Darius Kinnard Garland

[Comeback kid]

we have built a team where Garland is on the court with three guys who basically can’t make a shot from outside of ten feet. It’s a problem. Kyrie is a much better pure scorer against engaged defenses than Garland is, same with Mitchell. Garland needs people to distribute to

Always more than one way to skin a cat. I’ll bet those 3 guys who aren’t shooters could set some cross screens on a set and then one of them could pass him the bball for a catch and shoot 3.

 

[Jordan]

It depends what you mean by better. Imo current Garland is more conducive to winning games and rings than Kyrie was. Kyrie could not floor raise and was a situational ceiling raiser. We know Garland can floor raise. Ceiling is tbd but likely

I’m high as fuck on Garland. I still think that he has all-NBA potential… but Kyrie legit won a title. Like I don’t understand how a guy that’s never made a playoff is more conducive to winning rings than a guy that actually won a ring?

 

[foucault87]

I’m high as fuck on Garland. I still think that he has all-NBA potential… but Kyrie legit won a title. Like I don’t understand how a guy that’s never made a playoff is more conducive to winning rings than a guy that actually won a ring?

I mean winning in general, not rings. I am not a championship or bust kind of guy. If you already have a really good team, Kyrie will probably increase your chance of winning the ship than Garland will. But if you have just an average team, I think Garland increases your expected wins more than Kyrie. We have seen this before with how bad the pre-LeBron teams with Kyrie were and also how the Celtics did when he was vs wasn't playing.

 

[Futuredome]

Tonight's Garland is my preferred version. Sure, he could have hit a extra 3 or made a turnover less. But it's letting the talent speak for itself and helping the best he can. Trusting Mobley so he can develop.into a top 2 option with Mitchell.

 

[Jordan]

I mean winning in general, not rings. I am not a championship or bust kind of guy. If you already have a really good team, Kyrie will probably increase your chance of winning the ship than Garland will. But if you have just an average team, I think Garland increases your expected wins more than Kyrie. We have seen this before with how bad the pre-LeBron teams with Kyrie were and also how the Celtics did when he was vs wasn't playing.

But you said “winning games and rings.” Garland, currently, has not proven anything close to the ability to help his team win rings.

He has all-NBA potential, no doubt. It would surprise me if, throughout the course of his career, Garland doesn’t make a Finals. He just had a lot to prove to get to that level.

Kyrie is insane and seemingly a pretty crummy teammate, but he’s won a ring in a series where he hit the biggest shot in franchise history. I don’t like the guy and think that his lack of effort on defense and playmaking hurts if he’s your best player, but he’s proven that he can win a ring.

 

[foucault87]

But you said “winning games and rings.” Garland, currently, has not proven anything close to the ability to help his team win rings.

He has all-NBA potential, no doubt. It would surprise me if, throughout the course of his career, Garland doesn’t make a Finals. He just had a lot to prove to get to that level.

Kyrie is insane and seemingly a pretty crummy teammate, but he’s won a ring in a series where he hit the biggest shot in franchise history. I don’t like the guy and think that his lack of effort on defense and playmaking hurts if he’s your best player, but he’s proven that he can win a ring.

Fair point. If Garland was on the same team in 2016, I am not sure we win that ring. Otoh, we may have won in 2015 and the next 7 years would have looked totally different.

 

[buzzdog]

Garland was effective tonight scoring only 13 points. Our marginal guys managed to come through, our bigs and Caris came through in a big way. We defended, slowed it down and hammered the half-court game with success. It was nice to see a team win where Darius and/or Donovan didn't have to carry the team.

 

[cavsfever]

Garland is the better player. He is way more portable. Kyrie is a better scorer but requires a very specific ecosystem to be successful. He was exactly what we needed in 2016 but in a vacuum its much easier to have success with Garlands kit. And you don't have to deal with the off court crap

The off court and locker room stuff, sure, I agree, but just in terms of their abilities Kyrie is a much better player than Garland is now. Not really a knock on Garland, Kyrie is a historically great offensive player. And Kyrie has generally been successful when he’s played consistently. The problem has been that between injuries and off court BS it’s hard to keep him playing.

 

[Cavatt]

Mobley was the better playmaker down the stretch against the thunder. He was magnificent.

Garland continues to double into traffic with no plan. Jump passes in the paint. Couple worked, but very risky and that pass right down the lane that got picked off.

Pregame Garland has an interview where he said Mitchell was in his ear telling him to be aggressive. Problem is being aggressive doesn't mean being an A1 scorer for Garland, but it appears he thinks so. He can't play like Mitchell, but he is trying to.

Needs to give up the ball faster and relocate.

His game is not about goin by 1 on 5, but he has taken the message that way. He needs to get his guys going and when the defense adjusts, shot the ball. He's trying the exact opposite and it ain't working.

Bad advice from Mitchell IMO

 

[gambler]

bitch....bitch....and just when you think its over....more bitching......very few point guards can consistently beat double coverage and thats what dg has to do when there is no love, wade or mitchell and teams can close up his lanes

going to be hilarious all this dg and jb hate once the cavs...this season....get a legit three-point shooting starting sf and get the continued spacing/depth and become ecf co-favorites.

three of the cavs best shooting 3s are out and all of a sudden dg is no good because hes going one 1 on 2 for a large portion of his minutes and his numbers take a hit

some of you guys here need to start watching tape before you make bizarre assumptions.


there is another video out there showing dg having just a half second slower release than curry but im too arsed to look for it

take out kd, harris and seth and see what what happens to kyrie.....his numbers go to shit just like dg. the talent in the nba is too deep right now even for a prime allen iverson going 2 on 1 every night and still being able to take over.

 

[cavsfever]

The problem is that we burned up basically all the trade assets we might use to get a legit three point shooting starting NBA SF in the Mitchell trade (and also traded away our own legit three point shooting forward in the process). And before that traded for Levert who is one of the most inefficient shooting starters in the NBA and also not really a SF

So I don’t understand where this legit three point shooting SF is coming from

 

[gambler]

mcdermott and fournier are right there...sure theres risk....but a whole fuk load less than taking both wade and stevens..wiht no playoff experience.... into the ecf.

the cavs imo are so good on both offense and help defense and both stevens and wade are so inferior at the starter level...that just a legit 3 point shootinng sf woulld be incredible with spacing for a team that already is one of the league leaders in the pick and roll. but maybe most importantly the addition would also eliminate okoros 10 min/game which can be an enternity in the nba...game is essentially won and lost there.

ive mentioned it before...every fukn game....jbb starts his morning with the burden of having to game-plan 15-20 minutes/game going 4 on 5 on offense.

 

[Cavatt]

bitch....bitch....and just when you think its over....more bitching......very few point guards can consistently beat double coverage and thats what dg has to do when there is no love, wade or mitchell and teams can close up his lanes

going to be hilarious all this dg and jb hate once the cavs...this season....get a legit three-point shooting starting sf and get the continued spacing/depth and become ecf co-favorites.

three of the cavs best shooting 3s are out and all of a sudden dg is no good because hes going one 1 on 2 for a large portion of his minutes and his numbers take a hit

some of you guys here need to start watching tape before you make bizarre assumptions.


there is another video out there showing dg having just a half second slower release than curry but im too arsed to look for it

take out kd, harris and seth and see what what happens to kyrie.....his numbers go to shit just like dg. the talent in the nba is too deep right now even for a prime allen iverson going 2 on 1 every night and still being able to take over.

One thing is for sure. There are no cup cake teams out there really. If you relax or don't play to the end, any team can beat you. That kind team needed to get 3 steals and 3 3s and they did it.

The thunder almost did the same thing.

 

[gambler]

One thing is for sure. There are no cup cake teams out there really. If you relax or don't play to the end, any team can beat you. That kind team needed to get 3 steals and 3 3s and they did it.

The thunder almost did the same thing.

i could be wrong but imo the okoro 10-15 minutes a game is just killing the cavs right now. as you say there are no cupcake teams out there right now so the current skillset of okoro does not have a home in todays nba and is easily exploitable

 

[foucault87]

What is this Wade slander? He is a perfect fit for our current starting 5 as a defense first, low usage, plus 3pt shooter who moves the ball and doesn't make too many mistakes and has good size too.

If we get someone better and he moves into a bench role, I'm fine with that too. But imo the SF problem is overblown. We have the guy here already.

Stevens has done a solid job filling in even given the other deficiencies in his game. He is aggressive, defends well, rebounds well, and has shown a bit more outside shooting consistency. He should be our 10th man and hes great at that role. Injuries force him to play up.


I'm not opposed to moving some combo of Levert/Cedi/Okoro/Windler and 2nds for a better wing. Fournier and McDermott maybe those guys, but if we get either, Wade and Stevens will be key to make it work given how bad those two are on D.

My bigger concern is our coaching staff will have no idea what to do with either guys since they can apparently only prep their offensive game plan in the offseason and have no idea how to adjust midseason