Koby Altman nailed, then failed to take breathalyzer…

["MVP"]

It's all part of it

PROS	CONS
Allen Trade/extension	Andre Drummond trade/buy-out
Sexton draft	Porter miss-handling
Garland Draft	Windler draft instead of Keldon Johnson
Okoro Draft	Kevin Love extension
Mobely Draft (so far)	John Beilein hire
Rubio Trade (on paper anyway)	Triston Thompson walking (function of Drummond trade)
'17-18 mid-season re-tool around LeBron	lack of vets to force internal competition
Wade/Stevens diamond in the rough finds	Irving trade
Larry Nance extension	Brodric Thomas with a roster spot

This is a very fair analysis IMO. Personally, I'd move the Tristan walking to the pros list -- we were never going to get real value for him and we avoided overpaying him. If we're evaluating Altman just from the rebuild, the Irving trade would also be removed entirely from the list.

The big blunders were the Love extension and the Beilein hire. The others are relatively minor negatives, and every team has plenty of those.

IMO, Altman has done a good job at accumulating talent––between the lottery picks and Allen trade––which is the most important part of a rebuild. The next step is forming a coherent team, and the jury is still out on whether or not Altman has that in him. We may still be another year of talent accumulation away from reaching that stage.

 

[sailfish]

It's all part of it

PROS	CONS
Allen Trade/extension	Andre Drummond trade/buy-out
Sexton draft	Porter miss-handling
Garland Draft	Windler draft instead of Keldon Johnson
Okoro Draft	Kevin Love extension
Mobely Draft (so far)	John Beilein hire
Rubio Trade (on paper anyway)	Triston Thompson walking (function of Drummond trade)
'17-18 mid-season re-tool around LeBron	lack of vets to force internal competition
Wade/Stevens diamond in the rough finds	Irving trade
Larry Nance extension	Brodric Thomas with a roster spot

Why would the Kyrie trade fall under the Cons? The Cavs won that trade as they have Sexton to show for it while the C’s have nothing. Kyrie matured into a nutjob anyways and we’re better off without him.

If the argument is the Cavs didn’t get enough for Kyrie, as I recall they weren’t getting great offers for him. I recall rumors of Bledsoe & a 1st being offered by Phoenix, which isn’t any better.

Also, I’d give Koby a pass on Bielein, as it appears Dan Gilbert heavily influenced that hire. Same goes for the Love extension.

Drummond & KPJ were low risk gambles worth taking that didn’t pan out.

 

[Cavatt]

This is a very fair analysis IMO. Personally, I'd move the Tristan walking to the pros list -- we were never going to get real value for him and we avoided overpaying him. If we're evaluating Altman just from the rebuild, the Irving trade would also be removed entirely from the list.

The big blunders were the Love extension and the Beilein hire. The others are relatively minor negatives, and every team has plenty of those.

IMO, Altman has done a good job at accumulating talent––between the lottery picks and Allen trade––which is the most important part of a rebuild. The next step is forming a coherent team, and the jury is still out on whether or not Altman has that in him. We may still be another year of talent accumulation away from reaching that stage.

Drummond ironincally kept us from keeping TT for another nostalgia contract like Loves. We would have payed more than Boston is my guess. Totally agree with you on that one.

I also agree about maybe being a year away from a coherent team. Starting 5 under 24 says "rough start to the year". Collin, Darius and Allen aren't the worst young players though and all have played a lot of games already. We have gone this far with Koby so far. IMO he should be allowed to sign his 1st drafted player of the rebuild to his second contract before calling it quits. I'm not happy with any of his bedside manner or handling of personalities including Beilein, but he can identify good players throughout the draft and undrafted. Wade, Stevens count as fringe NBA guys. The worst he has earned would be a President of Basketball operations who had more history managing NBA players while he dealt more with draft stuff.

 

[inliner311]

Why would the Kyrie trade fall under the Cons? The Cavs won that trade as they have Sexton to show for it while the C’s have nothing. Kyrie matured into a nutjob anyways and we’re better off without him.

If the argument is the Cavs didn’t get enough for Kyrie, as I recall they weren’t getting great offers for him. I recall rumors of Bledsoe & a 1st being offered by Phoenix, which isn’t any better.

Also, I’d give Koby a pass on Bielein, as it appears Dan Gilbert heavily influenced that hire. Same goes for the Love extension.

Drummond & KPJ were low risk gambles worth taking that didn’t pan out.

Koby and Gansey were the ones who decided to go after Beilein. Gansey has alot of connections to Beilein and lived with the Beileins at one point. Koby met Beilein at Gansey's wedding and that's how they started their relationship. This has been chronicled in some articles after Beilein was hired.

Gilbert might have been on board with Beilein but Koby and Gansey seem like the driving force for the hire. I could even see Koby and Gansey selling that they might be able to get Beilein eventually as a reason to promote them.

 

[LeeBuckeye]

Koby and Gansey were the ones who decided to go after Beilein. Gansey has alot of connections to Beilein and lived with the Beileins at one point. Koby met Beilein at Gansey's wedding and that's how they started their relationship. This has been chronicled in some articles after Beilein was hired.

Gilbert might have been on board with Beilein but Koby and Gansey seem like the driving force for the hire. I could even see Koby and Gansey selling that they might be able to get Beilein eventually as a reason to promote them.

This was proven false by Dan Gilbert himself. Koby pushed the Beilein hire so it correctly in the cons category.

Cleveland Cavaliers Owner Dan Gilbert talks coaches, front office, LeBron James and Kyrie Irving – Terry Pluto

Cleveland Cavaliers Owner Dan Gilbert says front office pushed for John Beilein as coach, and then he fell in love with the idea.

www.cleveland.com

“This narrative that I drove this (Beilein hiring) is wrong,” said Gilbert. “A few weeks ago, Koby brought up John to me. I obviously knew who he was, but I never met him."Koby put the bug in my ear, and I became very interested.”After Tuesday’s press conference, Gilbert and I talked at length.He explained how Altman had a group of eight front office people meet with Beilin.

“All eight loved him," said Gilbert. "All eight wanted to hire him. They were polled individually. That caught my attention. This was a week before I met with John.”

 

[sailfish]

This was proven false by Dan Gilbert himself. Koby pushed the Beilein hire so it correctly in the cons category.

Cleveland Cavaliers Owner Dan Gilbert talks coaches, front office, LeBron James and Kyrie Irving – Terry Pluto

Cleveland Cavaliers Owner Dan Gilbert says front office pushed for John Beilein as coach, and then he fell in love with the idea.

www.cleveland.com

“This narrative that I drove this (Beilein hiring) is wrong,” said Gilbert. “A few weeks ago, Koby brought up John to me. I obviously knew who he was, but I never met him."Koby put the bug in my ear, and I became very interested.”After Tuesday’s press conference, Gilbert and I talked at length.He explained how Altman had a group of eight front office people meet with Beilin.

“All eight loved him," said Gilbert. "All eight wanted to hire him. They were polled individually. That caught my attention. This was a week before I met with John.”

I’ll say this, John Bielein is a helluva coach, who has had success at every stop, the Cavaliers aside. Two things killed him here- the ‘thugs’ comment and veterans, like Kevin Love, not accepting his coaching style and basically acting like the spoiled millionaires they are.

I can see why the move was made- a coach that is strong in fundamentals & teaching, working with a young team. That makes sense. It just didn’t work out, as you can’t coach NBA millionaires the same way you can college kids.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

This was proven false by Dan Gilbert himself. Koby pushed the Beilein hire so it correctly in the cons category.

Cleveland Cavaliers Owner Dan Gilbert talks coaches, front office, LeBron James and Kyrie Irving – Terry Pluto

Cleveland Cavaliers Owner Dan Gilbert says front office pushed for John Beilein as coach, and then he fell in love with the idea.

www.cleveland.com

“This narrative that I drove this (Beilein hiring) is wrong,” said Gilbert. “A few weeks ago, Koby brought up John to me. I obviously knew who he was, but I never met him."Koby put the bug in my ear, and I became very interested.”After Tuesday’s press conference, Gilbert and I talked at length.He explained how Altman had a group of eight front office people meet with Beilin.

“All eight loved him," said Gilbert. "All eight wanted to hire him. They were polled individually. That caught my attention. This was a week before I met with John.”

"No, seriously guys, I don't meddle. My GM makes the calls. He picked the big name college coach from Michigan."

I mean, buy Dan's bullshit if you want. There's a reason that piece got written.

 

[Nphan]

I’ll say this, John Bielein is a helluva coach, who has had success at every stop, the Cavaliers aside. Two things killed him here- the ‘thugs’ comment and veterans, like Kevin Love, not accepting his coaching style and basically acting like the spoiled millionaires they are.

I can see why the move was made- a coaching strong in fundamentals & teaching, working with a young team. It just didn’t work out, as you can’t coach NBA millionaires the same way you can college kids.

I noticed that Love kills a lot of coaching careers before they even blossom. Blatt comes to mind and of course Beilein. Not sure if its good or bad though.

 

[cavsfever]

Can I just say that there is no rational argument that Koby has “nailed” the rebuild? I mean, none. The only question is whether he avoidably fucked it up.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Can I just say that there is no rational argument that Koby has “nailed” the rebuild? I mean, none. The only question is whether he avoidably fucked it up.

I think he's done an adequate job with regards to talent acquisition.

I think he's lacking when it comes to leading a franchise.

I hope we either replace him, or add someone in who can fill his deficiencies.

 

[sailfish]

I noticed that Love kills a lot of coaching careers before they even blossom. Blatt comes to mind and of course Beilein. Not sure if its good or bad though.

Yeah, Blatt is another very good coach, who basically got run out of town. Once you lose the support of the players and without strong management, you’re done…

 

[sailfish]

I think he's done an adequate job with regards to talent acquisition.

I think he's lacking when it comes to leading a franchise.

I hope we either replace him, or add someone in who can fill his deficiencies.

Be careful what you wish for. Remember the days of Ted Stephen, Jim Paxson, & Chris Grant? This franchise has had some crappy GM’s and, with a few possible exceptions, Koby has done quite a nice job. His draft choices have all been solid, with the exception of picking Windler over Keldon Johnson. Then again, I heard the Windler pick was heavily influenced by Bielein.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Be careful what you wish for. Remember the days of Ted Stephen, Jim Paxson, & Chris Grant? This franchise has had some crappy GM’s and, with a few possible exceptions, Koby has done quite a nice job. His draft choices have all been solid, with the exception of picking Windler over Keldon Johnson. Then again, I heard the Windler pick was heavily influenced by Bielein.

I'm well aware that things could always be worse.

When I'm dealt a poor poker hand, I don't play it out of fear that I could get dealt 7 2 off next hand--I fold it because it's not a hand that's capable of winning.

I also specifically said that my issue is not with talent acquisition--so I'm not sure how a lukewarm endorsement of his drafting counters anything.

I think the best path would be to bring in someone above Koby who can run the organization from a leadership standpoint, and leave Koby to the player evaluation and acquisition side of things. That can be a difficult needle to thread.

 

[sailfish]

I'm well aware that things could always be worse.

When I'm dealt a poor poker hand, I don't play it out of fear that I could get dealt 7 2 off next hand--I fold it because it's not a hand that's capable of winning.

I also specifically said that my issue is not with talent acquisition--so I'm not sure how a lukewarm endorsement of his drafting counters anything.

I think the best path would be to bring in someone above Koby who can run the organization from a leadership standpoint, and leave Koby to the player evaluation and acquisition side of things. That can be a difficult needle to thread.

If you don’t believe Koby has done a good job and should be replaced, I’d ask two questions:

1) which moves that he made are ‘fireable’ offenses?
2) who do you propose hiring either to replace him or to put above him that would be a better option? Keep in mind that Dan Gilbert has never shown a willingness to spend big on front office executives, preferring to go with young, up & comers.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

If you don’t believe Koby has done a good job and should be replaced, I’d ask two questions:

1) which moves that he made are ‘fireable’ offenses?
2) who do you propose hiring either to replace him or to put above him that would be a better option? Keep in mind that Dan Gilbert has never shown a willingness to spend big on front office executives, preferring to go with young, up & comers.

I'd add to this all the laments we heard when Dan didn't keep Griff...even though it seemed that Griff didn't want to stay in the first place. But after seeing what Griff has done in NO, how many people would be willing to do a straight-up Altman for Griffin trade today? I sure as hell wouldn't.

That's the problem with the grass is always greener approach -- sometimes, it just isn't. For me, Koby has been good enough that I don't want to turn in all my cards for a completely new hand. I'd rather play this one out for longer and see how it goes.