Ex Indians update

[jup]

Lots of sour grapes from guys who weren't good enough, or representatives of the me generation.

Lots of ingratitude, too.

The Indians under the Dolans, Shapiro, Antonetti, Chernoff have a certain culture, a protective culture, a nourishing culture...and most importantly...a winning culture.

Those that buy in are part of it. Those that don't, don't stay long.

Not everybody fits, but the ones that do end up winning a lot of baseball games.

I've been around a lot of athletic teams. The ones with the same types of culture win, but there are always those individuals that feeled restrained by the very things that lead to all that success.

Oh @CATS44.

Sour grapes, me generation, not good enough, ingrates - man, what a litany for shading peoples character. But this part

Those that buy in are part of it. Those that don't, don't stay long.

I really take exception to.

Naquin, Bauer and Tomlin played out there entire arb years in Cleveland and will have significant post Cleveland careers. I suspect Plutko will reach free agency. Anybody that thinks players making it to free agency in the BIG leagues can be qualified as "not good enough" is .... (and I won't post a pejorative because a personal attack is not my point).

If they weren't "good enough" @CATS44, why did they spend that many years in Cleveland. The Indians could have dumped them at anytime. These are SUCCESSFUL ball players, ones that most "normal" folks could only hope to emulate in the area of athletics. And to try to sell them short is ... short sighted at best.

Making it to the big leagues is HARD. Sticking in the big leagues is WAY HARDER. Especially this day and age where the recruitment process is WORLDWIDE, given 60 or so years ago it was still prominently domestic. You also have a dramatic population increase over that period increasing the genetic pool to draw from dramatically.

You can reminisce about "the good old days" as much as you want, but it is UNDISPUTEDLY harder to make it as a big league ballplayer today then it ever was in the past. And to categorize any big league ballplayer that has/will acquired enough service time to get to free agency as "not good enough" is ...

 

[mopete12]

does anyone know how much we were gonna have to pay naquin to stay with us?

MLB Trade Rumors had is arbitration estimate between $1.8-2.4M. His deal with the reads was for $1.5M.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Hopefully Cesar is starting to heat up

Edit: wrong thread

 

[xmasbuck]

MLB Trade Rumors had is arbitration estimate between $1.8-2.4M. His deal with the reads was for $1.5M.

thanks mo, that's what I was thinking, but wasnt sure -
one more year of arby for him after this season

 

[DCTribefan]

MLB Trade Rumors had is arbitration estimate between $1.8-2.4M. His deal with the reads was for $1.5M.

Wasn’t the the deal with the Reds a minor league deal?

 

[sportscoach]

Wasn’t the the deal with the Reds a minor league deal?

Originally with a certain number (likely the 1.5 mil) as the guarantee if he made the club with maybe incentives as well, but I don't remember all the little details.

 

[Criznit]

Wasn’t the the deal with the Reds a minor league deal?

Basically Naquin got the exact same deal we gave Gamel.

 

[xmasbuck]

Wasn’t the the deal with the Reds a minor league deal?

yes

 

[Lee]

Hopefully Cesar is starting to heat up

Edit: wrong thread

A year too early.

 

[Lee]

Basically Naquin got the exact same deal we gave Gamel.

Can we change our minds and Give that deal to Naquin instead?

Mulligan?

 

[CATS44]

Oh @CATS44.

Sour grapes, me generation, not good enough, ingrates - man, what a litany for shading peoples character. But this part

Those that buy in are part of it. Those that don't, don't stay long.

I really take exception to.

Naquin, Bauer and Tomlin played out there entire arb years in Cleveland and will have significant post Cleveland careers. I suspect Plutko will reach free agency. Anybody that thinks players making it to free agency in the BIG leagues can be qualified as "not good enough" is .... (and I won't post a pejorative because a personal attack is not my point).

If they weren't "good enough" @CATS44, why did they spend that many years in Cleveland. The Indians could have dumped them at anytime. These are SUCCESSFUL ball players, ones that most "normal" folks could only hope to emulate in the area of athletics. And to try to sell them short is ... short sighted at best.

Making it to the big leagues is HARD. Sticking in the big leagues is WAY HARDER. Especially this day and age where the recruitment process is WORLDWIDE, given 60 or so years ago it was still prominently domestic. You also have a dramatic population increase over that period increasing the genetic pool to draw from dramatically.

You can reminisce about "the good old days" as much as you want, but it is UNDISPUTEDLY harder to make it as a big league ballplayer today then it ever was in the past. And to categorize any big league ballplayer that has/will acquired enough service time to get to free agency as "not good enough" is ...

If reaching free agency is your definition of success at the highest level of baseball, I can't help you.

There are literally scores of players who reached free agency this year.

Plutko wasn't good enough to pitch for Cleveland, or any first division team. Thats why he's not here, not because he somehow got mistreated here. If he's your example....

Naquin couldn't stay healthy, and never figured out how to hit pitches in the upper half of the zone. That's why he's not here, not because he was mistreated here. If he's your example....

If you take exception to the idea of a winning culture, a proven way of running any kind of successful enterprise...including a professional baseball organization...thats on you. And guess what? The Indians organization, which you have spent so many years denigrating, has scoreboard. They've been successful for a long time, and that success didn't begin with your BFF, and it seems to be doing fine without him.

 

[thestatman]

If reaching free agency is your definition of success at the highest level of baseball, I can't help you.

There are literally scores of players who reached free agency this year.

Plutko wasn't good enough to pitch for Cleveland, or any first division team. Thats why he's not here, not because he somehow got mistreated here. If he's your example....

Naquin couldn't stay healthy, and never figured out how to hit pitches in the upper half of the zone. That's why he's not here, not because he was mistreated here. If he's your example....

If you take exception to the idea of a winning culture, a proven way of running any kind of successful enterprise...including a professional baseball organization...thats on you. And guess what? The Indians organization, which you have spent so many years denigrating, has scoreboard. They've been successful for a long time, and that success didn't begin with your BFF, and it seems to be doing fine without him.

Naquin struggled with high heat but he smashed the shit out of everything below the waist. Defensively, top three throwing arms in all of baseball and always in the top five in outfield assists when healthy.

Way better player than you make him out to be.

 

[cliffdawg]

Naquin stats would be different if he was here, we have played the White Sox’s a million time’s already .....Best starting pitchers so far in baseball, and not to mention all the lefty’s we have faces......

 

[BimboColesHair]

Takes 2 to tango.

Naquin didn’t want a minors deal to stay in Cleveland...

 

[CATS44]

There is always that caveat...when healthy.

And healthy is the biggest caveat of all.

Naquin is a career average hitter (103 OPS+) who has not had 300 PAs in a season since his rookie season.

His career OPS vs lefties is .676.

He is exactly the player I have said he is.

Platoon corner OF who can't hit lefties and has never been able to stay healthy.