Future Roster - Trade Needs

[Derek]

I have definitely evolved in my thinking on this...baseball will be a financial wasteland after this season. Conspiracy theories will abound, but free agents are going to feel the brunt of it...lots of non-tenders too. We'll see of course, but these extreme measures will not be limited to the Tribe.

I'm sure it will impact the landscape to an extent, but there is still money to be had and teams will do what it takes to be competitive.

The likely scenario is an increased gap between the big spenders and everyone else. The Dodgers certainly didn't hesitate to give Betts $365 million over the next 12 years right in the middle of pandemic baseball.

 

[LL3]

I'm sure it will impact the landscape to an extent, but there is still money to be had and teams will do what it takes to be competitive.

The likely scenario is an increased gap between the big spenders and everyone else. The Dodgers certainly didn't hesitate to give Betts $365 million over the next 12 years right in the middle of pandemic baseball.

Of course, we’ll get to see relatively soon, but even as I would have largely agreed with you up through the last month, what I now see from the economy, in addition to the baseball analysis, and feel of the trade deadline, I have begun to feel otherwise. Just because the Dodgers made that deal does not mean they might not regret it sooner than scheduled. That pool of big spenders may well shrink, too. This is brand new terrain, and if a viable vaccine is not readily available, it might get extremely ugly. I am certainly not rooting for any bad scenario, but many teams are going to mitigate their risks.

 

[xmasbuck]

to be sure the Betts deal was finalized in late July so the Dodgers had time to survey the new cover landscape. they also signed a new huge, long term deal for their cable rights in the spring - $8bil? - and I imagine they felt people, maybe more people, will be watching regardless of cover - and no, not every team can do that but the dodgers did

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

to be sure the Betts deal was finalized in late July so the Dodgers had time to survey the new cover landscape. they also signed a new huge, long term deal for their cable rights in the spring - $8bil? - and I imagine they felt people, maybe more people, will be watching regardless of cover - and no, not every team can do that but the dodgers did

Yeah, over 25 years the average they get yearly from that deal is $334 million.

If the Indians signed that deal this morning, Lindor is extended that same day.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Yeah, over 25 years the average they get yearly from that deal is $334 million.

If the Indians signed that deal this morning, Lindor is extended that same day.

Prime reason this league needs revenue sharing.

 

[xmasbuck]

Prime reason this league needs revenue sharing.

and of course, we know that aint happening (tho, some of the dodgers money ends up in some kind of revenue sharing pool?)
-
same church but much different pew - when the Dolans sold STO to Fox for $230 mil, didn't they put most of that into payroll - I seem to remember swisher signing in that time frame

 

[Criznit]

It's hard not seeing the Indian's shaving off as much as possible salary before the onset of the 2021 season. If Santana,Hand and Lindor relocate, that alone is more than a substantial cut in committed money, and will return some value with the trade of Lindor.

I normally nitpick some of the financial aspects of the team, but in this case I think it makes sense to retool on the fly while cutting a lot of payroll.. Currently that is Santana, Hand and Lindor for 2021. Maybe Santana work something out, maybe nothing changes because we are 2020 WS champs.

 

[Gson]

Couple Sandlin questions/thoughts...
Did he have a forearm strain or was it a fracture? I was recalling it as a fracture, but perhaps not.
I thought that it was quite encouraging to see Sandlin invited to the "60 man" roster, and glad that he is still getting quality intstuction and work in 2020. As Derek noted, it is never easy to have confidence in minor leaguers making the major league jump, but to this point I have been quite impressed with Sandlin...his repertoire and command being highlights to this point. We'll all probably get a better look in '21.

We have a limited/short history of being able to see Nick Sandlin on the hill. We've seen Sandlin when he's going well.. His side arm slinging motion starts with his back to first base.. This hides the ball some from left handed hitters, but, it's there. He has enough velo in his FB to be a threat.. it moves pretty well too.. It's when he's adding and subtracting off his fastball that he becomes most effective. There are always going to be times when a guy like Sandlin are going to look the part.. be the part.. and succeed in the part of a major league pitcher.. Sandlin is that kind of RP.. He's going to have some good ones.. and some not so good ones.. As an RP.. he has to be incredibly precise with his FB location even with the velo changes, to be most effective. Being shut down for the 2020 season, for him, may end up being a godsend.. If he can do some of that Bauer stuff (engineering of both strength & flexibility) to his fitness.. he might be worthy of consideration for the highest level of baseball...

I doubt the current trajectory (by the 2021 season) is realistic for him..especially considering his health and the ever improving hitters he'll need to get out..

In the last three years, starting with his time in college.. Sandlin has had to overcome sore shoulder issues as well as two forearm strains.. A minor injury history coupled with his small stature says: durability concerns..

As a personal aside.. sidewinders are like roman candles at the ML level.. they burn bright and fast.. then flame out just as fast.. Like Eli Morgan (no, he's not a sidewinder), it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see either/both of these guys make a splash at the ML level and, then, get moved in trade immediately thereafter. They're just not going to last..

Thoughts?..

 

[sportscoach]

We have a limited/short history of being able to see Nick Sandlin on the hill. We've seen Sandlin when he's going well.. His side arm slinging motion starts with his back to first base.. This hides the ball some from left handed hitters, but, it's there. He has enough velo in his FB to be a threat.. it moves pretty well too.. It's when he's adding and subtracting off his fastball that he becomes most effective. There are always going to be times when a guy like Sandlin are going to look the part.. be the part.. and succeed in the part of a major league pitcher.. Sandlin is that kind of RP.. He's going to have some good ones.. and some not so good ones.. As an RP.. he has to be incredibly precise with his FB location even with the velo changes, to be most effective. Being shut down for the 2020 season, for him, may end up being a godsend.. If he can do some of that Bauer stuff (engineering of both strength & flexibility) to his fitness.. he might be worthy of consideration for the highest level of baseball...

I doubt the current trajectory (by the 2021 season) is realistic for him..especially considering his health and the ever improving hitters he'll need to get out..

In the last three years, starting with his time in college.. Sandlin has had to overcome sore shoulder issues as well as two forearm strains.. A minor injury history coupled with his small stature says: durability concerns..

As a personal aside.. sidewinders are like roman candles at the ML level.. they burn bright and fast.. then flame out just as fast.. Like Eli Morgan (no, he's not a sidewinder), it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see either/both of these guys make a splash at the ML level and, then, get moved in trade immediately thereafter. They're just not going to last..

Thoughts?..

Have you seen Broom yet?

 

[Gson]

Have you seen Broom yet?

No.. I haven't seen him in person.. but love the name...

 

[LL3]

No.. I haven't seen him in person.. but love the name...

A clean sweep might be in our future...

 

[sportscoach]

No.. I haven't seen him in person.. but love the name...

Well watch vid on his release point. Indians didn't load up just on one sidewinder in the 18 draft, but they got Broom in the 10th who is also a sidewinder. Broom is very similar to Joe Smith when it comes to arm slot. He also was doing multiple innings in college and with us plus he keeps in the ball in the yard.

Also Sandlin in the 18 season got switched from a setup/closer to a starter while in college. I wonder how much that put on his arm as well? It's too early to say if he is injury prone or not, but 130 innings in 18 may have been too much overall for him and he felt that in 19. This year he has had a chance to rest and recover so we shall see in 21 if it was just an over worked arm since he won't ever be near that number again.

 

[TFIR]

The reason our Tribe has it right in not shelling out those crazy contracts:

In 1977, the Cincinnati Reds made a trade that seemed to ensure they would keep winning the World Series in perpetuity. The Big Red Machine had come off two of the most dominant seasons in baseball history. In 1975, they won 108 games after getting off to a sluggish start and then won perhaps the greatest World Series ever played. (Somebody — I’m not naming names — even wrote a book about them.)

In 1976, they won 102 games, led the league in literally every major offensive category (runs, hits, doubles, triples, homers, stolen bases, walks, batting average, on-base percentage and slugging percentage) and breezed through the playoffs without a loss. They were one of the greatest teams in baseball history, everybody said so. A team overloaded with future Hall of Famers (and Pete Rose). Their only flaw — if you could call it a flaw — was starting pitching.

Then in 1977, they traded for Tom Seaver.

When that happened, baseball fans around America groaned. The Big Red Machine plus Tom Terrific? It was over. Who was going to beat them now? How many more World Series were they going to win?

And the answer to that last question was: Zero.

It is so weird, looking back. When the Reds traded for Seaver on June 15, 1977, they were in second place, seven games behind the Dodgers. Seaver pitched brilliantly the rest of the year. And the Reds … well, not only did they not make up any ground on Los Angeles, they fell back and were basically out of the race by early September.

They won 92 games in 1978 but again finished behind the Dodgers. They won 90 games in 1979, which was good enough to win the division, but they were promptly swept by the Pirates in the playoffs. And that was that. The Big Red Machine was over. In Seaver’s final year with Cincinnati, the Reds lost 100 games.

This has happened other times, too. The Phillies seemed to clinch the future when they traded for Roy Halladay in 2009. They had won back-to-back pennants and a World Series. Halladay was probably the best pitcher in baseball, he would have two amazing seasons for Philadelphia. And … it didn’t matter. The Phillies made the playoffs both years but exited in the NLCS and NLDS. And then it was over.

The Tigers undoubtedly thought they were clinching another World Series run when they got Miguel Cabrera. It didn’t happen. The Angels were a consistent winner, more or less, when they seemed to wipe out the competition by signing Albert Pujols, and then again the next year when they picked up Josh Hamilton.

The point is those “put you over the top” signings don’t often work out as you might expect.

(And now Gerritt Cole and the Yankees....sucking!)

 

[Gson]

Which is what makes Nelson the most obvious choice for a LHRP.. not necessarily the most ready or the best. (because of the names listed as starters.. they won't all remain as starters) What Nelson does is throw strikes.. Nelson throws strikes with a low 90's FB and a swing and miss slide-piece.. He's better against minor league RHH's than minor league LHH's, so, that alone may make him more valuable with the three batter rule at the ML level...

Time will tell..

Time told in Nelson's first major league outing: Nelson's slider was as advertised.. a low to mid 80's two plane pitch..& he coupled it with a low 90's FB... but too many on too much of the plate.. and too many below the zone.. outside of the zone hits.. Maikel Franco's two RBI single epitomized the KC good fortune..that ball had to be a good half foot off the plate and below his knees..but.

That's baseball.. We'll see if Nelson gets another chance.. He'll always remember this outing, though..

Thoughts?..

 

[xmasbuck]

The reason our Tribe has it right in not shelling out those crazy contracts:

In 1977, the Cincinnati Reds made a trade that seemed to ensure they would keep winning the World Series in perpetuity. The Big Red Machine had come off two of the most dominant seasons in baseball history. In 1975, they won 108 games after getting off to a sluggish start and then won perhaps the greatest World Series ever played. (Somebody — I’m not naming names — even wrote a book about them.)

In 1976, they won 102 games, led the league in literally every major offensive category (runs, hits, doubles, triples, homers, stolen bases, walks, batting average, on-base percentage and slugging percentage) and breezed through the playoffs without a loss. They were one of the greatest teams in baseball history, everybody said so. A team overloaded with future Hall of Famers (and Pete Rose). Their only flaw — if you could call it a flaw — was starting pitching.

Then in 1977, they traded for Tom Seaver.

When that happened, baseball fans around America groaned. The Big Red Machine plus Tom Terrific? It was over. Who was going to beat them now? How many more World Series were they going to win?

And the answer to that last question was: Zero.

It is so weird, looking back. When the Reds traded for Seaver on June 15, 1977, they were in second place, seven games behind the Dodgers. Seaver pitched brilliantly the rest of the year. And the Reds … well, not only did they not make up any ground on Los Angeles, they fell back and were basically out of the race by early September.

They won 92 games in 1978 but again finished behind the Dodgers. They won 90 games in 1979, which was good enough to win the division, but they were promptly swept by the Pirates in the playoffs. And that was that. The Big Red Machine was over. In Seaver’s final year with Cincinnati, the Reds lost 100 games.

This has happened other times, too. The Phillies seemed to clinch the future when they traded for Roy Halladay in 2009. They had won back-to-back pennants and a World Series. Halladay was probably the best pitcher in baseball, he would have two amazing seasons for Philadelphia. And … it didn’t matter. The Phillies made the playoffs both years but exited in the NLCS and NLDS. And then it was over.

The Tigers undoubtedly thought they were clinching another World Series run when they got Miguel Cabrera. It didn’t happen. The Angels were a consistent winner, more or less, when they seemed to wipe out the competition by signing Albert Pujols, and then again the next year when they picked up Josh Hamilton.

The point is those “put you over the top” signings don’t often work out as you might expect.

(And now Gerritt Cole and the Yankees....sucking!)

all well and good, but seaver wasnt a signing, he was a trade