Ideas on how to make this team a WS competitor going forward

[CDAV45]

I'm not considering the fan base game by game. Winning solves attendance problems, if the economy is okay.

Winning 3-2 is the same as 6-5, if a team does it often enough.

This organization will not draw good crowds consistently without a potent offense. It just won’t and 90% of the fans go to see baseballs get mashed.

It’s the very reason our most recent crowds were due to Edwin and his parrot.

 

[Gson]

It's pretty depressing, but fortunately only an apocalyptic vision.

It's the holiday season.. the best time for depression.. isn't there supposed to be zombies after the apocalypse?

 

[EdMonix11]

I love when people fix the Indians attendance issues by saying "score more runs!".... as if people actually give a flying fuck about the style of baseball the Indians play.

Tito Years-- Avg. Attendance + Standings + Playoffs
2013: 19,419 2nd AL-C Made Playoffs (Hosted Wild Card)
2014: 17,746 3rd AL-C Missed Playoffs
2015: 17,361 3rd AL-C Missed Playoffs
2016: 19,650 1st AL-C Made Playoffs (World Series)
2017: 25,286 1st AL-C Made Playoffs
2018: 23,786 1st AL-C Made Playoffs
2019: 21,465 2nd AL-C Missed Playoffs (won 93 games)

Cleveland has casual baseball fans. They casually attend games throughout the Spring and Summer no matter what. And then when Fall rolls around, if the Indians are in contention, then they'll show up. If the Indians aren't in contention, then they don't show up. It's that simple. Fans will show support for a team they think will make the playoffs.

The margins aren't huge here. The Indians have had a good offense in the Francona years, top-10 in runs scored in all but two years, I believe. Fans want to support a winning Indians team in this town, that's the only factor here.

 

[Steve_424]

I love when people fix the Indians attendance issues by saying "score more runs!".... as if people actually give a flying fuck about the style of baseball the Indians play.

Tito Years-- Avg. Attendance + Standings + Playoffs
2013: 19,419 2nd AL-C Made Playoffs (Hosted Wild Card)
2014: 17,746 3rd AL-C Missed Playoffs
2015: 17,361 3rd AL-C Missed Playoffs
2016: 19,650 1st AL-C Made Playoffs (World Series)
2017: 25,286 1st AL-C Made Playoffs
2018: 23,786 1st AL-C Made Playoffs
2019: 21,465 2nd AL-C Missed Playoffs (won 93 games)

Cleveland has casual baseball fans. They casually attend games throughout the Spring and Summer no matter what. And then when Fall rolls around, if the Indians are in contention, then they'll show up. If the Indians aren't in contention, then they don't show up. It's that simple. Fans will show support for a team they think will make the playoffs.

The margins aren't huge here. The Indians have had a good offense in the Francona years, top-10 in runs scored in all but two years, I believe. Fans want to support a winning Indians team in this town, that's the only factor here.

It is what it is, but those attendance numbers for 2016-2018 are embarrassing.

 

[CDAV45]

It is what it is, but those attendance numbers for 2016-2018 are embarrassing.

Sure are! Thing is they've been "winning" since Tito showed up so why are they averaging just over 25,000 a game(best year) in a stadium capable of holding 35,000 or so. That's reduced from the original 42,000 because Shapiro wanted to make the place more fan pleasing. I personally like the changes, but it did little to help attendance.

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

Sure are! Thing is they've been "winning" since Tito showed up so why are they averaging just over 25,000 a game in a stadium capable of holding 35,000 or so. That's reduced from the original 42,000 because Shapiro wanted to make the place more fan pleasing. I personally like the changes, but it did little to help attendance.

Revenue from concessions went up, which was the point of the renovations.

 

[CDAV45]

Revenue from concessions went up, which was the point of the renovations.

I'm sure they did, and the renovations are not longer vacant seats.

 

[Benway]

The cash deficit appears to be forcing us to divest of MLB talent at a time when MLB talent is the cheapest (in terms of capital) that it's ever been.
Cash-on-hand may never have been a bigger player than it is this Winter.

And there's how the next few World Series competitors will be made going forward.

In my opinion, we will get nothing for Cookie and very little for Lindor unless we take contracts back. In order to move Hedges or Perez we will likely have to attach an asset or take worse money back. This is not a workable strategy if one aspires to compete in the World Series.

Ergo, get rich or die tryin'.

Crap.

 

[Gson]

If the Indians will trade Lindor and Carrasco.. then Jose Ramirez should be considered a trade candidate as well..

 

[Benway]

It's just sickening.

 

[CDAV45]

Well, it's time to call the Phillies and tell them they can have Ramirez, one of McKenzie/Civale, Rosario and Hedges for Bohm, Howard and Marchan. If we're cutting payroll might as well infuse some talent and Cleveland has all the leverage in a Ramirez deal.

 

[DerekG123]

Well, it's time to call the Phillies and tell them they can have Ramirez, one of McKenzie/Civale, Rosario and Hedges for Bohm, Howard and Marchan. If we're cutting payroll might as well infuse some talent and Cleveland has all the leverage in a Ramirez deal.

Nobody is giving up a talent like Bohm right now for any vet. 880 OPS and making league min. No discussion if I'm Philly.

 

[CDAV45]

Nobody is giving up a talent like Bohm right now for any vet. 880 OPS and making league min. No discussion if I'm Philly.

Doesn't hurt to ask I guess, even if you're confident the answer is no. Ramirez's OPS was 993, he's better defensively, and he switch hits. It's not like Ramirez isn't affordable, especially if they're not resigning Realmuto. I agree with you though, it's not going to happen.

 

[CDAV45]

I don't know what is more depressing, the actual trade or looking back on what I thought the return should be. Good Lord was I wrong!

 

[Gson]

The general public find the changes to be more of the same.. the indians unable to keep their star players from cradle to grave.. These include the casual fan.. the guys who might go to two games each year because they went when they were younger and they heard the Corner is a pretty cool place to hang out.. with other adults..

The more die hard fans will become depressed at some point.. but, what they're feeling now is betrayal.. Their hopes and dreams of a World Series Championship have been betrayed by the shipping away of huge stars/favorites.. and the return.. is nothing special.. or has been presented as a "losing" deal.. Lashing out, followed by depression are next on the agenda..

Knowing this and the hope that this front office continues to absolutely know what it's doing keeps the faith.. even though all evidence to the contrary is what we have at present..

Thoughts?