoffs.

This is so true. Sexton is a player you would want in the playoffs. Someone who you can trust to make a shot or make a play when you need it. I remember many times during the season I wanted Sexton to have the ball when it was close. Imagine if we have more talented players. We are almost there. Sexton is going to shine more.

 

[Kiddo]

I think Sexton stays if we draft Mobley. then you try like heck to add another pick in the 12-18 range using Nance, future picks and maybe taking on salary. Hopefully you can snag a Kispert, Giddey or maybe even Trey Murphy with that pick.

 

[sailfish]

Sexton won’t be traded tonight, if at all. The original trade rumors came out when it was rumored that the Cavs would be taking Jalen Green. Now that they’re taking Mobley, there isn’t as much of a rush to trade Sexton. They can look for the right deal or hold onto him if it doesn’t present itself.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Sexton won’t be traded tonight, if at all. The original trade rumors came out when it was rumored that the Cavs would be taking Jalen Green. Now that they’re taking Mobley, there isn’t as much of a rush to trade Sexton. They can look for the right deal or hold onto him if it doesn’t present itself.

I expect tonight will be anti-climatic. Every mock I've seen lately is Cade, Green, Mobley, Suggs, and Barnes going 1-5 followed by Bouknight, Kuminga, and Moody in some order rounding out the top eight.

It probably goes exactly like that with no trades and no surprises. Maybe some shuffling around in the middle and late first round.

The Cavs have been waiting for years to be in this position. I doubt they would trade out of it for anything less than a "godfather" offer.

 

[BrianO']

Sexton won’t be traded tonight, if at all. The original trade rumors came out when it was rumored that the Cavs would be taking Jalen Green. Now that they’re taking Mobley, there isn’t as much of a rush to trade Sexton. They can look for the right deal or hold onto him if it doesn’t present itself.

Wasn't there talk at the trade deadline of Boston offering multiple picks for Nance?

 

[sailfish]

Wasn't there talk at the trade deadline of Boston offering multiple picks for Nance?

Not that I recall. I do remember Atlanta being interested in Nance last offseason and there were others as well, but I can't remember which teams.