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Francisco Lindor, Carlos Carrasco Traded to the Mets

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Giminez reminds me of a certain 3b/2b/ss we antsy have here. Excellent baseball instincts, weak bat, plus defender. We just got to have him start 'training' with Edwin Encarnacion in the off-season, change his launch angle and add some power.
maturing, physically/mentally, is what is coming with this young 3b/2b/ss...

Here are a few scouting reports that may define, at least partially, why CA/MC made the choice to act now:





Luis Rojas.. an old school type manager has stated on several occasions that Gimenez is a throwback type of SS.. He's glove first.. has worked on his speed and will impact the ML club that relies on pitching and defense to win..

I'd take this kind of glove at SS.. all day, every day.. and it's been stated by virtually every scouting report and "eyes on" report that this is a kid who can flat out hit. Not Frankie Lindor/30 home run power.. but still more than a banjo hitting slappy side kick..

Thoughts?
 
Amed Rosario: Should be better than what he's shown.. but.. it's what to expect from guys who are at the ML level when they should be riding a bus in AA.. The most complete analysis that may define what Amed Rosario is/will become is highlight by this "copy and paste" from a Fox Source:

Size/Build

Rosario is a right-handed hitter and thrower who is listed at 6'2″ and 190 pounds. He could be up to around 200-210 at this point, but it's all in very good build for certain as he carries minimal excess in the middle of his body.

Hitting

Contact (60) – Even in his times of struggle coming up, Rosario has shown a solid ability to put the bat on the ball, though with a fairly aggressive, contact-oriented approach.

With the added strength he showed before the 2016 season, Rosario was able to make more meaningful impact with the baseball, which turned many bloopers and light line drives into scorching hits that found gaps.

Rosario's swing is quick through the zone and has minimal load, and his bat path should produce a ton of line drives as he makes solid contact.

Power (45) – While he added strength and added in extra base hits at a rate not seen previously in his career, Rosario does still have a very line-drive oriented bat path.

His swing is not built for loft, and to generate the type of loft that would be required for him to get to 15-20 home runs, he'd have to alter his swing enough that he could end up costing himself in the contact strength he has currently, so he'd probably be better off playing for the gaps rather than changing anything just to generate fantasy stats.

Eye (50) – This really is the key area of improvement that I still see with Rosario. His contact-led approach at the plate has been successful for him, wildly so in 2016.

The problem with that approach, however, is that he has never really developed solid pitch recognition nor zone recognition, though the former is certainly ahead of the latter.

I'd see Rosario needing to do some work in this area for him to have a solid batting average in the major leagues, as MLB pitchers will be able to exploit his aggressiveness more than minor league pitchers have been.

More from Call to the Pen

Base Running/Fielding

Speed (60) – What I found most intriguing of Rosario's strength increase in 2016 is that it very likely helped his speed, not hindered it.

Rosario has always been a guy with plus speed at the top end, but almost an awkward first few steps in getting there previously, so he struggled in base stealing, and even sometimes in the field, due to some quickness struggles.

The added strength he had coming into 2016 did not diminish the top end speed he had and seemed to allow him to iron out his first few steps and make them more explosive, allowing him to really accelerate out of the box and on the base paths.

While I still would say his base stealing instincts are average or even a touch below, he can run well for sure.

Defense (70) – The carrying tool for Rosario all along has been his absolutely elite defense. While he had some seeming issues with first-step quickness before his strength gain, he had such smooth movements afterward that he easily handled anything hit his way and then some.

He has tremendous range and his hands are incredibly soft as he handles balls and throws. There's really little not to like about Rosario defensively, and he will very likely jump quickly to the upper levels of defensive shortstops in the league once he gets to New York.

Arm (70) – This is an area where I see some scouting disagreement on. In my views on Rosario, the arm is a definite plus-plus tool.

I've seen others grade as low as a 60 on his arm (which is still a plus arm grade, not a bad thing by any means), but when I've seen him make deep throws with power and accuracy so consistently, especially this season with his added physical strength, I just cannot see anything but a pure 70 on it.

MLB Player Comp

Before the added strength, I really thought Rosario and Elvis Andrus were almost perfect comps due to their similar plate discipline profiles and defensive skill sets.

As I look at them now, Rosario has physically developed to look very similar to Xander Bogaerts. I do believe their offensive profiles will be different, with Bogaerts being a guy who hits for more power over the fence and Rosario having more speed, but they are similar physical players.

Rosario's probably best considered as a guy with Andrus' skills on offense and defense while boasting the physical frame of Bogaerts, which is a pretty impressive thing to consider.

The next Xander Bogaerts w/ Elvis Andrus defensive skills.. would be mostly exciting.. if it weren't for the actual performance on the field.. in an organization that, for lack of a better way of describing it, doesn't take the best care, the mentoring custody and limiting the exposure to possible failure of their best prospects. We shall see..
 
Comps being stated for Josh Wolf: Walker Buehler:

"We saw him about nine different times,” scouting director Marc Tramuta said. "And in seven or eight of those (times), guys came away saying this guy was going to be a pure strike-thrower.”

The 6-foot-3, 170-pound Wolf has drawn comparisons with the Dodgers' Walker Buehler for his build and mannerisms.

"Buehler is not the most physical guy, but he’s very athletic and very twitchy and loose,” Tramuta said. "I thought this kid, he kind of reminded me of how I saw Buehler in high school, and now he throws 100 (mph) with plus stuff. That’s kind of what I thought when I saw (Wolf).”

Comps being stated for Isaiah Greene: Michael Brantley or Garret Anderson.. Smooth and advanced approach make this speed merchant, highly athletic future CF'er a possible ML'er for years and years. He'll not see the shores of lake Erie until the closing weeks of the 2023 season..

This is a good kid.. with a bright future.. Any team would be thrilled to have this kind of prospect in their system...
 
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Hey guys, Mets fan here. Just wanted to chime in on this deal.

First off, I totally feel for you guys with the ownership situation. Mets fans have been in jail for over a decade now ever since our previous owners got mixed up a Ponzi scheme. We similarly lost our beloved franchise SS Jose Reyes to the Marlins of all teams. We didn't even attempt to re-sign him.

On to the trade...I'd be lying if I said the deal stung from a Mets fans perspective. It didn't. I'm fairly surprised the Mets got the deal they got, especially once I found out Carrasco was also in the deal. I thought we'd at the very least have to give up one of our top 3-4 prospects in addition to Gimenez.

I think Andres Gimenez is a really nice get for you guys. Mets fans absolutely loved this guy when he made his debut last year. Extremely smart player. Great instincts. I usually don't use those terms because they sound very old school and usually describe a player who sucks, but not in this case.

I think he can match Lindor's defensive and base running in 2021. He's that impressive when it comes to those 2 aspects. offensive potential is the biggest question with him. His statcast metrics blew in 2020, I'm aware. I think it was more about him being a young hitter and expanding the zone and making weak contact on pitches he couldn't do much with, which weighed those down. He has some surprising pop in his bat. 2 of his home runs were to the opposite field and one was a rocket pull shot at 109 MPH off the bat. I don't think he's ever gonna light statcast up or hit 20 homers, but he's not a slap hitter either. I think he's a safe bet to be worth 2.5-3 WAR this upcoming season, mostly on the weight of his defense and base running.

Amed is a former consensus top 5 prospect(Keith Law had him #1 at one point). Great raw talent. Great Speed. Good athlete. Excellent power to right center. He can't hit righties for shit. No plate discipline. Can't lay off breaking balls. He does pretty well vs lefties, even last year when he was dreadful offensively. His defense has been a huge disappointment thus far.

I think if you platooned Gimenez/Rosario at SS you'd actually have a nice platoon, although Amed's defense at SS has been a disaster. I'm not sure what your plan for him is.

Good luck guys. I hope you guys get some good value out of this deal. Gimenez will be a keeper, no doubt.
Sounds like what I thought about Rosario without fully knowing about him. Two things I hate about this trade is his inclusion and Carrasco's inclusion. Rosario sounds like yet another attempt to cheaply patchwork a MLB team for the upcoming year. But then you throw in Carrasco which says you are really struggling financially and can't spend any money. So why not just go for more prospects or maybe trade Carrasco to another team for more prospects? You mean Lindor for Gimenez, Wolf, Greene was not a trade that we could pull off?

I really really hate "rebuild on the fly" or "retooling" for small markets. It will likely lead to a full rebuild eventually because they don't have or won't spend the money to patch holes.
 
Comps being stated for Josh Wolf: Walker Buehler:

"We saw him about nine different times,” scouting director Marc Tramuta said. "And in seven or eight of those (times), guys came away saying this guy was going to be a pure strike-thrower.”

The 6-foot-3, 170-pound Wolf has drawn comparisons with the Dodgers' Walker Buehler for his build and mannerisms.

"Buehler is not the most physical guy, but he’s very athletic and very twitchy and loose,” Tramuta said. "I thought this kid, he kind of reminded me of how I saw Buehler in high school, and now he throws 100 (mph) with plus stuff. That’s kind of what I thought when I saw (Wolf).”

Comps being stated for Isaiah Greene: Michael Brantley or Garret Anderson.. Smooth and advanced approach make this speed merchant, highly athletic future CF'er a possible ML'er for years and years. He'll not see the shores of lake Erie until the closing weeks of the 2023 season..

This is a good kid.. with a bright future.. Any team would be thrilled to have this kind of prospect in their system...
What's the over/under that we received another Walker Buehler and Michael Brantley with Wolf and Greene? Yet they're not in our top 10 and some don't have them in our top 20. We must have a bunch of Trouts, Lindors, and Biebers in the system. In all seriousness, they are decent to good prospects, but they're young and there is a lot of projection. Hopefully they realize their full potential for us.
 
What's the over/under that we received another Walker Buehler and Michael Brantley with Wolf and Greene? Yet they're not in our top 10 and some don't have them in our top 20. We must have a bunch of Trouts, Lindors, and Biebers in the system. In all seriousness, they are decent to good prospects, but they're young and there is a lot of projection. Hopefully they realize their full potential for us.
Slim to none would be the chances.. over / under isn't quite apropos....

The comps are almost always a lot of star gazing hyperbole... but.. they give the casual fan a "simplified view or insight" into how a player is perceived or appears to someone who's job it is to find the next Trout, Lindor and/or Bieber.

I Mean Really.. Amed Rosario as a clone of Xander Bogaerts? Why would the mets trade him if this was the case?..
 
Slim to none would be the chances.. over / under isn't quite apropos....

The comps are almost always a lot of star gazing hyperbole... but.. they give the casual fan a "simplified view or insight" into how a player is perceived or appears to someone who's job it is to find the next Trout, Lindor and/or Bieber.

I Mean Really.. Amed Rosario as a clone of Xander Bogaerts? Why would the mets trade him if this was the case?..
Hell, if either Rosario or Gimenez was all that why would they trade for Lindor. Someone here even mentioned how Gimenez is as productive as Lindor and used their 2020 stats to verify it. Rosario is just waiting to bust into stardom and we evidently have the next Walker Buehler and Michael Brantley in our system now too.
 
Hell, if either Rosario or Gimenez was all that why would they trade for Lindor. Someone here even mentioned how Gimenez is as productive as Lindor and used their 2020 stats to verify it. Rosario is just waiting to bust into stardom and we evidently have the next Walker Buehler and Michael Brantley in our system now too.
By that logic, every trade ever made was won by the veteran buying team.

A new owner looking to win the offseason by dropping names is a valid argument. Our FO has a trend of taking advantage of GMs or owners that feel the need to make a move. Preller, obviously. Reds tried to win when they really weren't equipped to, and now they're shedding salary. Now Cohen. Those are the best teams to trade with, because they make irrational, short term (at best) moves.
 
By that logic, every trade ever made was won by the veteran buying team.

A new owner looking to win the offseason by dropping names is a valid argument. Our FO has a trend of taking advantage of GMs or owners that feel the need to make a move. Preller, obviously. Reds tried to win when they really weren't equipped to, and now they're shedding salary. Now Cohen. Those are the best teams to trade with, because they make irrational, short term (at best) moves.
I'd say it was a bit more than a "name drop" and any team in the league that can get Lindor and Carrasco are better for it. The Mets sent Gimenez and Rosario away and replaced them with Lindor and Carrasco, and they are a better team by doing so. Their more marketable not because the names Lindor and Carrasco are popular, but because they are top performers.

Not every trade made by this FO is related or even made for the same reasons so comparing them is superficial IMO, and suggesting that MC and CA took advantage of the Mets because they wanted to "make a move" is laughable.

It's over. What's done is done, and I'll be hoping that the players returned to Cleveland supersede any expectations I might have. That doesn't mean I can't be disappointed as a Cleveland baseball team fan.
 
Again it should be beaten to death, but if there is no contract extension with Lindor, the Mets will recoup one of their "prospects" traded for Lindor and Carrasco assuming Lindor rejects a qualifying offer.. So the trade is really 4 for 3...

We got fleeced.. But the tribe (like many other teams in the ML) is a business first and a baseball team second. Unless they open the books (yeah right) I will never be convinced that the financial situation is as dire as ownership presents. I have come to expect decisions like these, but we really should of been able to do a bit better in my mind. Oh well, guess we will see what we have in a few months.
 
Again it should be beaten to death, but if there is no contract extension with Lindor, the Mets will recoup one of their "prospects" traded for Lindor and Carrasco assuming Lindor rejects a qualifying offer.. So the trade is really 4 for 3...

We got fleeced.. But the tribe (like many other teams in the ML) is a business first and a baseball team second. Unless they open the books (yeah right) I will never be convinced that the financial situation is as dire as ownership presents. I have come to expect decisions like these, but we really should of been able to do a bit better in my mind. Oh well, guess we will see what we have in a few months.
..with less than one year to go until he's a free agent, Lindor, who has vowed to become a free agent.. has nothing but $$$ to gain by waiting..

...unless he sees the CBA as a coming work stoppage & needs to 'get his' before the flow of $$$ stops while the millionaires argue with the billionaires over thousands of dollars..

...unless he sees the hugely negative effect of COVID on baseball salaries going into a second year of "..no fans in the stands..." Under that situation, signing a huge contract NOW would be to his benefit..

...otherwise, Lindor will become a FA.. & the mets will have traded four blue chip prospects, one a top five in all of MLB, for Carlos Carrasco and a one year, penthouse in New York/Expensive rental of Lindor..

Sort of what the CLEFO wanted to avoid.. and did so while taking on the cost of losing Carlos Carrasco..

We'll see..
 
Again it should be beaten to death, but if there is no contract extension with Lindor, the Mets will recoup one of their "prospects" traded for Lindor and Carrasco assuming Lindor rejects a qualifying offer.. So the trade is really 4 for 3...

We got fleeced.. But the tribe (like many other teams in the ML) is a business first and a baseball team second. Unless they open the books (yeah right) I will never be convinced that the financial situation is as dire as ownership presents. I have come to expect decisions like these, but we really should of been able to do a bit better in my mind. Oh well, guess we will see what we have in a few months.
Ok. I am going to get reamed here. But being a devils advocate.
I loved watching Frankie play here in Cleve. Imo we probably got the best 6 years of him
But he is not a 300 career hitter. Highest rbis were 92 in 2018
Awesome fielding but that will decline fairly soon. 2-3 years
I am not tying up 35 million a year for ten years for him
Maybe we could have gotten more but I would think that CA would not have walked away from more
 
Ok. I am going to get reamed here. But being a devils advocate.
I loved watching Frankie play here in Cleve. Imo we probably got the best 6 years of him
But he is not a 300 career hitter. Highest rbis were 92 in 2018
Awesome fielding but that will decline fairly soon. 2-3 years
I am not tying up 35 million a year for ten years for him
Maybe we could have gotten more but I would think that CA would not have walked away from more
Agree with this.. 3 to 4 years from now when Frankie is celebrating a birthday with enough candles on his cake to alert the local fire department.. the diminishing returns will only be surpassed by the huge salary he will be paid..

...but, it was fun watching and rooting for Frankie while he was here..
 
Ok. I am going to get reamed here. But being a devils advocate.
I loved watching Frankie play here in Cleve. Imo we probably got the best 6 years of him
But he is not a 300 career hitter. Highest rbis were 92 in 2018
Awesome fielding but that will decline fairly soon. 2-3 years
I am not tying up 35 million a year for ten years for him
Maybe we could have gotten more but I would think that CA would not have walked away from more
First off, I'm not disappointed that Lindor was traded. I don't want my favorite team to agree to any 10yr/$300M deal. Those deals are ridiculously ignorant to give any player. How many times do we need to see teams hamstrung by them? There's not a player alive worth $30M/yr IMO.

Lindor's or any other player's RBI totals are largely influenced by the rest of the lineup. Like or dislike this trade, I can't comprehend the angles used in an attempt to diminish his performances. He is the best SS in the game and his offensive output is a large portion of that.

I'll counter your assumption with I don't think we seen the best years of Lindor. He's just now entering his prime and now he is in a talented lineup from top to bottom.

Hell no CA and MC didn't walk away from "more". They did their job quite well for having no f'n leverage whatsoever. The only thing that I'll be critical of is that they waited too long to trade Lindor and Kluber before him. Had we not waited then the return for Carrasco may have been a lot better as he would not have been tied to Lindor's short term, expensive control.
 

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