Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[dark2332]

Count me out on wanting Little. Three rookies is enough to incorporate. Something like this would work for me, though.

Portland gets: Kevin Love
Cleveland gets: Bad contract, Zach Collins, 2020 top-ten protected first, and a 2022 top-ten protected first.

Portland gets; Kevin Love
Cleveland gets: Bad contract, Zach Collins, 2020 second round pick, and an unprotected 2021 first

I wouldn't even say "bad" contract. In my mind, it has to be Evan Turner. For starters, we could use him on the wing as we are already thin and young there. For seconds, he's expiring after the season--so that's a plus with allowing us to use more of our own expiring contracts at the deadline.

 

[Jordan]

I wouldn't even say "bad" contract. In my mind, it was to be Evan Turner. For starters, we could use him on the wing as we are already thin and young there. For seconds, he's expiring after the season--so that's a plus with allowing us to use more expiring contracts at the deadline.

Evan Turner would actually be a really helpful playmaker on this team. I'd be good with that.

 

[dark2332]

Evan Turner would actually be a really helpful playmaker on this team. I'd be good with that.

Right, especially with two young guards who are learning to facilitate.

 

[sailfish]

Count me out on wanting Little. Three rookies is enough to incorporate. Something like this would work for me, though.

Portland gets: Kevin Love
Cleveland gets: Bad contract, Zach Collins, 2020 top-ten protected first, and a 2022 top-ten protected first.

Portland gets; Kevin Love
Cleveland gets: Bad contract, Zach Collins, 2020 second round pick, and an unprotected 2021 first

I like Little as a prospect. However, if the Blazers are intent on keeping him then what you propose is a nice alternative. I’d assume those first round picks would be no better than 25, which is where the Blazers drafted this year.

 

[Jordan]

I like Little as a prospect. However, if the Blazers are intent on keeping him then what you propose is a nice alternative. I’d assume those first round picks would be no better than 25, which is where the Blazers drafted this year.

I actually really like Little and am shocked he went as low as he did... But incorporating four rookies - as well as continuing to develop Sexton, Cedi, and Zizic - with a new coaching staff seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

[sailfish]

Does Love really need Frye to make LeBron-esque agenda Twitter comments for the Cavs to trade him? From all appearances, he has a great relationship with Koby and the front office and I can't imagine that he couldn't be transparent about a trade request, including desired destination(s).

If anything, as some have suggested, I see Frye's comments being directed at other organizations to help boost Love's value.

Who knows? Love just a signed a contract extension about a year ago and he may want not want to look ungrateful, by demanding a trade a year later. So, he has his buddy, Frye, tweet out something like this, which is merely a suggestion, rather than a demand. Everyone knows how close the two of them are, so the message is delivered to multiple parties. Heck, I even saw it on Hoopshype.

 

[Los216]

Count me out on wanting Little. Three rookies is enough to incorporate. Something like this would work for me, though.

Portland gets: Kevin Love
Cleveland gets: Bad contract, Zach Collins, 2020 top-ten protected first, and a 2022 top-ten protected first.

Portland gets; Kevin Love
Cleveland gets: Bad contract, Zach Collins, 2020 second round pick, and an unprotected 2021 first

I'd rather have Little and disagree on 3 rookies being too much to incorporate. We won't know if we hit on them for 2 maybe 3 seasons. I think one of the worst things a rebuilding team can do is take the approach that having too many rookies or young players is bad. When none of your young guys are proven there's nothing wrong with taking more swings at it. The cream will rise to the top. Much like I believe that Garland will establish himself as the clear answer at PG over Sexton I think if we acquired Little as well as Collins we'd see who the better fits are with the young guys on the roster.

Nas Little is really good value for what that POR pick would end up being next year. I think we can get an even better 1st round pick for TT or Clarkson if we failed to get one in a Love to POR trade.

 

[sailfish]

I actually really like Little and am shocked he went as low as he did... But incorporating four rookies - as well as continuing to develop Sexton, Cedi, and Zizic - with a new coaching staff seems like a recipe for disaster.

I assume there will be other trades and some of those young players may well be involved. I guess I’d rather have Little, who fell to #25, than a pick that will be 25 or lower in future drafts.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I'd rather have Little and disagree on 3 rookies being too much to incorporate. We won't know if we hit on them for 2 maybe 3 seasons. I think one of the worst things a rebuilding team can do is take the approach that having too many rookies or young players is bad. When none of your young guys are proven there's nothing wrong with taking more swings at it. The cream will rise to the top. Much like I believe that Garland will establish himself as the clear answer at PG over Sexton I think if we acquired Little as well as Collins we'd see who the better fits are with the young guys on the roster.

Nas Little is really good value for what that POR pick would end up being next year. I think we can get an even better 1st round pick for TT or Clarkson if we failed to get one in a Love to POR trade.

I think it's a really uneducated take to believe that talent eventually pans out no matter the circumstance. This isn't a video game where each player has a hidden potential rating that they'll meet in x number of years.

We've seen across all sports that coaching and development are critical in athletes' success. Increasing the number of rookies not only thins out the amount of development and coaching each one receives, but it also makes our situation worse, which leads to less development. It even removes a veteran player from the squad, who may be able to help the rookies along.

 

[Los216]

We should also pump the brakes on Cedi and Zizic. I think the team is comfortable going forward with LNJ obviously but if we acquire Collins from POR I think that says a lot about how they feel about Zizic. Cedi is entering a contract year and there's already going to be some competition in the pecking order so he hs to step up and win his position.

 

[Jordan]

I think it's a really uneducated take to believe that talent eventually pans out no matter the circumstance. This isn't a video game where each player has a hidden potential rating that they'll meet in x number of years.

We've seen across all sports that coaching and development are critical in athletes' success. Increasing the number of rookies not only thins out the amount of development and coaching each one receives, but it also makes our situation worse, which leads to less development. It even removes a veteran player from the squad, who may be able to help the rookies along.

I could not have said this any better^

 

[Los216]

I think it's a really uneducated take to believe that talent eventually pans out no matter the circumstance. This isn't a video game where each player has a hidden potential rating that they'll meet in x number of years.

We've seen across all sports that coaching and development are critical in athletes' success. Increasing the number of rookies not only thins out the amount of development and coaching each one receives, but it also makes our situation worse, which leads to less development. It even removes a veteran player from the squad, who may be able to help the rookies along.

What veteran players on this team are we looking at to help the rookies along? Love would be going out in a trade. JR is done. TT and Clarkson are the last two guys I'd be sending our young players to o get helped along. It's okay to admit that the main reason most of the veterans we have on this team are even here is because of their contract.

 

[Los216]

Look at last years Brooklyn Nets team. Their 3 most experienced guys were Jared Dudley, DeMarre Carroll and Ed Davis. They combined for 31 years of NBA experience. The season before that when they were the young scrappy team that finished with the 8th pick that we hope to be this season their 3 most experienced players were Carroll, Jeremy Lin, and Mozgov. They combined for 23 years experience in that 2017-2018 season.

If we were to do Love for Collins, Little and Turner and assuming we end up trading TT our 3 most experienced players would be Turner, Henson, and Delly. That's 22 years of NBA experience. Almost exactly what BKN had last year. So I don't buy the argument that we wouldn't be able to develop all of our young guys. In fact you could make an argument that they'd develop more without veterans playing meaningless minutes ahead of them.

We aren't going to win a lot of games next season. There should be plenty of minutes available for 4 rookies on this team next year. We know 3 of them can fill Channing, Love, and JR's roster spots. All it takes if for one more of our vets who are only here for their contracts at this point to get shipped out. Brandon Knight might not even get traded and can simply be stretched. We could even add another player to the Love deal to POR. We might actually have to since we'd be getting 3 players back anyway. We could easily add Zizic to that POR deal and we'd be at 15 guaranteed roster spots. Stretch Brandon Knight and we're back down to 14 and under the luxury tax. Trade JR to a team that will waive him and get back a future 1st and now we're way under the tax and have an additional asset and an additional roster spot. That gives us more flexibility in a future trade with Clarkson and TT which seems inevitable at this point.

Being way under the tax and having a future 1st round pick secured for JR while TT and Clarkson are still on the roster at the trade deadline will give us increased flexibility if we want to trade either of them to a contender at the deadline. There's already interest in them now. Same for Delly. Regardless what happens I wouldn't worry too much about have 4 rookies.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Look at last years Brooklyn Nets team. Their 3 most experienced guys were Jared Dudley, DeMarre Carroll and Ed Davis. They combined for 31 years of NBA experience. The season before that when they were the young scrappy team that finished with the 8th pick that we hope to be this season their 3 most experienced players were Carroll, Jeremy Lin, and Mozgov. They combined for 23 years experience in that 2017-2018 season.

If we were to do Love for Collins, Little and Turner and assuming we end up trading TT our 3 most experienced players would be Turner, Henson, and Delly. That's 22 years of NBA experience. Almost exactly what BKN had last year. So I don't buy the argument that we wouldn't be able to develop all of our young guys. In fact you could make an argument that they'd develop more without veterans playing meaningless minutes ahead of them.

We aren't going to win a lot of games next season. There should be plenty of minutes available for 4 rookies on this team next year. We know 3 of them can fill Channing, Love, and JR's roster spots. All it takes if for one more of our vets who are only here for their contracts at this point to get shipped out. Brandon Knight might not even get traded and can simply be stretched. We could even add another player to the Love deal to POR. We might actually have to since we'd be getting 3 players back anyway. We could easily add Zizic to that POR deal and we'd be at 15 guaranteed roster spots. Stretch Brandon Knight and we're back down to 14 and under the luxury tax. Trade JR to a team that will waive him and get back a future 1st and now we're way under the tax and have an additional asset and an additional roster spot. That gives us more flexibility in a future trade with Clarkson and TT which seems inevitable at this point.

Being way under the tax and having a future 1st round pick secured for JR while TT and Clarkson are still on the roster at the trade deadline will give us increased flexibility if we want to trade either of them to a contender at the deadline. There's already interest in them now. Same for Delly. Regardless what happens I wouldn't worry too much about have 4 rookies.

I do not believe the raw number of years summed up over your oldest 3 players has any bearing on this conversation.

You're conveniently ignoring " Increasing the number of rookies not only thins out the amount of development and coaching each one receives, but it also makes our situation worse."

You're also conveniently assuming that these veterans that wouldn't be on the roster because we added more rookies would be veterans who would also be ahead of the rookies in terms of playing time.

This isn't even beginning to discuss the value propositions, such as a future pick is probably going to return a more valuable player than a player picked around the same spot in this draft, which many claimed was weak. Or, the financial advantages of not having a glut of players all coming up for contract extensions at the exact same time... or the financial advantages of having a player on his rookie deal for longer during your contention window, rather than burning those valuable low-price years at the beginning.

Needless to say, I disagree with your take. If I'm moving Love, I'm targeting future assets--not Nassir Little, who went #25 in a weak class.

 

[Los216]

I do not believe the raw number of years summed up over your oldest 3 players has any bearing on this conversation.

You're conveniently ignoring " Increasing the number of rookies not only thins out the amount of development and coaching each one receives, but it also makes our situation worse."

You're also conveniently assuming that these veterans that wouldn't be on the roster because we added more rookies would be veterans who would also be ahead of the rookies in terms of playing time.

This isn't even beginning to discuss the value propositions, such as a future pick is probably going to return a more valuable player than a player picked around the same spot in this draft, which many claimed was weak. Or, the financial advantages of not having a glut of players all coming up for contract extensions at the exact same time... or the financial advantages of having a player on his rookie deal for longer during your contention window, rather than burning those valuable low-price years at the beginning.

Needless to say, I disagree with your take. If I'm moving Love, I'm targeting future assets--not Nassir Little, who went #25 in a weak class.

What's the gap between Nas Little and the 25th pick in the draft next season? Also how are we thinning out the development of our rookies? Are they only here for one season? And we are way too early in the rebuild and way to in need of talent for their contact extensions being at the same time for that to even be a concern. cedi is up for an extension next year. Should we avoid acquiring wing players who may get playing time? If Cedi is not the most valuable wing player on ur team next season then that's a problem for Cedi and not for the team. That's why you don't put a limit on investing in young talent. When you aren't signing FA's who aren't hometown kids you don't have the luxury to pass on adding prospects because you think you have too many.

Me personally, I do not believe that Cedi or Zizic have earned a spot on this team beyond next season. The only players who I fully expect to be on this team beyond next season are Garland, Windler, Porter Jr, and Nance. I would add Sexton to that group but with the team drafting Garland at #5 is do not believe his spot is safe. That said if you have to opportunity to choose between Nas Little who was rated higher than pick #25 or the projected 25th pick next year choosing Nas Little isn't a bad move for this team. You get a prospect a year early. Trading Kevin Love will not be our last chance at getting a 2020 1st round pick. There are other avenues to get one.

I'd also like to know which current players on this roster will be more important for the future of the team than Nas Little other than our 3 rookies? We have all of these expiring contracts that people believe are so valuable but having too many of them can be a problem if your goal is to get assets in return. It's likely that more of our expirings will expire than be traded for an asset. We're in a situation now where our best asset which is JR Smith's contract might actually just expire.