Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[Lyuokdea]

Also it’s weird to me how 100% of this discussion has been about Sextons offensive fit with zero mention of the fact that he is a bad defender and his likely impact on our team defense. Does defense just not matter for thinking about whether a guy should get a $25 million contract and a lot of court time?

I believe that is literally 100% of the reason that he would fit best as a 6th man.

Like - if Collin Sexton was an average NBA defender - he'd be an All Star Already.

 

[cavsfever]

Is there a rule that if you are a "sixth man" on an NBA team that you don't need to defend? Like people aren't allowed to score on you? A special "sixth man" defense exemption?

also tired of this "sixth man" stuff...do you want him to play 30+ MPG/starter's minutes or not? If you don't, then you for sure can't pay him $20+ million.

 

[Lyuokdea]

Is there a rule that if you are a "sixth man" on an NBA team that you don't need to defend? Like people aren't allowed to score on you? A special "sixth man" defense exemption?

also tired of this "sixth man" stuff...do you want him to play 30+ MPG/starter's minutes or not? If you don't, then you for sure can't pay him $20+ million.

Are you expecting every player to be perfect?

Nearly every great team in the league has a player who comes off the bench because their defense is deficient, but they still play because they are versatile scorers who can create offense when the rest of the gameplan is out of whack.

Let's be clear though - if Sexton were a good defender, nobody would be having this discussion and we would be paying him the max because his offensive talents are valuable in this league. The question of whether he is worth $20M/year has already priced in his defensive vulnerability.

Also - I never said we need to pay him $20M a year -- I said that if he came back this year it would be a perfect situation for us to give him a trial run as a 6th man -- because that's the most reasonable position for him on a championship quality team going forward. It is entirely obvious that he's better than Goodwin/Rondo or whoever else we will be trotting out for minutes in the playoffs -- I don't see how having him out their come the playoffs could possibly be a bad thing for this team.

Then in the offseason we can figure out his value and long-term position.

 

[buzzdog]

Is there a rule that if you are a "sixth man" on an NBA team that you don't need to defend? Like people aren't allowed to score on you? A special "sixth man" defense exemption?

also tired of this "sixth man" stuff...do you want him to play 30+ MPG/starter's minutes or not? If you don't, then you for sure can't pay him $20+ million.

You act like he's an absolute lost cause defensively, like he never could and never will defend. Because he'll always be whatever he was 2 years ago, he can never change, never improve, never learn to funnel players to our bigs the way Garland has this year with better success than ever. GTFO with that paradigm.

 

[BimboColesHair]

You act like he's an absolute lost cause defensively, like he never could and never will defend. Because he'll always be whatever he was 2 years ago, he can never change, never improve, never learn to funnel players to our bigs the way Garland has this year with better success than ever. GTFO with that paradigm.

Doesn't help that Collin's numbers this year are heavily effected by the 1st 2 games of the season for the Cavs, as that makes up 1/5th of his season sample size, but Collin and the Cavs had strung together a lot of solid defensive games until he got hurt.

Team had a 100.8 DRtg with him on the floor over his last 9 games. He was going to prove he could 100% play effective team defense this year, just his season ended before he could put the sample size up that Garland has this year that has people shutting up about his defense.

 

[foucault87]

Ah yes, the thread of bad takes as usual...

 

[Peacedog]

Ah yes, the thread of bad takes as usual...

Which side?

 

[Derek]

Whice side?

I assume whatever side you’re on

 

[foucault87]

Which side?

yes

 

[Douglar]

LeBron James back in Cleveland? Should the Cavs trade Collin Sexton?

Plus, will the Cavs make any moves now that Lauri Markkanen is out? And there were a lot of questions about Ricky Rubio's expiring contract.

theathletic.com

How realistic would it be for Collin Sexton to return for the playoffs, and how much should that factor into whether to trade him? — Chris C.​

​

I don’t believe whatever slim chance he might have at returning will factor into their trade discussions. I previously wrote that the Cavs shopped Sexton last summer and couldn’t get the value they deemed he was worth. If they find something that they like, I believe they’d move him rather than hope he could be ready by April following knee surgery. It’s also an awfully big ask of a young player with zero postseason experience to play an important role in a playoff series after missing the entire season.​

​

I’ve been hard on Sexton and the Cavs’ handling of him, but I believe there is a role for him on this new-look Cavs team as a bench scorer. The question, as always, will come down to money and if the two sides can agree. I already laid out how rare it is for players in his position to sign new deals with the teams that didn’t extend them after their third year. The Cavs are likely going to be a tax-paying team starting next season. How high are they willing to go for someone who is best suited to be a bench player?​

 

[CavsKermit]

Is there a rule that if you are a "sixth man" on an NBA team that you don't need to defend? Like people aren't allowed to score on you? A special "sixth man" defense exemption?

also tired of this "sixth man" stuff...do you want him to play 30+ MPG/starter's minutes or not? If you don't, then you for sure can't pay him $20+ million.

Also, no one has explained to me why the Cavs would preemptively offer him $20M per when it hasn't been established that there's another team willing to offer him that much next summer. Like, this isn't Oprah. Sexton is entitled to what the market will pay him, no more, no less. If the the market offers more than what the Cavs want to pay, so be it. If the market offers less than what Sexton thinks he's entitled to, it's not incumbent upon the Cavs to make up the difference. That's the risk he took.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Regrding Sexton possibly trying to return this season: the guy obviously (and understandably) wants to salvage some of his value going into restricted free agency, but just plugging him back in the lineup for the playoffs after the team has been gelling without him all season would not be wise.

There would be a huge incentive for Sexton to try to play hero ball and get some limelight on him to make some club give him a sizable offer sheet. I don't think this team needs anything like that in a critical time of the season. It's just a distraction, and I'm pretty sure the FO and coaching staff know it.

If he does that, you don't play him. Pretty simple.

The advantage he has over anyone we'd acquire - who also would have to adjust to this team - is that he knows the guys, and has watched every single game. He's going to be far more familiar with what this team does both on offense and on defense than anyone we might acquire.

 

[foucault87]

If he does that, you don't play him. Pretty simple.

The advantage he has over anyone we'd acquire - who also would have to adjust to this team - is that he knows the guys, and has watched every single game. He's going to be far more familiar with what this team does both on offense and on defense than anyone we might acquire.

Why would he do that. There is zero evidence that he is a selfish asshat who is going to compromise the team just to get a bigger raise. In fact, this is against everything that we know about Collin who has always been a team first player and basketball junkie. I dont know why so many posters try to project some type of me first reasoning no a guy who has never once shown that.

 

[inliner311]

Also, no one has explained to me why the Cavs would preemptively offer him $20M per when it hasn't been established that there's another team willing to offer him that much next summer. Like, this isn't Oprah. Sexton is entitled to what the market will pay him, no more, no less. If the the market offers more than what the Cavs want to pay, so be it. If the market offers less than what Sexton thinks he's entitled to, it's not incumbent upon the Cavs to make up the difference. That's the risk he took.

I think if there is a balancing point of where you need to offer a RFA to keep him off the market and resign him. I don't know where that is with Sexton but if you low ball him or tell him to go find an offer there is always the chance someone comes out with an offer we don't want to match. Available cap space can change with offseason trades especially during draft day.

We all know that day 1 of free agency isn't the first day agents are talking to teams. I think our offer to him needs to be where his agent is hearing from teams "if we strike out with unrestricted free agents we will think about throw an offer sheet" vs teams saying "we would happily give him a offer sheet for that or more."

Offer sheets have tended to come from desperate teams that did not assess free agency well enough and decide they must use their cap space so they throw a big offer sheet so they can come away with a free agent.

 

[Lee]

Sexton's main goal is to show the league that he's worth a big offer sheet.

You don't do that as a 6th option, a roleplayer off the bench.

Exactly, Ginobili only started 30% of his games in his career. If he would of started more he might have made the HOF. Really held him back being a roleplayer off the bench for sure.