East is getting tough!

[TJ_4_CV31]

Pioneer 10,

I agree with your assessment to a certain degree. A combination of Marshall and Hughes is certainly better than Redd but again the league generally doesn't view Hughes straight up as the commodity that Redd is. If you compare their stats year by year, you'll see that Redd has a more efficient uptick. Redd has succeeded without the presence of a complimentary all-star. Redd was a hotter commodity than Hughes and Simmons was a hotter commodity than Marshall (for you CDT). Their respective contracts are proof of this fact. Again, this is not debatable. Redd and Simmons would command larger salaries than Hughes and Marshall leaguewide.

True you, like most everyone else, need defense. Redd would have been good enough if your interior defense was better. Like most gaurds, they need a solid defensive frontline to make up for their mistakes. Hughes will get steals in the passing lanes but he'll be no more effective than Redd in one on one situations. Bottom line...Cleveland = Better team with Redd than Hughes.

 

[d3]

Their stats were similar because redd is the only one on your team that can rebound, pass, and shoot...

 

[PIP]

the contract is a joke--- the true consensus is "REDD IS NOT A MAX PLAYER" alot of writers thought that was a joke!!!!

nobody thought jim mcllvaine (spelling) was a better player then rony seikaly, jayson williams or elden campbell at the time (even though he was paid double of what they got)

it has happened before...

 

[The Oi]

Give it up son!

 

[cavincali]

Tj for goodness sake your beating a dead horse hear.

the bucks are not good, their average at best. get over it.

 

[TJ_4_CV31]

i'm pretty sure we hammered you guys without LeBRON in one of those games(rougly by 20 points) drew gooden owns joe smith :chuckles:

and if your're gonna talk about a tanking excuse-- the cavs can use the excuse that the first meeting "WAS EARLY"..

look for more of the 40-10-10 from LeBRON this season... but with hughes on board, look for redd's numbers to " drop...

Yes you did beat us without James but all in all, 2-2 = 2-2. Nuff said.

Let's put your Hughes limiting Redd theory to the test:

Jan 14, 2005......Bradley Center

Redd......20pts 5reb 4asst
Hughes...23pts 3reb 8asst

Feb. 5, 2005.......MCI Center

Redd......26pts 6reb 1asst
Hughes...Injured

March 18, 2005......Bradley Center

Redd......26pts 7reb 2asst
Hughes...24pts 8reb 5asst

April 11, 2005.........MCI Center

Redd........35pts 1reb 2asst
Hughes.....23pts 8reb 7asst

Two observations:

1. Redd's combined scoring is over his season's average when playing head to head against Hughes.

2. Hughes had the benefit of playing alongside of two all-stars while Redd had no one near all-star caliber to take pressure off of him.

So Lebron's_Pippen,

Don't expect Hughes to limit Redd at all. Redd will be even more deadly as he has a significant talent upgrade in the starting lineup.

 

[TJ_4_CV31]

Tj for goodness sake your beating a dead horse hear.

the bucks are not good, their average at best. get over it.

Dude, do us all a favor and change that ugly avatar!

 

[aggressivestyle]

alright this is what i posted on the bucks forum.These are my opinions and a few buck fans(non homer and realistic fans) agree with me.This is after Midranger(buck fan on realgm) said he thinks the cavs are now a better team btw.

The central is the toughest division in the nba...i don't care what any1 else says. that being said bucks cavs and bulls aren't a lock to finish better than the other i believe all of us can agree with that.

Snow sucked last yr because he's a starter not a bench warmer.first 2 starts last yr he had 2 double doubles in a row plus 1 was 2 rebounds away from a triple double(10pts 10ast 8 rbs) so he can still play. Plus factoring a new system.

This brings me to the point that bulls might be better than the cavs or the bucks because the players know the system and the cavs aren't gonna have the same system and i doubt the bucks will as well because of the offseason moves. Which means this yr might be a learning yr and i don't think either team will make it out of the first round but believe both teams has a shot making the playoffs tho.

Who care who had the best offseason. Maybe the bucks did or maybe the cavs did but does it really matter? i don't think it does at all and it's a stupid arguement! both teams did what they can do and thats all that matters.

Cavs have atleast 3.5 mil left assuming the cap is at 49 mil and it could be slightly higher than that tho. So that should be enough for a back up pg or saras.

don't bash me because i think that the cavs or bucks might not make it out of the first round because i truely believe that it will be a growing yr for them.Basketball is a team sport and bucks and cavs have alot to prove.

Heres a reply from 2 respectable bucks fan.

I agree you have to give the nod right now to the Bulls just for continuity's sake. Who knows, the Bulls could suck this year if they lose Chandler/Curry but it'd be a shock if Chandler left.

Good post. I agree with your points, especially the one about debating who had the better offseason. We both did great, and Cleveland is looking to improve yet again as it sounds like Sarunas is all but a done deal. I questioned the Larry Hughes signing because he didn't fulfill the shooting prereq that you guys needed so badly (and I also feel he will be less effective next to LeBron), but then you guys go out and get Marshall and now Sarunas. You guys did great, I think the Bucks did great. I agree though that the Bulls will likely top both our teams assuming their core stays together (Curry and Chandler retained). Both the Bucks and Cavs will take time to gel with so many new additions, new coaches and systems, and with higher expectations. Bulls are going to come out the same team with improved and developed players.

again it's great that some of the bucks and cav fans are very optimistic! but don't be 2 surprised if niether team makes it out of the first. Buck fans don't be surprised if they don't make it in the playoffs. After all winning just 40 games is a dramatic improvement from last yr. for you guys and you do have a few players that are part of your main core that hasn't played much or hasn't played at all. I still think the bucks will surprise and turn alot of heads. In a yr or to i believe that these 2 teams will be contenders in the future.

bucks 43-39,40-42
cavs 45-37,43-39

those are my best scenerios and worst scenerios for each team. I'm giving the nod to the cavs for a few reasons and i have brought up 1 above.

1.Cavs have no rookies or players that haven't played much as their main core.
2. Bucks have the depth but you also gotta remember that they have a few starters on the bench and i doubt mason would like being on the bench when he showed he is a starter in this league. Effects chemistry. More below on this.

3. Lebron hughes,Z >Redd,Simmons,Bugot
A. Chemistry is alittle better for the cavs. Redd,Simmons,Bugot never played 2gether b4. Lebron and Z has and they are 2 of the 3 main threats.
B. 2 All-Star and a borderline all-star vs 1 all-star and a good role player also a rookie.
C. Cavs are a bit older.

those are a few reasons why i think the cavs might do better than the bucks but who knows...Injuries can be a factor as well as a few other things. But i'll slightly give the nod to the cavs. If you disagree then you disagree if fine by me. I actually applaud fans that are very optimistic whether it's a bucks fan, yankees fan or laker fan even a cavs fan.

 

[TJ_4_CV31]

Those are solid takes Agressivestyle. Realistically, I can see the Bucks, Cavs, and Bulls being seperated by only 3-4 games by season's end. I think ultimately they (along with Det, Ind, Mia, NJ, and Philly) will all make the playoffs. Making it to the second round will depend on matchups, not which team is perceived to be better than all others or what type of off-season they had.

I think:

Milwaukee can advance against Indy, Cle and Chi and would rather not see Det or Philly. (Mia is a given for everybody)

Cleveland can advance against Chi, Milw, and philly and would rather not see Det, Indy, or NJ

Chicago can advance against NJ, Cle, and Milw and would rather not see Indy, Det, or Philly.

The bottom line is the East is going to be extremely competitive and a lot of teams including Cle, Mil, Mia, and NJ are going to have to adjust to new personel. Det, Mia, and Indy are a cut above. Everyone else will have to prove it!

 

[cavincali]

astyle your saying that the cavs are only 2 games better than last year. thats really really weak bro.

 

[aggressivestyle]

hey it could be better than that but i think 45 games will get us in the playoffs.I also has stated last season the cavs was gonna win 42 games but has a chance to win atleast 45 games. I believe this yr 45 games is more realistic but 48-50 games isn't out of the question.

also to add that the east has gotten stronger so winning 42 games will be alot harder this yr then it was last yr and the yr b4 that and the yr b4 that. Winning 45 games is a improvement with a new system,new players and such.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

It's all about LeBron James......

The Cleveland Cavaliers are LeBron James team, and IMO The King is the greatest player in the NBA right now. There is a reason why LeBron has "Chosen One" tatooed on his back. There is a reason LBJ went #1 over Dwane Wade and Carmelo. I would not trade LeBron for Redd, Simmons, and Ford; for B Wallace and Hamilton; for Artest and Jermaine Oneal; for Duncan, KG, or an aging Shaq. He is only 20 and will burn the record books. The Lord sayeth: thall shall not covet thy neighbors Bron.......

And who is better to complement The King: Redd or Hughes? LeBron does it all, and who better to complement him than another great all-around player. Hughes is a better fit with LeBron, better than Redd or Allen. They are the core of the Cavaliers, and it is ferocious!!! The two lions will dominate the court!!!

I believe in Hughes and LeBron.......If anyone can name a better twosome id like to hear it?! (I know they haven't actually played together yet, but everyone will soon see).........

 

[Troy Wingate]

Right now on paper, they're probably isn't a better tandem, and putting theirs stats from last season together, they probably are the best tandem. But they just have to prove it on the court, so until then, it may be safe to say that the likes of:

Duncan/Ginobili, Shaq/Wade, Kidd/Carter, Billups/Hamilton are betters combo's RIGHT NOW than LeBron/Hughes. But that's only until the season starts. Then LeBron/Hughes are BY FAR the best 1-2 punch in the NBA.

 

[TJ_4_CV31]

C'mon Troy. Anything involving Shaq and Duncan (and maybe even Amare) is far superior to what the rest of the league has to offer. I'd trade my entire roster for Amare and Nash. Not to mention Shaq and Wade.

 

[Style]

Big moves won't turn up the Heat enough
Posted: August 9, 2005
Sporting News

In the course of a day last week, the offices at AmericanAirlines Arena became so hectic, so overheated with activity that word is three of Pat Riley's hairs came out of place. That's the price you pay when you agree to give Shaquille O'Neal $100 million and you acquire three starting-caliber players for Eddie Jones and a pair of spare parts. And you do it all with time for a nap before dinner.

Despite the flurry of activity that brought Antoine Walker, Jason Williams and James Posey to Miami, though, a frosty fact hangs over the Heat: It's hard to envision Miami getting much further than it did last season, not with the Pacers back at full strength, not with the Pistons preparing to add veteran help off the bench and not with the Cavaliers having such a bang-up offseason. The Heat still has one more shot to add talent with its full midlevel exception, and how it uses that money could be a make-or-break decision.

Miami's plan calls for Williams to play point guard, with Dwyane Wade at shooting guard, Posey (or, possibly, a player to be signed) at small forward, Udonis Haslem at power forward and O'Neal in the middle. Walker would be the sixth man. That's a better lineup than last season's, and with O'Neal heading into the twilight of his career, there's no doubt the Heat must do all it can to win now.

But it won't be good enough to win the East, even in the unlikely event that the addition of Walker and Williams -- known as much for boneheaded antics as for their talent -- creates no chemistry problems. The Heat sorely is lacking in 3-point shooting. Williams and Walker are very willing to take 3-pointers, but, mind you, that's much different than being able to make 3s. Williams is a career 31.5 percent shooter from beyond the arc, and Walker is at 32.6 percent. O'Neal is at his best when he is surrounded by quality perimeter shooters. The Heat has none.

Miami also lacks the backcourt defense to stop the likes of Detroit's Chauncey Billups and Richard Hamilton, who killed the Heat last postseason. If Cleveland goes with a big backcourt of Larry Hughes and LeBron James or if the Pacers go with Jamaal Tinsley and Ron Artest, the Heat will face similar problems.

Miami hopes adding Williams will induce the team to run more. But Williams' reputation for running the fast break is overblown, thanks to his trick-passing past. He's turnover-prone and prefers to pull up for jumpers rather than attack the rim. Besides, no team with a big lug such as O'Neal in the middle truly can be a running team.

Ultimately, even with all the tinkering the Heat has done, Miami's championship hopes will rest with the same thing they did last season: health. The Heat will need the cosmic forces of injury to nip other top teams in the East and clear a path to The Finals, much as injuries to Wade and O'Neal torpedoed the Heat's chances at beating the Pistons last season. The flood of early-August personnel moves was nice but not enough.

Sean Deveney is a staff writer for Sporting News. E-mail him at sdeveney@sportingnews.com.

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